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215/75r15 AT tyre for snow, gravel and occasional mud

 
 
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Caelite
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Joined: 04 Aug 2017
Odometer: 5
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: 215/75r15 AT tyre for snow, gravel and occasional mud Reply with quote

Hey folks

Looking for anyone who can recommend a tyre, looking for 3PMSF rated AT tyres, I know that the BFG KO2 and General Grabber AT3 hold this rating, just wondering what else there is, already discounted the KO2, to be honest they are my favourite tyres and most of my work trucks run them, but their pricing in their smaller sizes is silly (105/corner, with GGs at 78, Falken Wildpeaks/Toyo ATs at 70)

Tyre is for 90% road use, but will be fitted year round. Lot of gravel tracks and lots of snow during winter months (I drive around Ballachulish (Glencoe) a lot as that's where my family stay, also occasionally do work up in Sutherland) also occasionally do pay and plays & muddy forestry tracks, so need something more sufficient than a HT.

So are there any other 3PMSF rated ATs other than the GGs or KO2s? Tyre is for a slightly lifted (50mm) Jimny.
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** GED **
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 1962
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3PMSF

AKA

three peak mountain snowflake mark.


thats it, we have hit the bottom.


i want a tyre thats rated 2 cedar usually nice trees

cant wait to see that abbreviated in trade mags.



whatever next.

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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3233



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
tyres should have very soft rubber compound and a tread with more incisions to ensure better performance in the snow


Well the soft rubber compound should discount BFG tyres for a start - they are the hardest compound tyres around, the reason they last so long...

No doubt another EU racket to get more type approval money in...
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Scrunt44
Winch Assistant


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 94




PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have on my Jimnys BFG T/A KM2 Been on 6 years, OK.
& Yokohama AT-S G012, been using for 3 years / winters and i like them.
(Standard fit on Ariel Nomad for road and offroad track use.
for offroad mud they fit Yokohama Mud's)

The AT-S G012 is good on Road, rain, ice, snow, gravel, mud, but not in serious mud, never been stuck though,
they are better in mud than BFG AT's.
Less than 80 a tyre should be easy to find.

I live and drive in Scotland and visit the Ski Centres and hills during winter
and the softness or hardness of my rubber has never been a concern,
the sipes or tread yes, and sidewalls that are nice and strong,
and how they actually perform not how some reviewer in another country thinks they do.
Roads in Scotland being ploughed and gritted usually, or snow gates closed,
and if the Postie and Tesco / Asda home delivery can get through, or drivers in their 90's in a Nissan Leaf then a Jimny can on any tyres.
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Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4880
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
3PMSF

AKA

three peak mountain snowflake mark.


thats it, we have hit the bottom.


i want a tyre thats rated 2 cedar usually nice trees

cant wait to see that abbreviated in trade mags.

A 3PMSF tyre means it has passed a test, a test that shows that the tyre has a minimum required performance in snow, I myself would go just for a normal M+S tyre, but most will have a 3PMSF marking on them, so the Geolander GO12 (as Scrunt44 has used) comes into the equation. If you want to go for something more specialist you will need to dig deep, a set of 6 275/40R21 ice/snow tyres has just cost a doctor I know the other side of 4k



whatever next.
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Scrunt44
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 94




PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5 Star to **GED** on the **** certification tyres, i missed spotting that in the post.

I used Insa Turbo on 16" rims for a good few winters on my jimny.
They were 3 peak marked, and pretty damn good,
until left too long sitting and the sidewalls cracked up.
(as i did when i spotted what **GED** posted)
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** GED **
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 1962
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i`d like to thank my manager, my agent, the cat........
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Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4880
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
i`d like to thank my manager, my agent, the cat........




Very Happy
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Caelite
Gate Opener


Joined: 04 Aug 2017
Odometer: 5
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry am I missing a joke with the whole 3PMSF thing? Surprised

The reason I was looking for the 3 peak rating was that it is an objectively based externally verified rating. Which to me is better than reviews (empirical evidence) or manufacturer claims (********).

Cheers Scrunt for the Yokohama Geolander recommendation, I've just been reading into them a bit and they look good, the G012 seems to have been replaced by the G015 recently, doesn't look as aggressive as the Generals though, gives me another option to pick up though, look to be priced about the same as the Generals too at 80ish.
Insa's I had them on my old Jimny as a mud tyre in 195/80r15, fantastic well driving in gloop, bloody impossible to balance right & I always worried about them falling a part above 50mph.

As for the state of roads, going to the ski centres isn't so bad, trying to navigate around all the little villages nearby is however more of a pain, plus I'm an idiot who likes to drive around snow gates! Very Happy
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** GED **
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 1962
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caelite wrote:
Sorry am I missing a joke with the whole 3PMSF thing? Surprised


yes. it is just another invented "test" to

a) con money out of manufacturers by charging them to have their products that have performed perfectly well for years stamped with a little picture so that they can

b) pass on the cost tenfold to those daft enough to look for it.

__________________________________
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Member of TEAM CHAOS
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Caelite
Gate Opener


Joined: 04 Aug 2017
Odometer: 5
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
Caelite wrote:
Sorry am I missing a joke with the whole 3PMSF thing? Surprised


yes. it is just another invented "test" to

a) con money out of manufacturers by charging them to have their products that have performed perfectly well for years stamped with a little picture so that they can

b) pass on the cost tenfold to those daft enough to look for it.


Eh, I don't disagree that the cost of the testing being past on to the consumer, but many consumers would rather a product that has been tested to an objective standard rather than just internally tested. For instance the M+S marking means absolutely nothing, it is merely a claim by the manufacturer that the tyre is designed with mud & snow in mind. The amount of Chinese tat you see marked with it is testament to this fact.

The idea of the 3PMSF rating was originally formulated in the 90s/early 00s by the U.S. Tire Manufacturers Association and Rubber Association of Canada as a way of marking 'quality' winter tyres that meet a certain friction index in snow conditions, this standard was later ratified in law by regulatory bodies in Canada and the EU. So with the regulation being put together by representatives of the tyre industry it is not so much a con to manufacturers, although I will admit it is a means of established manufacturers to claim their product is better than the smaller/Chinese brands.

Originally the standard was only met by the best of winter tyres, in more recent years tyre technology has moved on enough that some of the better all season and all terrain tyres are capable of meeting this standard.

It is standards like this that drive innovation and actual engineering. In my mind we need more objective measurements rather than just baseless claims by marketing departments.
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** GED **
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 1962
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no actually.

most consumers look at whats available, then buy the cheapest.

hence ebay is so successful.

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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3233



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Providing a manufacturer is willing to bung a coouple of million into the EU funds they can have any cetificate that they want stamped and signed by the EU - regardless of quality - just ask VW
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Scrunt44
Winch Assistant


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 94




PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caelite,
I used to go in to tow out the people that used to just go around the snow gates.
Not your West Coast ones, on the A93 & A939.

With your experience you will know that what looks more aggressive is not always the best if they just clog up with snow.
& then for ice on un-gritted / salted roads they can be crap.

Maybe just spend 60 more for the 4 tyres and get better if you think spending more matters. Better buy 5 anyway.
There is loads of choice of tyres, but IME you compromise someplace if you want mud plugging tyres, snow / winter tyres and also tyres for roads 90% of the time.
I have about 4 sets of wheels tyres for each of my Jimnys that used to get used occasionally, now the ones i mentioned in the first post are staying on as they do the job needed.

When the New Jimny is out and i have one i will likely fit Yokohama on it
if Suzuki turn them out with Bridgestone Duellers.

I have had Skoda Kodiaq's and a Karoq out on Bridgestone Duellers on snow and it is ridiculous that AWD's get these fitted to be sold in the UK.

If you want Mud Tyres any time.
I have for sale 4 Fedima Sirocco 235/80 R 15 on 15 x 8 Suzuki fit Steel wheels.
& a 5th Tyre not on a Rim.
350 and i will deliver them if you are interested.
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Caelite
Gate Opener


Joined: 04 Aug 2017
Odometer: 5
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, our west coast snow gates can get fairly hairy too once you get north of Crainlarich/the A83. Although rightly being said the ones I drive past on the A817 and A814 can be done by anyone with a bit of sense provided there hasn't been an excessive amount of snow, but due to the proximity to Glasgow you get numptys on summers and FWD trying them up and getting stuck (A817 is particularly bad for this as there is a steep downhill before a steep uphill, so they can't turn around).

My Jimny has dualer HTs on them at the moment, haven't had an opportunity to try them on anything really heavy, but to be honest I am not happy with their performance in the wet and light snow, although I will admit the ones I have are begining to perish and are about a 1.5mm off their wear markers so by no means good examples.

The trucks my work run (Rangers & L200s) run BFG KO2s. I love these tyres and tend to use these as the basis of comparison for a lot of what I run, But I just find it hard to justify there cost, they are 20-30% more expensive than their competition. But yeah, they have a moderately aggressive tread, but it is also well siped. The GG AT3s run a similar style tread (the AT2s where VERY similar), The Geolanders run a more 'conventional' style pattern.

Not looking for mud tyres at the moment, this Jimny is my new daily so taking it easy with the big offroad mods and breaking it at pay and plays Very Happy
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Scrunt44
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the area well i used to go offroading at Shantron and stayed often at Arrochar.
& Skiing @ White Corries as well.
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lambert
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Odometer: 751
Location: the crown subsistancy of yorkshire



PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you looked at the bfg urban terrain, all season with very good cold weather manners even in 2wd they only let SPAM you really provoke them. I have them in factory size on both my Jimny and when the cherry needs some it will get them too.
__________________________________
Oh, really? That is a pity.
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Scrunt44
Winch Assistant


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had never even been aware of those, so thanks for bringing them up.
I have watched some youtube of them fitted and looked at reviews now.
They will be tyres i might well get when needing new one in the future.
Hopefully for going on a New Jimny when available.

EDIT.
I know know these are also sold as Kleber Citilander.
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gregor59
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Joined: 02 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've just installed another set of bfg tyres, along with rack and SNIP for buddy's pick up truck. We had great experience with KO2 either, definitely last longer than Continental.
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Scrunt44
Winch Assistant


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregor59,
welcome to the forum, but are you a spammer that is just building up a post count before inserting links to click on?
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Nightbar
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Location: In a state of anticipation...


1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please take this as a gentle hint to not include advertising in posts as they will usually get deleted.
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Plant a tree for the Difflock 3
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** GED **
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 1962
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and if you change your name to dennis, the ****`s hitting the fan
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Nightbar
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I miss Dennis.
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Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
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Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly knew his Unimogs
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** GED **
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 1962
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but they would have been better if the americans made them though......
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Mr Tyre
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Joined: 17 Jun 2002
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Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Americans do make some they are badged Freightliner and are used by the US military they are very much like JCB's. They run 12.5-20 tires on them, they come up for sale every so often you can get uber low hours ones for around $9k.
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Xpajun
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Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Tyre wrote:
The Americans do make some they are badged Freightliner and are used by the US military they are very much like JCB's. They run 12.5-20 tires on them, they come up for sale every so often you can get uber low hours ones for around $9k.



Sounds a better deal than what Nene Overland is offering Laughing
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** GED **
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 1962
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Tyre wrote:
The Americans do make some they are badged Freightliner and are used by the US military they are very much like JCB's. They run 12.5-20 tires on them, they come up for sale every so often you can get uber low hours ones for around $9k.


thats where he`s gone then.

he`s rubbing himself all over one in his back yard

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Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4880
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
Mr Tyre wrote:
The Americans do make some they are badged Freightliner and are used by the US military they are very much like JCB's. They run 12.5-20 tires on them, they come up for sale every so often you can get uber low hours ones for around $9k.


thats where he`s gone then.

he`s rubbing himself all over one in his back yard



Smile
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Nightbar
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awww - play fair - just when the 3 of us in here were getting to know him.
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