FORUM CLASSIFIEDS DIFFLOCK.com Links & Networks
Forum Homepage
Log in
Profile
Search
Private Messages
Forum Members
Register
Classified Ads
Search Ads
Place New Ad
My ads
Place your classified
ads here for FREE
NB: Adverts placed in the general
forum areas will be deleted
Difflock Homepage
Online Shop
Contact Us
FAQ
Calendar
Garage
Facebook
Twitter
Youtube
Advertise With Us - Reach your target market by advertising on the Difflock.com forum.
Click here or call 0845 125 9407


Running a external roll cage off box section sills.

 
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> 4x4s
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
rory-ray
Winch Assistant


Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Odometer: 76
Location: Bristol/Dundry


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:33 pm    Post subject: Running a external roll cage off box section sills. Reply with quote

My Vitara is in the process of getting some box sills welded on, I'm getting some box section this week.


For a flush fit around 70mm/80mm is needed, but if I'm planning to run a external cage I'm guessing ill need something that's going to act as a step so I got something to weld to?

Say the roll bar is 2.25 thick I'm guessing ill need some rectangular box section at around 150mm x 80mm? To allow for welding ?


Sorry for a silly question I just want to get it right,thanks![/i]

__________________________________
1998 Vitara Hardtop Currently In Pieces In The Garage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeap, or do the flush fit sill and then weld a tubular tree/rock slider to it to support your cage? or bring down tubes through your wing to meet the flush fitted sill. It needs to be pretty strong if you want to survive a big roll, most cages are welded to chassis, just remember your body is rubber mounted before you go welding it into the body and then tie into your chassis. Wink
__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rory-ray
Winch Assistant


Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Odometer: 76
Location: Bristol/Dundry


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought i was on to something, god knows how! Haha.


I'm running tublar wings up front, as vitara wings are always getting bent and replacements are always rotten!

With the cage I was looking at running a 2x hoops one in front the door and around the screen and one up and around the b pillar, x brace the top, brace just above the scuttle then run the tublar wings off the front off it and weld them onto the winch bumper that's welded to the chassis.


I won't fix anything to the body, not even a cup holder would stay on there!!!

__________________________________
1998 Vitara Hardtop Currently In Pieces In The Garage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want the cage to go where you were planning (that goes from wings to bumper to chassis) you could solid mount the body using ally blocks or something to stop the body/chassis moving so independently of each other? I don't know if people do this but I have been considering it for my own truck Confused
__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been wondering about this myself for a bit. I was going to try and get the sills as flush and compact as possible when replacing with box section and then fix the cage to the chassis as I also want to mount "wing" guards to the front bumper.

Other thought was too replace box section used in body lift with lengths of box section to make a sort of outrigger and re-use what already exists of the body mounts (probably needs strengthening though). I've a looked at it a few times. I don't think its straight forward though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vague plan is to make a body mounted cage using box sills as mountings and not attach it to the bumpers or chassis. I know its a bit unorthodox but I think for my purposes as tree slider/slight topple over protection it should be fine..
I have toyed with fitting some poly bushes between body mounted wing bars and chassis mounted winch bumper to absorb some flex..?
Also wondered whether a steel wing bar would have enough flex to twist and bend with the body/chassis without breaking? That would be something that i'd experiment with but not advise....

__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A roll cage mounted to the chassis will take the weight of the chassis and it's weighty parts - engine, transmission, axles

A roll cage mounted to the body is not going to stop the chassis and it's associated weighty parts from crushing the body from underneath....


Guess which I'd choose Wink Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website eBay Name
rory-ray
Winch Assistant


Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Odometer: 76
Location: Bristol/Dundry


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want a cage to.protect the truck really, "tree wacker cage" I don't plan going too mad off road with it unlike my last ones but then and again I said that before........
__________________________________
1998 Vitara Hardtop Currently In Pieces In The Garage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem - I think -

We buy a truck, we go off-roading, we get stuck
We stick on mud tyres, we go off-roading, we get stuck
We lift it, we stick on bigger extreme tyres, we go off-roading, we get stuck
We fit a winch, we go off-roading, we get stuck
We nearly tip it, we fit a cage, we go off-roading, we do a big roll.....


Plan for the worse cus one day... you know it's gonna happen Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website eBay Name
mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xpajun wrote:
Plan for the worse cus one day... you know it's gonna happen Wink


Words of wisdom if I ever read them!

So should we forget weird and wonderful home cage design and follow the MSA rule book?

It is hard to properly triangulate an external cage (and still be able to open and close doors..etc..) So how about a safety devices internal cage to save your life if the worst comes to the worst, and some basic tree slider bars outside to protect roof gutters, sills and windscreen?

__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rory-ray
Winch Assistant


Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Odometer: 76
Location: Bristol/Dundry


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant argue with that.

Any time someone brings up the idea of building some sort of cage people always bring up the same thing, "get a proper one you will roll it and die"


And obviously there is a chance of.it happening but on the flip side how many people do you see at pay and play places ( more serious ones) with cages?...


How many people on this forum with 4x4s that go out light offloading, greenlining etc have cages?


Not many.



I want something to protect the truck from trees etc, ill look into protecting myself when and if I start going hard offroad.

I've toppled over a few times while at funny angles nothing to worry about, a broken mirror and some dents.



If I was going off silly drops and silly angles near danger I'd get a proper cage, but I know my limits without one.

__________________________________
1998 Vitara Hardtop Currently In Pieces In The Garage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rory-ray wrote:


How many people on this forum with 4x4s that go out light offloading, greenlining etc have cages?


Not many.



I didn't Rolling Eyes



I was driving slowly at the time - there was a deep track running up to my left which I didn't know about (and stupidly didn't get out of the truck to check my line) one 180º roll later...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website eBay Name
mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ouch!

would your average non triangulated external windscreen hoop have helped? not much I guess...?

Most proper safety devices (other brands are available) cages are designed like a crumple zone so to protect the driver not the vehicle in a big off (with a driver "safety cell" in the middle).

How would you go about designing an external cage that would protect the vehicle in a small slow roll so that windscreen still fits and doors still open and close?

__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alex90
Articulating


Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Odometer: 861
Location: preston, Lancashire



PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen jimny cages mounted to the rock sliders but that will only be as strong as the outriggers mounting the rock sliders to the chassis. The main reason id buy one rather than make one is liability. If someone gets killed due to a dodgy weld or something you can point the finger at someone else.
__________________________________
54 reg l200 warrior in black. 2" lift, rough country shocks with prototype bolt on relocation brackets, ralliart power upgrade, egr blanked, realtree camo truckman top, straight through side exit exhaust.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stodd
Just got MTs


Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Odometer: 266
Location: Kent



PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many many hair cuts ago I had a bob-tail pick-up discovery with a roll cage welded to box section rock sliders. It got some serious stick, laying on the floor and trees, and saved the body panels no end. I competed in that truck several times in events with scrutineering rules laid out by the MSA. As i said this was a while ago, so i would check he current regs. if you need it to be up to scratch, but it met the rules and worked fine.

If your truck is a hard top, in the event of a roll over the body work should be capable of keeping it's shape well enough for you to be able to get out. As mine was turned into a pick-up i thought some of the integrity had gone from the shell, so we built a cage.

It had to have at least one complete hoop with no joins in it. This went around the B pillar, the front hoop was a complicated shape and had to be made in several bits.
The diagonal brace in the rear hoop had to go from above the drivers head, to the opposite bottom corner. (Top right to bottom left for mine)
It had to have braces from the top of the rear hoop, down to the chassis at the back of the vehicle with no bends in them.
The out riggers which held the rock sliders to the chassis had to be a certain size too. 100X100 box section i think

__________________________________
Stodd

I couldnt fix your brakes, so i made your horn louder !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nivapaul
Articulating


Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Odometer: 693
Location: Birmingham



PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rolled my niva years ago without doing anything that seemed serious.

Since then I roll cage my cars .

Search for my niva pickup project I did an external cage on that to box section.

__________________________________
(NIVAD)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TJ_in_Dubai
Just got MTs


Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Odometer: 371
Location: Dubai, UAE


1997 Jeep Wrangler

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went for a bit of a roll once. Launched off a dune with a tad too much gusto and rolled end over end and then onto its side.....

Thankfully Jeeps have a (half) cage as standard. Not upto an regs but they do OK for slow speed tumbles.

This is her as she lay - the aftermath!



And this is her back on her feet after a little assistance from the loader behind.


__________________________________
Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport
33x12x15's
4.88 R&P's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GVstu
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Odometer: 2314
Location: Northumberland



PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a picture of my old Jimny that had tubes off box section, the cage wasn't too snug though and it only got used in anger once...




p.s. I think this is still going around somewhere.

__________________________________
He asked me if I'd seen a road with so much dust and sand; And I said, "Listen! I've traveled every road in this here land!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scrunt44
Just got MTs


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 137
Location: Scotland.



PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thread revival.
Mine is similar but much less of a cage.
The Box Section is not the sills of the body, they are coming off the chassis.
As build by Protection & Performance for KAP Suzuki.
http://ppcages.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> 4x4s All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum
Adrian Flux 2023

Oil Safe

Evo Oils

Service Kits

Specialist Tools

Join our mailing list for upcoming events, special offers, discount coupons and expert advice on the latest 4x4 products!

* indicates required





    
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group