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uk spider.
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: uk spider. Reply with quote

hi guys, i am having a go at building a spider. minimog sent me a link to lars dhal's yellow spider site, it had a cutting list, so i ordered what it said i needed and i now have this






i will be pusing an old mondeo 1.8 petrol auto as the power.

now i thought that you used the auto to power a, lets say sj transfer box, then from that to the diffs, but speaking to a few friends on here i am wrong, you use the front drive shafts to go straight to the diffs, is this right?

__________________________________
sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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R Bates
Gate Opener


Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Odometer: 4
Location: Wisbech,Cambridgeshire



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi i've been lurking in the back ground watching everybodys builds for quite a while now and i'm more than impressed with the builds that people are doing on here.
Ive recently built a tomcat and various modified and bobtailed land rovers but the more i look at the buggys being built the more i want to build one!
I've been following the light weight rock crawler and little tube buggy thread's and they have really fired up my enthusiasm to build something from scratch.
Now i've seen the photo of what you are building in the other thread i think i'm hooked on building one!
Do you have the link to the materials/cutting list? i need to make a start on a build!!

Regards
Rich
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the link is www.yellowspider.se, it was minimog's last post of the transaxle thread, so far its used 1 length of 50x50x3 and 1/2 length of 40x40x3 and you can pick it all up on your own, so should be nice and light
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sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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R Bates
Gate Opener


Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Odometer: 4
Location: Wisbech,Cambridgeshire



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that, i've got a load of the right size box section allready here so i think thats a good enough reason to build one!
What axle's are you planning on using?
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baloo
Articulating


Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Odometer: 940
Location: Redditch



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: uk spider. Reply with quote

piggy wrote:
hi guys,

i will be using an old mondeo 1.8 petrol auto as the power.

now i thought that you used the auto to power a, lets say sj transfer box, then from that to the diffs, but speaking to a few friends on here i am wrong, you use the front drive shafts to go straight to the diffs, is this right?


hi piggy
nice to see another project on the go
you can feed the driveshafts straight to the diffs or you can go through an sj transfer both will work fine, your choice will be driven by 2 things, your gearing and the amount of spave you have to fit a transfer box in,
if the modeo auto has a diff in it about 4 to one and whatever axles you are using are around 4.8 or 5.1 to one then thats fine with out a transfer reduction as well, if you were using landrover axles with 3,54 diffs and you were running 36" tyres then having a transfer reduction as well would probablly be a good idea but space runs out fast when you mock it all up and it might prove hard to physically get it all in a small buggy, for me being small and lightwieght is an important part of it,
one of the benifits of using a transaxle is that its compact and wieghs little in comparison to a conventional drive train so if you are going to add in another gearbox ( transfer) then you are loosing some of its appeal, you might be better of using a vitara engine and box with twin transfers on the back this might package better and forcing the engine well forward and this is probally no bad thing as it seems to be benifical when climbing steep hills to get the wieght as far forward as possible, but of course the reverse is true when you come down the other side
anyway good luck with the spider l will follow with intrest as like the spider idea and will probally have a go at a lightwieght one after the little tube buggy is finished

Andy
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r085
Just got MTs


Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Odometer: 108
Location: KENT


1989 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

piggy wrote:
the link is www.yellowspider.se, it was minimog's last post of the transaxle thread, so far its used 1 length of 50x50x3 and 1/2 length of 40x40x3 and you can pick it all up on your own, so should be nice and light


i see now what you are building. that looks fun. gunna keep an eye on how you get on. might have to give it a go myself. could be a laugh. good luck
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generation-x
Just got MTs


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Odometer: 415
Location: telford



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ill be watchin this build with interest me thinks
looks nice and simple

wot axles are you going to use?

Simon

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To get more from your toyota go to
http://www.team-yota.co.uk
http://www.shropshire-suzuki.co.uk
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anybody already know how to unwire the engine from the rest of the mondeo, i want to use the injection and factory timing of the zeetec, there must be someone who has already done this it will give me a nice head start

baloo, i intend to use landrover axels, as i already have a pair of strengthened and lockered axels at hand, i would really like 303 or another set of moggs but i dont want it to cost a fortune

as soon as i can get the engine out the better as the chassis will be welded up on momday, i am two linking the axels to the chassis, just like a 404 mog, an a frame and a pannard rod, what do you all think?

__________________________________
sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

going to be a cool build
you dont need a t-case like you said because its a fwd turned through 90 degees you have the outputs but you have to find a way of locking the diff inside the auto box also make sure the rotation is correct for the axles your planning (if your using mog they seem to flip the front not sure if its for rotation or just to get the diff on the correct side for the drive shafts)
also mogs arnt two links
can you exsplain what you meen by two links (are you counting the pan hard rod as one and the "A" frame as the other(refered to as one link + pan hard rod) same as a three link (two lower links and one upper + pan hard rod)or two lower links and a wishbone upper link no panhard rod (like on the rear of landrovers) or four links two lowers and two uppers+ pan hard rod or four trangulated links no pan hard rod

__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok,

i see 404 as two link, meaning two points of location to the chassis i,e the a frame and the pannard rod, if this is in fact a one link then so be it, it shall be a one link

__________________________________
sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so now i know
what are you planing to use at the chassis end of the a frame been looking at various options (not too keen on the welding around a spherical bearing) been looking a johny joints but might not provide enough missenlignment




Wink the torque tube are attached to the gearbox not the chassis

__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will use the tractor top links that unimoggler used on his rangerover sj chassis, i think he put some photos on difflock, just like a rose joint but a bit bigger


the mog thing, i know the torque tube goes to the gearbox not the chassis, but it is a continuation of the a frame that bolts to the 404 axel, you know that, i know that, as we have mogs, but some of the guys dont. so to simplify an a frame will be fitted to the radius arms and then fitted to the chassis through a large rose joint

__________________________________
sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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generation-x
Just got MTs


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Odometer: 415
Location: telford



PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

have you seen these piggy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imUm112EJn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8WdJliglc0&NR=1

__________________________________
To get more from your toyota go to
http://www.team-yota.co.uk
http://www.shropshire-suzuki.co.uk
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boss
Just got MTs


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Odometer: 262
Location: norfolk


1995 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

piggy wrote:
i will use the tractor top links that unimoggler used on his rangerover sj chassis, i think he put some photos on difflock, just like a rose joint but a bit bigger


the mog thing, i know the torque tube goes to the gearbox not the chassis, but it is a continuation of the a frame that bolts to the 404 axel, you know that, i know that, as we have mogs, but some of the guys dont. so to simplify an a frame will be fitted to the radius arms and then fitted to the chassis through a large rose joint



not too sure what your saying here, but the reason why the mog 1 link works so well is becasue its a propper 1 link, the torque tube stops the axle flipping over. what you have just discribed sounds more like a 3 link if your moving the 2 outer links to the chassis.

asking around i have found that you dont want any less than 10" of seperation of the links if your ditching the torque tube. and you cant just bolt the torque tube to any gearbox

to be honest the cost of mogs have sky rocketed!and to make them work off of a mog well you need to totally re build them so unless you really really want them i would just fit some some of the jap axles with the difflocks in them.

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BOSSFAB

pm me for tube manipulation

‎2lb club hammer?......HA! my club hammer is a cut down sledge!
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4x4rick
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Odometer: 1900
Location: J25 M25



PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

his fitting up/rated L/Rover axles that have lockers and shafts

look forward to reading the progress Piggy with PLENTY of pics please

__________________________________
Most sports require only one ball -our sport require's two..........
.........................................................................

DCJC member
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="boss"]
piggy wrote:
i will use the tractor top links that unimoggler used on his rangerover sj chassis, i think he put some photos on difflock, just like a rose joint but a bit bigger


the mog thing, i know the torque tube goes to the gearbox not the chassis, but it is a continuation of the a frame that bolts to the 404 axel, you know that, i know that, as we have mogs, but some of the guys dont. so to simplify an a frame will be fitted to the radius arms and then fitted to the chassis through a large rose joint



not too sure what your saying here, but the reason why the mog 1 link works so well is becasue its a propper 1 link, the torque tube stops the axle flipping over. what you have just discribed sounds more like a 3 link if your moving the 2 outer links to the chassis.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

please, please stop the mog explinations to me. i have a 404 so i know how it works.

boss, if you read my post that you quoted, i never said any thing about 3 links with two outer links on the chassis

i will make this totally clear for you all, i propose using landy axels, just because i have a strengthened and lockered pair, i will mount them on an a frame fixed ridged to the axel, with a large rosejoint mounted to the chassis, i hope this helps

do any of you have any ford zetec engine wireing diagrams or have any of you dewired one away from the mondeo, you see i want to use the injection and ignition.

boss, next time i catch you on facebook we will have a chat about this project

__________________________________
sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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simonallen
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Odometer: 1019
Location: In the s**t most of the time...


1997 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PM me with your mondeo engine code whether it's rka or rkb - as I have wiring diagrams, ecu pinouts and component locations for both
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boss
Just got MTs


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Odometer: 262
Location: norfolk


1995 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry i have no idea how i came to that conclusion.now ive re read it what ive said makes no sence. Sorry about that. Facebook me any time mate i got a pretty good idea of who you are and you know im not to far from you so if you need a hand let me know.
__________________________________
BOSSFAB

pm me for tube manipulation

‎2lb club hammer?......HA! my club hammer is a cut down sledge!
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonallen, thank you, do you know where the code will be on the mondeo


me and a buddy have spent all day cautiously dewiring the car, i will post a pic tomorrow of the mass of wiring, we now have a decluttered loom ready to rewire, the only cock up was we removed the economy/sport switch and the default is economy, hopefuly this only refers to the gearbox rev change

the chassis will go for welding tommorrow

now am i being short sighted using my rangerover axle's, should i use something else like dana or g waggon, your help is needed, i dont want this build to cost a fortune, i will be posting cost and time every now and then

__________________________________
sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thought the rangy axles are locked up if so use them (just when you break them parts are easy to get)
g wagons are strong but parts are exspensive (calipers cost more than a trailer full of landy axles)
dana axles your going to need atleast 60's and after paying for them and lockers you might aswell of gone to mogs in the first place
i would use what you got you could always up grade when funds alow

__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is what we found behind the dash


all the alarm and the pats are nicely mixed in with the other wiring


the chassis being welded up




ok lets talk 4 wheel steer, you know the jcb telehandlers, they have a switch that controls conventional steer, crab and four wheel steer, anybody ever used one for an offroader, can the valve be copied in anyway

__________________________________
sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes you could use a solinode spool valve but its not cheep you could also use sensors to self center
__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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clbarclay
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Odometer: 1779
Location: Worcesterhire


1987 Land Rover Range Rover

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One downside to the telehandler steering system is that the front and rear steering is not intendant. Say if you just want to steer the rear without steering the front its particularly difficult because to do that would mean turning all 4 wheels in 4ws and then straightening up the front wheels up again. The system suits telehandlers which spend most of the time in 4ws, use 2ws (front only) from time to time on road and crab steering occasionally for awkward manoeuvring (usually when dozing grain into a heap and I've got it wedged against a grain store wall), but I doubt it would be as practical for off road applications where being able to independently steer each axle around/over obstacles would help. Occasionally with the telehandler at home it would be nice to have independent rear steering for some jobs.

IIRC they use an common orbital steering valve and a separate switch over valve, which can be mechanically controlled. Try contacting an agricultural or industrial breaker to for second hand valves.

Another option would be to use a common mechanically operated spool valve with a joystick for the controlling the rear steering (you could also integrate other controls into the joystick) and use a cable linked to the rear axle track rod to provide a mechanical feedback to the spool valve. If the mechanical feed back doesn't make any sense I could make a diagram, though I'm sure I've seen this done before (or at least talked about) on 4ws buggys.

Looks like it will be a good build

Found an example of mechanical cable steering feedback on Pirate4x4
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=528619

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and the Lord help them caught helping there selves.
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jamietdci
Just got MTs


Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Odometer: 127
Location: South Wales


1991 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For 4 wheel steer, i have researched it and found the best way is to sleeve the ends of a front axle onto rear axle saving the need for flipping the diffs.

Then using a pump to power a double ended ram which is controlled by an electric switch, if you have basic fabrication skills (making steering arms etc) /knowledge in hydraulics its not to difficult to do.

Get yourself along to some of the awdc trials rounds; theres usually something with 4 wheel steer there, and most will be happy to talk to you about the setup etc

Jamie
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unimogler
Winch Assistant


Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Odometer: 93




PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking at the build up of a spider on the swedish 4x4 forum it has a two piece rear prop shaft with the carrier bearing towards the near side and the rear diff is on the near side which i think means a front axle would just bolt sraight on and turn in the right direction assuming the propshaft is turning clock wise when viewed from the front. any one know what sort of coil springs the swedish spiders are using , does any one in the uk make coil springs and what sort of rate would they be?
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offroad 68
Winch Assistant


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Odometer: 82
Location: staffordshire



PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the wiring I have recently transplanted a year 2000 peugeot engine in to a buggy but all of the "experts" said you will not do it with out a stand alone ecu but we did it by keeping all of the immobiliser in the system and I am useless with wiring.
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Rizla 1
Articulating


Joined: 21 May 2007
Odometer: 656
Location: Berkshire



PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the transit tipper they have a electric hydro pump which a few guys have used for rear steer , using a joystick works fast and well

Lars Dahl (yellow spider ) is not to good at English so not a lot of point mailing him - but i can talk to others if you need to know anything Cool
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boss
Just got MTs


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Odometer: 262
Location: norfolk


1995 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

solinoid valve, 2 proximity sensors, 3 way switch


lft one way right the other(depending on how you want it) and down to centre the wheels. can be done cheaply with a spool valve.
double ended rams ar not a nessesety as you can use a duuble acting rame and a track rod to thesame effect

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BOSSFAB

pm me for tube manipulation

‎2lb club hammer?......HA! my club hammer is a cut down sledge!
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Rizla 1
Articulating


Joined: 21 May 2007
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Location: Berkshire



PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been on to a mate who has a spider and the springs are from a renault 12 and in Sweden they can still buy these new for around 200 quid
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piggy
Just got MTs


Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Odometer: 189
Location: gt waldingfield suffolk



PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rizla 1 wrote:
Been on to a mate who has a spider and the springs are from a renault 12 and in Sweden they can still buy these new for around 200 quid


hi rizla is that a set or each, i would have thought jayar or eu could get them in this country, i will try tommorow, i thought they mostly had air shocks on coil overs on the spiders

__________________________________
sj,rangerover,90 i have had them all, just fell in love again, its a mog!!
shush dont tell the mog i'm having an affair..... with a spider!!!!
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