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zng109
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 Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject:
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I spent my lunch break ripping down a spare axle, the crown looks ok, one of the shafts was ill.
In the video you will notice prop vibration from the rear axle.
When I bought the car the front axle was ill... I replaced it with a new correct one, but the vibration from the rear pluss the bunching of the front tells me probably a miss matched axle.
Rear left on the axle is due to a poorly brake cylinder,
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jeremy
Just got MTs
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Odometer: 467
Location: Lydd Kentshire
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:28 pm Post subject:
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__________________________________
Nissan patrol, Jimny. |
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RichMayo
Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject:
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| zng109 wrote: |
When I bought the car the front axle was ill... I replaced it with a new correct one |
Not sure you did if it's mismatched  Correct one would have matched. Did it do this before you swapped the axle? Or was it poorly to the extent it wouldn't anyway?
If they are mismatching you might want to take the opportunity to find a preferred ratio. If you you've got 5.12 in one end you might want to make the other end match that to give you a bit more turning power... rather than match the other end if it's say a 4.88. This might have been the source of your problems in the first place. If the previous owner has already changed the diffs to improve gearing - the "correct" one (as in what it came out of factory with) would now be the wrong one. If that makes any sense at all.
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mike328
Articulating
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject:
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| jeremy wrote: | |
 £30 a ton at the moment though! I found out after weighing in and getting unloaded 
__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920. |
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zng109
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:03 pm Post subject:
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| jeremy wrote: | |
Thanks that is really inspirational, although in some ways I understand what you are trying to say, you in turn need to understand that we hope to achieve the "norm" that would be our norm( what we think should be reasonable for ourselves and our vehicles), not the norm pushed on us.
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zng109
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:14 pm Post subject:
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| RichMayo wrote: | | zng109 wrote: |
When I bought the car the front axle was ill... I replaced it with a new correct one |
Not sure you did if it's mismatched Correct one would have matched. Did it do this before you swapped the axle? Or was it poorly to the extent it wouldn't anyway?
If they are mismatching you might want to take the opportunity to find a preferred ratio. If you you've got 5.12 in one end you might want to make the other end match that to give you a bit more turning power... rather than match the other end if it's say a 4.88. This might have been the source of your problems in the first place. If the previous owner has already changed the diffs to improve gearing - the "correct" one (as in what it came out of factory with) would now be the wrong one. If that makes any sense at all. |
Bang on mate!
the front axle was rather ill when I got it so I matched engine to axle and had done with it, ( similar mis behaviour as in the old axle did the same)
so I have a nasty suspicion that the rear mis matched axle has given up the ghost, god knows how many front axles have died to now.
I have pulled all the drive shafts in the axle and will replace the crown tomorrow, I doubt I will be able to drive until monday but its an hour a day job as it is lunch hour work.
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ScottieJ
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:07 am Post subject:
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I'm a bit confused with your terminology of some of the parts? Presume you mean the differential housing when you say front axle?
If by "crown" you mean the crownwheel then you can't just change the crownwheel on its own, both the ring (crownwheel) and pinion need to be changed, if they are new then they both need to be new, if they are used then you need to use the ring and pinion from the same used diff, they shouldn't be mix and matched. Different ratio ring and pinions have different tooth profiles as well as the different tooth counts and must be fitted as a matching set or the diff will chew itself up.
Diffs need to be set up to precise tolerances, incorrect backlash and bearing preloads will cause premature failure.
You need work out the ratios of each diff and make sure you end up with a matching set or you are going to keep breaking things.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject:
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| zng109 wrote: |
so I matched engine to axle and had done with it
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That could well be where issues came from - or even related to whatever was involved in putting the steel diff in. Someone may have changed the diffs to a ratio that doesn't match the engine - but perhaps an upgrade with whatever wheels etc. the vehicle is running. At which point diff replacement is more about matching the other end... Diff ratio change isn't uncommon on these kinds of toys so.
If it were me I'd do the following:
1) figure out whats in the front
2) figure out whats in the back
3) figure out what ratio I want (hopefully one of the above matches)
4) install diff(s) to get the ratio I want at necessary end (hopefully one already matches)
If you don't figure out what the current state of the truck is - you don't know how to fix it and it's guess work (which potentially = money/time)
If you've already done the above - what diffs has it got in it?
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zng109
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:26 pm Post subject:
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You are correct, I quite often can not articulate the correct terminology for parts and problems.
So to whit back wheels go fast fast and front wheels go slow slow making big problem.
I took a big hammer and lots of spanners to take out wrong thing in axle and found
this
I think lots of teeth make quick, less teath run slow,
Not extracting the urine, thats how I think. New shiny old dirty.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject:
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Which end is that? Front? What's the tooth count?
Have you looked at the other end yet?
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brook_lands
Gate Opener
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Odometer: 47
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:30 pm Post subject:
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| zng109 wrote: | I think lots of teeth make quick, less teath run slow,
Not extracting the urine, thats how I think. New shiny old dirty. |
Not quite, depends on the number of teeth on the pinion gear and the crown wheel.
The diff ratio is the relationship between the two, a bigger ratio the lower the gearing and the slower the vehicle goes (in your terminology)
Ignoring the gear box (and in an SJ the transfer box) and assuming the engine in directly coupled to the prop shaft. Every time the engine turns 1000 revolutions the prop shaft turns 1000 revolutions.
If the differential ratio is 4:1 then that means that for every 4 turns of the prop shaft the output shaft turns 1 revolution.
If the ratio was 5:1 then it would take 5 turns of the prop shaft to turn the output shaft 1 revolution.
So in the first example for your 1000 engine revolutions the wheels go round 250 times. In the second case the wheel only go round 200 times.
I think a SJ 413 has 11 teeth on the pinion and 43 on the crown wheel giving a ratio of 43/11 to 1 or 3.909:1. You need to count the number of teeth on both the pinion and the crown to work out the ratio of the diff.
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zng109
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:19 pm Post subject:
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Oh well pot luck its all together now!
Good news I may have found the source of the vibration...... the steering gearbox is a bit wobbly.
I am also working on the assumption it came out of 1.6 manual.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:28 pm Post subject:
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| zng109 wrote: |
I am also working on the assumption it came out of 1.6 manual.
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That assumption may not help you...
See a few posts down in the sticky vitara compendium in Suzuki section http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=69557
Vehicle :: Engine Valves, Fuel system :: Diff:ratio :: Final:drive ratio
Suzuki Vitara :: 1.6 8v. carb. :: 5.125:1 :: 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara :: 1.6 16v. inj. :: 5.125:1 :: 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara :: 1.6 8v. inj. :: 4.875:1 :: 1.816 / 1.00 (4u and 4u2)
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zng109
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject:
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Well, to be honest I am financially impaired, (this in layman's words means poor, why do you think I have a blitz as my day today car? Because I like freezing to death? I lovethe feel of sitting in a puddle?)
So I am in the processes of fixing a very badly built car, trying to build it up to the spec of my old vit, foolishly sold for the prestige of a blitz.
I had no idea that the guy who built the car so much, I am trying to sort it out on a shoe string budget and a pile of spares from another badly built off roader beausea it was so dangerous.
A new tablet and lack of glasses is not helping me either.
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ScottieJ
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject:
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I'm pretty sure people here are just trying to offer you advise that could save you money in the long run. If the front and rear diffs end up still being different ratios then any use in 4wd has the potential to cause more damage in the future.
All you had to do was count the number teeth on the ring and pinion of the diff you just fitted, and simply divide the number of teeth on the crownwheel by the number of teeth on the pinion to confirm the ratio. I.e 43/10 would be 4.3:1 and so on.
Then when you get a chance (hopefully before the next time you go off-road and use 4wd) to pull the front diff and do the same to check the front ratio. It's the most accurate way to do it and when you know what exactly is fitted. if they don't match just avoid use in 4wd until you change one of them to make a matching set.
Last edited by ScottieJ on Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RichMayo
Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:22 am Post subject:
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What ScottieJ said basically. Crack on if you want to risk it, I wouldn't but that's me - each to there own. Piece of mind of knowing I've done it right and less risk of future spendings. I think you've been given plenty of advice on this thread now so you've got the info at your fingertips if it doesn't work out.
In any case let us know if it fixes the initial problem of lifting the front end.
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zng109
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:55 pm Post subject:
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| I am replacing the whole steering rack now a non mechanical friend watched me test drive and pointed out the front was a tad wobbly
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