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Tom.H Guest
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: Suzuki (S.J) v/s Land Rover (hybrid)
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Hi
I am thinking of buying a 4x4 but can’t decide what to get.
I am hopping to be doing some of trials at the awdc, and after going to a few I have decided that there are two main car’s that are used
• Suzuki S.J
• Land Rover/Range Rover (hybrid)(defender)(bobtail)
Just have a few questions about each of these cars.
1. After watching both land rover and Suzuki at some section there driving style seems to be far different. The Land rover owners seem to drive through section far slower and with less engine revs when the Suzuki drivers seem to drive completely different. If anybody could tell why the driving style is so different it would be very useful.
2. How easy are both land rover and Suzuki to work on and repair
3. Also if anybody could tell me what they have done to there Suzuki or land rover or what they got for there money and also what problems they had with what they brought it would be extremely useful.
4. Final if you could recommend any reasons towards or against each car it would be greats
Whooops forgot to say that my budget is £3000 max
Thanks
Tom.
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webber1982 Just got MTs
Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Odometer: 367 Location: St. Helens
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject:
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lol check the landie forum just posted there.
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Tom.H Guest
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject:
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Thanks
Didn’t know witch one to post on because I really concerns both Suzuki’s and land rovers so posted on both
Sorry if this is not allowed
Tom
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webber1982 Just got MTs
Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Odometer: 367 Location: St. Helens
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject:
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lol not too sure cant see a problem myself but in here ur gonna get buy a zuke and in the lr forum ur gonna get buy a L R lol
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tango-zuke-5 Articulating
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Odometer: 567 Location: felixstowe
1981 Suzuki LJ
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject:
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suzuki's are easyer to maintian upgrade and repair also light and less tax
were as landrovers are complete opisite!!
__________________________________ r.i.p richard burns and colin mccrae
difflocker number 6567 |
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(pete) Mud Obsessed
Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Odometer: 5806 Location: aldershot
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject:
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well it all depends on what YOU want
Suzuki-
is a good all rounder and cheap as chips parts are easy to find and they are so basic to mod and also to fix most parts if you can weld can be made for next to nothing as for you question why are driving styles so different most land rovers used are diesel so provide a lot more torque in lower rev ranges where as Suzuki's are petrol so you have to give them a bit more BUT........ there a hell of a lot lighter and 9 times outta 10 have a good turning circle too
land rover-
again a good 4x4 to own but a lot more expensive to buy and maintain but parts are easy to find most 4x4mags have a ton of land rover tuning places in them most have a diesel lump that as i said before is very good you wont have any trouble with water unlike a petrol but there are ways to water proof them too
talking from owning both i would go for a zuki cheap to buy easy to work on easy to drive and they always put a smile on you face too but have a look round and best of luck with what ever you buy
oh and welcome to the mad house
__________________________________ X-RATED 4x4 systems |
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Tom.H Guest
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject:
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Also forgot say that I am hopping to two the car tow the car and therefore the tax and insurance cost does not matter
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cynic-al Mud Obsessed
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Odometer: 6062 Location: scunthorpe
1989 Suzuki SJ
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject:
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1. After watching both land rover and Suzuki at some section there driving style seems to be far different. The Land rover owners seem to drive through section far slower and with less engine revs when the Suzuki drivers seem to drive completely different. If anybody could tell why the driving style is so different it would be very useful.
Suzukis have small engines with less low down grunt and so need the revs to get the power. Also if you don't fiddle with the suspension there isnt much flex so you need the momentum to get over the obsticle otherwise you just cock a wheel and lose drive, another way is to lock the diffs. Remember suzukis dont have a centre diff so driving a suzuki is the same as driving a landy with diff lock engaged. Also the gearing in low box on a suzuki is quite high so unless to lower it with a rock lobster or different diffs its actually difficult to drive slowly. Especially when you have put bigger wheels on.
2. How easy are both land rover and Suzuki to work on and repair. Both are quite straight forward but remember everything on a landy is bigger and heavier so generally harder work on. I fitted a gearbox and a transfer box on my own without jacks, not sure i could do that on a landy. also any fabrication you do needs to be stronger on a landy.
3. Also if anybody could tell me what they have done to there Suzuki or land rover or what they got for there money and also what problems they had with what they brought it would be extremely useful.
Bought mine already modified, saved a lot of money, i have reciepts for 4 times what i paid for the car. However you also buy other peoples mistakes when you do this so expect to have to do some tinkering. I would buy a zuki, put bigger wheels on, improve the suspension somehow (lots of options), lower the gearing, fit some protection and take off the trim that will get ripped off then use it to see what else you want to change. With your budget you could easily do this and have over a thousand pounds left for future mods.
4. Final if you could recommend any reasons towards or against each car it would be greats
i like suzukis and landys but i chose suzuki over landrover because of;
1. price to buy and run, i can use mine for a full play day on less than £15 of fuel
2. ease to work on
3. price of spares (especially used spares, i got 2 tf boxes to do the rocklobster for £30! and an alternator for £15)
4. lighter to tow
5. they seem relatively unbreakable
6. doesn't take up much space to store
7. lots of off the shelf add ons
8. lots of helpful people on here
9. i bought mine for a toy and it does exactly what i want. However there is a group of landrover owners that don't like you as a suzuki owner, often they will not let you enter their competitions etc, you can either find other competitions or buy a landy and join in with them. depends what you want to do!
Whooops forgot to say that my budget is £3000 max
£3000 will get you a lot of suzuki but not so much landy
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Tiny One Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Odometer: 3168 Location: Aberhonddu
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject:
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land rovers have a ell of a lot of torque at low revs whether it be a 200tdi or 2.25petrol or a 3.9efi v8 all of them are bound to have a lot more torque lo down compared to an sj,
for example the lr's mainly produce their peak torque at 2000 rpm whereas a sj is at 4800rpm so to get the most out of the engine you have to rev it therefore get over obstructions ,
the reason suzuki's are so fast is because they have to rev and they can't lose momentum by slipping the clutch most people decide to reduce the gearing which is a lot cheaper than reducing the gearing in a land rover,
obviously suzuki parts are dead light most things take 1-2people that is engine axles etc it may take 3-4 to lift the chassis:shock:
repairing is just as easy and parts are dead cheap IF you have to replace things!
the price difference on mods is incredible you can get an ell of a suzuki for 3k,
there are tons of suspension and engine and drivetrain modifications available for the suzuki more than land rovers will ever have in the suspension range due to the suzuki light weight
if i was you i would get a 410 as the rev a lot more freely and are smaller and lighter (apart from the engine it is heavier! )
a suzuki is lighter ,smaller , tighter turning circle, easily modifiable, cheap, easy to repair,
all this means a good trialler.
__________________________________ "Blind as a welders dog!" |
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Tom.H Guest
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webber1982 Just got MTs
Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Odometer: 367 Location: St. Helens
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject:
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is there such thing as a semi locked diff i know u can have diff locks but there either locked or un locked limited slip is diffrent again so what is semi locked ???
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Tom.H Guest
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Nathaniel Difflock Royalty
Joined: 13 May 2003 Odometer: 17901 Location: North, North Yorkshire
1979 Suzuki LJ
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject:
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Coil spring conversions are usually done by the more extreme guys,
Coils offer a smoother, more durable ride than leafs springs, they may also flex better.
However, unless you are doing the work yourself you can spend much more than you paid for the car on the suspension alone!
£3000 to spend on a Suzuki!!
Yu could buy a monster for that!
Have a look at challenge specced SJ's Should get one already coiled and difflocked for that.
If not I would spend a lot of time looking for a decent unmodified example.
I assume you are new to offroading.
I think you are best starting with an unmodified car, then as your driving progesses you can start modifying the vehicle yourself, Then you know exactly how it works, how to fix it and that any work you to is upto the correct standard.
__________________________________ Nat
If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out |
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Nathaniel Difflock Royalty
Joined: 13 May 2003 Odometer: 17901 Location: North, North Yorkshire
1979 Suzuki LJ
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Tom.H Guest
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject:
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Hi
Thanks for your advice
As said before I real dislike leaf springs and this is why I am thinking of buying a land rover.
Quote: | Have a look at challenge specced SJ's Should get one already coiled and difflocked for that |
Could you please tell me what are the challenge specced sj or could you send me a link.
Thanks
Tom
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stevieboy118 Articulating
Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Odometer: 610 Location: Plymouth, Devon
1985 Suzuki SJ
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject:
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Tom.H wrote: | Hi
Thanks for your advice
As said before I real dislike leaf springs and this is why I am thinking of buying a land rover.
Thanks
Tom |
What's the cause of your leaf dislike?
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Tom.H Guest
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject:
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Don’t really know, I just think there not good on a 4x4
just in my view
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4x4maddog Articulating
Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Odometer: 812 Location: edinburgh
1993 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject:
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suzuki small light and cheap and high reving may get where a l*** R**** cant or would sink L*** R**** big heavy expensive and got low down grunt, you pay your money and take your choice get more zuki for 3k than L*** R**** and it prob wont let you down as much,
watever you get you will get stuck and some1 in the opposite make will have to pull you out but thats life
__________________________________ ITS ONE LIFE, DRIVE IT! |
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Tim Pink Off-Road Guru
Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Odometer: 1938
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject:
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I have competed in both, trials & comp safaris, simple answer to your question is;
For £3k spend you will get a more capable trialler if you go down the Suzuki route. Modified parts are a lot cheaper & the base vehicle is a lot cheaper as well. A good base 90 will be IRO £2k (anything cheaper will be a basket case!) this leaves £1k for mods which cost at least 50% more on a LR. A decent 413 will be IRO £1k this leaves £2K for mods.
I am not biased, I have 2 Landrovers as well as the SJ (that is quite an admission on here!) both are heavily modified but I know what puts a smile on my face when I drive it
Tim
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stevieboy118 Articulating
Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Odometer: 610 Location: Plymouth, Devon
1985 Suzuki SJ
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject:
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Tom.H wrote: | Don’t really know, I just think there not good on a 4x4
just in my view |
Andy B. might disagree
Even standard SJs are effective offroad.
You can do amazing things to an SJ.
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Tom.H Guest
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject:
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I think a Suzuki would do better for what I want, but I am still in a problem of what sort of Suzuki I should get.
As I have said many times before I am really want it to have coiler suspension on it, but after finding out that the Suzuki jimny has coiler suspension I am now confused again on what car t get.
• Suzuki S.J with coil conversion on it
• Suzuki Jimny
• Something else
Just asking if anybody could recommend one of these cars or give me some details about what’s best for doing trials in.
Thanks
Tom
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4x4maddog Articulating
Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Odometer: 812 Location: edinburgh
1993 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject:
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noticed you got alot more replys on here than in L*** R**** section? maybe they are in there garage for trails think your best with a sj mate live axels etc and lots of stuff to mod them jimny gonna cost more to get and mod and bit of a waste if your towing to events.
i had a samurai and still miss it
__________________________________ ITS ONE LIFE, DRIVE IT! |
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scooter_scum Off-Road Guru
Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Odometer: 1917 Location: middlesbrough
1990 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject:
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if you dislike leafs but want you want spring then get a tastly modded vitara there great and i have just bought another one to offroad after i have modded it that is
__________________________________ VITARA FOR SALE PLUS SPARES RECOVERY GEAR ECT
NO SILLY OFFERS THANKS
MAY SWAP FOR HAM RADIO EQUIPMENT |
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chunkyhaggis Off-Road Guru
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Odometer: 1008 Location: swindon,wilts
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject:
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I'm new to offroading
been driving lr's for years
but they've never given me a grin like my sami
if its thrills your after, and that's what i think offroading is all about
can't beat Suzuki
__________________________________ Hmmmmmmm....the haggis is chunky with this one
THE ANGELS HAVE THE PHONE BOX
Melior quam a terra erro !
http://madraam.webs.com/apps/blog/
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ |
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big_patrol Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Odometer: 2620 Location: Rossendale
1998 Nissan patrol
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject:
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I have to agree with whats been said above both are great cars but if you put 3k in a zuk you will be sporting one of the best examples. 3k in a landrover and you will still have a massive shopping list of mods you will want/need to follow the zuk you should have bought.
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Tiny One Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Odometer: 3168 Location: Aberhonddu
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject:
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i spose for 3k you could coil it easy
coils all round problem solved
can be done for under a grand
personally leaf springs is what makes an sj an sj and andy b has proved you can have great flex
so far at the trials
scorpion challenge (one of the top events in the country) steve lait and nick slades sj413 was on +3 lifted springs and that was it suspension wise
the trial i go to the open class leader is a trayback 1.6 vitara engined standard suspension (leaves) sj410 this beats a series bodied range rover with uprated suspension (otherwise known to me as the "fog")
__________________________________ "Blind as a welders dog!" |
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Kitesurf Difflock Royalty
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Odometer: 14197 Location: Luton, Beds
1994 Toyota Surf
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject:
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I am not being biased here. I own a Toyota and a Suzuki. My brother spent years throwing ££££££'s at Landrovers and I have had a drive of quite a few of his. My brother is now a Suzuki convert. I love the Suzuki because I can pull it out of the garage by hand, push it back in and lift most of the parts without help (thanks to Paul, Artful Dodger for giving me a lift with the engine and gearbox).
I love my Toyota to bits but it is my daily drive and when I break something it costs a lot more to replace than if I broke the equivalent on the SJ.
My perfect Suzuki would be a Sammy with a 1.9L Peugeot or VW diesel engine, Rock lobster transfer box( or twin gearbox) and 33" to 35" tyres.
__________________________________ Motorist who drove his 4x4 up Snowdon sentenced to appear on Top Gear. |
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Toecutter Off-Road Guru
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Odometer: 1200 Location: Tropical East Yorkshire
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject:
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Have a look at the SPAM Zuke pics / videos at Kirton, that's coiled and pretty much the dogs nadgers.
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=8021&highlight=
It will show you what the mighty Zuki can be turned into, and even in bog standard form they're pretty good.
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Luke Bailey Mud Obsessed
Joined: 23 Jul 2005 Odometer: 4102 Location: Moorside Oldham Lancashire
1989 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject:
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that rhino ray picture you posted is a range rover with Suzuki body on top.
Suzuki coil sonversion....
incarnation one:
incarnation 2:
jimny coils.
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Kitesurf Difflock Royalty
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Odometer: 14197 Location: Luton, Beds
1994 Toyota Surf
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject:
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Luke,
With all due respect, the only bits of your truck that are going to be Suzuki are the chassis and the cab/front end. I am in no way taking away from you that you are doing the absolute ******** of a job on your truck. It ain't going to be a Suzuki at the end of the project, although it will keep the Suzuki shape and run a Vauxhall/Isuzu engine. It will, however, be a top build and a credit to you, I am sure.
Tom's original question was Landrover or Suzuki. I would say Suzuki, at beginners level, because of the relatively cheap parts/mods available. The general superiority complex of landy owners will suggest that, unless you spend at least four figures on your truck, it won't be worth a look.
__________________________________ Motorist who drove his 4x4 up Snowdon sentenced to appear on Top Gear. |
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