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Suzuki (S.J) v/s Land Rover (hybrid)
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Tom.H
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Suzuki (S.J) v/s Land Rover (hybrid) Reply with quote

Hi
I am thinking of buying a 4x4 but can’t decide what to get.
I am hopping to be doing some of trials at the awdc, and after going to a few I have decided that there are two main car’s that are used
• Suzuki S.J
• Land Rover/Range Rover (hybrid)(defender)(bobtail)
Just have a few questions about each of these cars.

1. After watching both land rover and Suzuki at some section there driving style seems to be far different. The Land rover owners seem to drive through section far slower and with less engine revs when the Suzuki drivers seem to drive completely different. If anybody could tell why the driving style is so different it would be very useful.

2. How easy are both land rover and Suzuki to work on and repair

3. Also if anybody could tell me what they have done to there Suzuki or land rover or what they got for there money and also what problems they had with what they brought it would be extremely useful.

4. Final if you could recommend any reasons towards or against each car it would be greats

Whooops forgot to say that my budget is £3000 max

Thanks
Tom.
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webber1982
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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Location: St. Helens



PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol check the landie forum just posted there.
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Tom.H
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks
Didn’t know witch one to post on because I really concerns both Suzuki’s and land rovers so posted on both

Sorry if this is not allowed

Tom
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webber1982
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol not too sure cant see a problem myself but in here ur gonna get buy a zuke and in the lr forum ur gonna get buy a L Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad R Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad lol
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tango-zuke-5
Articulating


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Odometer: 567
Location: felixstowe


1981 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

suzuki's are easyer to maintian upgrade and repair also light and less tax
were as landrovers are complete opisite!! Laughing

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(pete)
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Joined: 19 Nov 2006
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Location: aldershot



PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it all depends on what YOU want
Suzuki-
is a good all rounder and cheap as chips parts are easy to find and they are so basic to mod and also to fix most parts if you can weld can be made for next to nothing as for you question why are driving styles so different most land rovers used are diesel so provide a lot more torque in lower rev ranges where as Suzuki's are petrol so you have to give them a bit more BUT........ there a hell of a lot lighter and 9 times outta 10 have a good turning circle too

land rover-
again a good 4x4 to own but a lot more expensive to buy and maintain but parts are easy to find most 4x4mags have a ton of land rover tuning places in them most have a diesel lump that as i said before is very good you wont have any trouble with water unlike a petrol but there are ways to water proof them too

talking from owning both i would go for a zuki cheap to buy easy to work on easy to drive and they always put a smile on you face too but have a look round and best of luck with what ever you buy

oh and welcome to the mad house Wink

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Tom.H
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also forgot say that I am hopping to two the car tow the car and therefore the tax and insurance cost does not matter
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cynic-al
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Joined: 14 Nov 2006
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Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. After watching both land rover and Suzuki at some section there driving style seems to be far different. The Land rover owners seem to drive through section far slower and with less engine revs when the Suzuki drivers seem to drive completely different. If anybody could tell why the driving style is so different it would be very useful.

Suzukis have small engines with less low down grunt and so need the revs to get the power. Also if you don't fiddle with the suspension there isnt much flex so you need the momentum to get over the obsticle otherwise you just cock a wheel and lose drive, another way is to lock the diffs. Remember suzukis dont have a centre diff so driving a suzuki is the same as driving a landy with diff lock engaged. Also the gearing in low box on a suzuki is quite high so unless to lower it with a rock lobster or different diffs its actually difficult to drive slowly. Especially when you have put bigger wheels on.

2. How easy are both land rover and Suzuki to work on and repair. Both are quite straight forward but remember everything on a landy is bigger and heavier so generally harder work on. I fitted a gearbox and a transfer box on my own without jacks, not sure i could do that on a landy. also any fabrication you do needs to be stronger on a landy.

3. Also if anybody could tell me what they have done to there Suzuki or land rover or what they got for there money and also what problems they had with what they brought it would be extremely useful.

Bought mine already modified, saved a lot of money, i have reciepts for 4 times what i paid for the car. However you also buy other peoples mistakes when you do this so expect to have to do some tinkering. I would buy a zuki, put bigger wheels on, improve the suspension somehow (lots of options), lower the gearing, fit some protection and take off the trim that will get ripped off then use it to see what else you want to change. With your budget you could easily do this and have over a thousand pounds left for future mods.

4. Final if you could recommend any reasons towards or against each car it would be greats

i like suzukis and landys but i chose suzuki over landrover because of;
1. price to buy and run, i can use mine for a full play day on less than £15 of fuel
2. ease to work on
3. price of spares (especially used spares, i got 2 tf boxes to do the rocklobster for £30! and an alternator for £15)
4. lighter to tow
5. they seem relatively unbreakable
6. doesn't take up much space to store
7. lots of off the shelf add ons
8. lots of helpful people on here
9. i bought mine for a toy and it does exactly what i want. However there is a group of landrover owners that don't like you as a suzuki owner, often they will not let you enter their competitions etc, you can either find other competitions or buy a landy and join in with them. depends what you want to do!

Whooops forgot to say that my budget is £3000 max

£3000 will get you a lot of suzuki but not so much landy
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Tiny One
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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Location: Aberhonddu



PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

land rovers have a ell of a lot of torque at low revs whether it be a 200tdi or 2.25petrol or a 3.9efi v8 all of them are bound to have a lot more torque lo down compared to an sj,

for example the lr's mainly produce their peak torque at 2000 rpm whereas a sj is at 4800rpm so to get the most out of the engine you have to rev it therefore get over obstructions Laughing ,

the reason suzuki's are so fast is because they have to rev and they can't lose momentum by slipping the clutch most people decide to reduce the gearing which is a lot cheaper than reducing the gearing in a land rover,

obviously suzuki parts are dead light most things take 1-2people that is engine axles etc it may take 3-4 to lift the chassis:shock: Laughing Laughing

repairing is just as easy and parts are dead cheap IF you have to replace things!

the price difference on mods is incredible you can get an ell of a suzuki for 3k,
there are tons of suspension and engine and drivetrain modifications available for the suzuki more than land rovers will ever have in the suspension range due to the suzuki light weight
Wink

if i was you i would get a 410 as the rev a lot more freely and are smaller and lighter (apart from the engine it is heavier! Confused )

a suzuki is lighter ,smaller , tighter turning circle, easily modifiable, cheap, easy to repair,

all this means a good trialler.

Wink

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Tom.H
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for getting back to me
I understand that a land rover may be more costly to mod but if you buy something already moded and ready to trial I think you get a good deal

Example on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-HYBRID-V8-3-5-...dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Tom
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webber1982
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Odometer: 367
Location: St. Helens



PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there such thing as a semi locked diff i know u can have diff locks but there either locked or un locked limited slip is diffrent again so what is semi locked ???
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Tom.H
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve been having a look on Rhino Rays website and have seen that they have a suspension conversion for Suzuki S.J
http://www.rhinorays.co.uk/suspension.htm
http://www.rhinorays.co.uk/ART/coil_7291.jpg
http://www.rhinorays.co.uk/ART/coil_7292.jpg
http://www.rhinorays.co.uk/coilset.htm

If anyone could tell me if this conversion is a good idea or if they have got the conversion on there car and what it like it would be extremely useful

Tom
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Nathaniel
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coil spring conversions are usually done by the more extreme guys,

Coils offer a smoother, more durable ride than leafs springs, they may also flex better.

However, unless you are doing the work yourself you can spend much more than you paid for the car on the suspension alone!

£3000 to spend on a Suzuki!!

Yu could buy a monster for that!

Have a look at challenge specced SJ's Should get one already coiled and difflocked for that.

If not I would spend a lot of time looking for a decent unmodified example.

I assume you are new to offroading.

I think you are best starting with an unmodified car, then as your driving progesses you can start modifying the vehicle yourself, Then you know exactly how it works, how to fix it and that any work you to is upto the correct standard.

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Nat

If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out
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Nathaniel
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternately Matt is selling his

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=9213

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Nat

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Tom.H
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Thanks for your advice
As said before I real dislike leaf springs and this is why I am thinking of buying a land rover.

Quote:
Have a look at challenge specced SJ's Should get one already coiled and difflocked for that


Could you please tell me what are the challenge specced sj or could you send me a link.

Thanks
Tom
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stevieboy118
Articulating


Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Odometer: 610
Location: Plymouth, Devon


1985 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom.H wrote:
Hi

Thanks for your advice
As said before I real dislike leaf springs and this is why I am thinking of buying a land rover.

Thanks
Tom


What's the cause of your leaf dislike?
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Tom.H
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don’t really know, I just think there not good on a 4x4

just in my view
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4x4maddog
Articulating


Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Odometer: 812
Location: edinburgh


1993 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

suzuki small light and cheap and high reving Very Happy may get where a l*** R**** cant or would sink L*** R**** big heavy expensive and got low down grunt, you pay your money and take your choice get more zuki for 3k than L*** R**** and it prob wont let you down as much,

watever you get you will get stuck and some1 in the opposite make will have to pull you out but thats life Very Happy

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Tim Pink
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Odometer: 1938




PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have competed in both, trials & comp safaris, simple answer to your question is;
For £3k spend you will get a more capable trialler if you go down the Suzuki route. Modified parts are a lot cheaper & the base vehicle is a lot cheaper as well. A good base 90 will be IRO £2k (anything cheaper will be a basket case!) this leaves £1k for mods which cost at least 50% more on a LR. A decent 413 will be IRO £1k this leaves £2K for mods.

I am not biased, I have 2 Landrovers as well as the SJ (that is quite an admission on here!) both are heavily modified but I know what puts a smile on my face when I drive it

Tim
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stevieboy118
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Joined: 11 Oct 2004
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1985 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom.H wrote:
Don’t really know, I just think there not good on a 4x4

just in my view


Andy B. might disagree Smile





Even standard SJs are effective offroad.

You can do amazing things to an SJ.
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Tom.H
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a Suzuki would do better for what I want, but I am still in a problem of what sort of Suzuki I should get.
As I have said many times before I am really want it to have coiler suspension on it, but after finding out that the Suzuki jimny has coiler suspension I am now confused again on what car t get.

• Suzuki S.J with coil conversion on it
• Suzuki Jimny
• Something else

Just asking if anybody could recommend one of these cars or give me some details about what’s best for doing trials in.

Thanks
Tom
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4x4maddog
Articulating


Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Odometer: 812
Location: edinburgh


1993 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noticed you got alot more replys on here than in L*** R**** section? maybe they are in there garage Very Happy for trails think your best with a sj mate live axels etc and lots of stuff to mod them jimny gonna cost more to get and mod and bit of a waste if your towing to events.

i had a samurai and still miss it Sad

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scooter_scum
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1990 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you dislike leafs but want you want spring then get a tastly modded vitara there great and i have just bought another one to offroad Wink after i have modded it that is Wink
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chunkyhaggis
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm new to offroading

been driving lr's for years
but they've never given me a grin like my sami
if its thrills your after, and that's what i think offroading is all about
can't beat Suzuki

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big_patrol
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with whats been said above both are great cars but if you put 3k in a zuk you will be sporting one of the best examples. 3k in a landrover and you will still have a massive shopping list of mods you will want/need to follow the zuk you should have bought.
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Tiny One
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i spose for 3k you could coil it easy
coils all round problem solved
can be done for under a grand Wink

personally leaf springs is what makes an sj an sj and andy b has proved you can have great flex

so far at the trials
scorpion challenge (one of the top events in the country) steve lait and nick slades sj413 was on +3 lifted springs and that was it suspension wise

the trial i go to the open class leader is a trayback 1.6 vitara engined standard suspension (leaves) sj410 this beats a series bodied range rover with uprated suspension (otherwise known to me as the "fog") Laughing

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Kitesurf
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not being biased here. I own a Toyota and a Suzuki. My brother spent years throwing ££££££'s at Landrovers and I have had a drive of quite a few of his. My brother is now a Suzuki convert. I love the Suzuki because I can pull it out of the garage by hand, push it back in and lift most of the parts without help (thanks to Paul, Artful Dodger for giving me a lift with the engine and gearbox).

I love my Toyota to bits but it is my daily drive and when I break something it costs a lot more to replace than if I broke the equivalent on the SJ.

My perfect Suzuki would be a Sammy with a 1.9L Peugeot or VW diesel engine, Rock lobster transfer box( or twin gearbox) and 33" to 35" tyres.

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Toecutter
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look at the SPAM Zuke pics / videos at Kirton, that's coiled and pretty much the dogs nadgers.

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=8021&highlight=

It will show you what the mighty Zuki can be turned into, and even in bog standard form they're pretty good. Wink
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Luke Bailey
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Joined: 23 Jul 2005
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Location: Moorside Oldham Lancashire


1989 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that rhino ray picture you posted is a range rover with Suzuki body on top.

Suzuki coil sonversion....

incarnation one:



incarnation 2:



jimny coils.

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Kitesurf
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Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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Location: Luton, Beds


1994 Toyota Surf

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke,
With all due respect, the only bits of your truck that are going to be Suzuki are the chassis and the cab/front end. I am in no way taking away from you that you are doing the absolute ******** of a job on your truck. It ain't going to be a Suzuki at the end of the project, although it will keep the Suzuki shape and run a Vauxhall/Isuzu engine. It will, however, be a top build and a credit to you, I am sure.

Tom's original question was Landrover or Suzuki. I would say Suzuki, at beginners level, because of the relatively cheap parts/mods available. The general superiority complex of landy owners will suggest that, unless you spend at least four figures on your truck, it won't be worth a look.

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