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newbie! shogun advice please!
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:26 pm    Post subject: newbie! shogun advice please! Reply with quote

Hi guys,
I'm new to 4x4's and need a little advise! Sorry if it's been asked b4!

Rightly or wrongly I've just bought a 99 swb 2.8 wide body shogun! Smile
i live 3 miles off a main road and main aim is to never get stuck in or out if we get snow etc over the winter! Will use it Daily but happy if it's noisey/sketchy on tarmac Smile
And have always been into big/monster trucks!
Been chatting to a friend who's got me interested in pay'play and g-landing!

My plan is
2.5" sus raise, Can u advice on best set up? There is raise kits on eBay but don't know quality?
3 or 4.5" body raise
33x12.5x15 on steel modulars
What tyres would u advise?

Got a budget of 1kish to start with!

Also will my new toy have rear and centre diff locks? It's a gls if that makes a difference!
Thanks in advance!
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Nightbar
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Odometer: 20799
Location: In a state of anticipation...


1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome - and you've got 2 of the things you need already: a 4x4 and a plan!

Let us know how you get on.

__________________________________
The ex-Difflock Ambassador to Naples, Sir Nightbar DCJC DFS and 2 bars.

Plant a tree for the Difflock 3
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speedys
Gate Opener


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I'll keep u updated!
Looking at the pro-comp es9000 spring/shock kit?
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: newbie! shogun advice please! Reply with quote

speedys wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm new to 4x4's and need a little advise! Sorry if it's been asked b4!

Rightly or wrongly I've just bought a 99 swb 2.8 wide body shogun! Smile
i live 3 miles off a main road and main aim is to never get stuck in or out if we get snow etc over the winter! Will use it Daily but happy if it's noisey/sketchy on tarmac Smile
And have always been into big/monster trucks!
Been chatting to a friend who's got me interested in pay'play and g-landing!

My plan is
2.5" sus raise, Can u advice on best set up? There is raise kits on eBay but don't know quality?

No matter what you read on line, the absolute maximum you want to lift the suspension is about 38mm (1.5") unless you want to keep paying out for bearings CV joints and tyres
speedys wrote:

3 or 4.5" body raise

Everything you need is included in the mega kits - if you have questions ring us
speedys wrote:

33x12.5x15 on steel modulars
What tyres would u advise?

For what you are doing I'd go for mud tyres - I prefer BFGs MT other will choose other makes - BFGs are expensive but will last a long time. If you're going for new wheels as well you might find a greater range of tyres in 16" (Landrover size). Personally I think 12.5" is a bit on the wide size, I prefer 9.5" for extreme stuff and 10.5" for general off-roading - lanes etc. - don't be tempted by 13.5" as they are likely not to fit in deep tracks being too wide.
speedys wrote:


Got a budget of 1kish to start with!

Also will my new toy have rear and centre diff locks? It's a gls if that makes a difference!
Thanks in advance!


All Mk2 Shoguns & Pajeros come with super select transfer box - this means you get 2WD, 4WD high open centre diff, 4WD high centre diff-lock and 4WD low centre diff-lock. You will be able to change from 2WD to 4WDh at speeds up to 60mph (you have to stop to go into 4WDhl and 4WDll).

UK Shogun (and the odd one or two Pajero) usually come with rear diff-lock as standard - the switch for it is on the right side of the clock - it will only engage under certain conditions - from memory it has to be in 4WD low and stationary, but I can look it up for you if you need it, the control unit and pump is in the box on the rear right had side (I think) where the jack is stored.
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi thanks that's a great help!
Will be seeing my new toy tommorow!
It has rear diff lock! Smile

I understand what u mean about sus raise angles but am I right in thinking if it's mainly road use it will keep within factory angles, and only when off roading will it put excess load on joints etc?
I'm a mechanic and happy to replace bits when required!

Assuming I have the std 2.8 40mm (1.5") body raise, if I fit 4.5" spacers this will give me 3" additional height?
On the 2.8 are heater matrix hoses and rad mounts Etc different? Or just slightly more stretched? I.e Is body lift easier on this model?

I'm thinking patrol rear springs with rough country shocks??
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mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad its got a locker, that will get you a long way by its self.
Lift isn't everything!! the kit Xpajun hinted at will give you all the the clearance you will need for your bigger tyres, and any more lift than that is just a waste of time.
I haven't lifted my truck at all, and I wont! Just pulled arches etc to make space for bigger tyres.
Keep it low for good COG, and less angles on CVs and UJs to spend more time playing and less fixing Wink

__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get it but call me a kid but I won't an excuse to make a mini monster truck! Smile
If I make it high I'm assuming I'm more likely to roll it?

I Like the bfg mt as use the brand on cars, seem good alrounder and don't wanna go budget!
Friend suggested insane turbo?
Bfg mt don't do 10.5, only 33 12.5 15 Smile
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedys wrote:
Hi thanks that's a great help!
Will be seeing my new toy tommorow!
It has rear diff lock! Smile

I understand what u mean about sus raise angles but am I right in thinking if it's mainly road use it will keep within factory angles, and only when off roading will it put excess load on joints etc?
I'm a mechanic and happy to replace bits when required!

Lifting the front the front suspension is done by winding the torsion bar up this alters the camber and you end up running on the inside of the tyre - wearing it badly. The front hub of the Shogun has a needle roller bearing between the hub and the drive shaft to allow the hub to spin on the drive shaft - a torsion bar lift puts additional loading on this bearing breaking up the needles which then jam between drive shaft and hub.

The only thing just affected by being in 4WD is the CV joints - you won't notice their effect off-road but you probably will on road - which cuts out your using any of the 4WD mode on road - like in snow etc.

BTW it's not the changing of the parts that is the problem but the funding of them - tyres about £100 a corner is too expensive to be worn down within 6 - 12 months Wink
speedys wrote:

Assuming I have the std 2.8 40mm (1.5") body raise, if I fit 4.5" spacers this will give me 3" additional height?
On the 2.8 are heater matrix hoses and rad mounts Etc different? Or just slightly more stretched? I.e Is body lift easier on this model?

The extra 40mm lift on the 2.8 was done purely to shoehorn the 2.8 engine and gearbox in so if yours is a 2.8 then you will have a factory lift.

Theoretically for every inch of body lift you put on you will be able to run a tyre 2" bigger in diameter - the standard diameter for the Shogun was 29" (although 2.8 often had 31") So to be honest to run 33s on a 2.8 you'd get away with a 2" body lift but a 3" lift would be better
speedys wrote:

I'm thinking patrol rear springs with rough country shocks??


Biggest problem with Shogun rear coils is the diameter - which is 8" - I think patrols have a coil of 4" dia...

However fitting the coils off a LWB will give you about +2" and a harder ride Wink
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedys wrote:
I get it but call me a kid but I won't an excuse to make a mini monster truck! Smile
If I make it high I'm assuming I'm more likely to roll it?

I Like the bfg mt as use the brand on cars, seem good alrounder and don't wanna go budget!
Friend suggested insane turbo?
Bfg mt don't do 10.5, only 33 12.5 15 Smile


Although a body lift will alter the centre of gravity it's not so bad as it would be with a suspension lift as with a body lift you're leaving all the heavy bits - chassis, engine, gearbox and axles - in the same place - all you are lifting is the lighter body. and you can always fit wheel spacers...

So you wanna go high - my off-roader had a 4" body lift before I rolled it (nothing to do with the lift) the replacement body will probably have a 6" lift Wink Laughing

Insa turbos are remoulds and have a softer tread - if you were doing 90% off-road I'd suggest them but you aren't so I suggest BFG Wink

You will only get 12.5 on a 15" rim - you'd probably get 10.5 on a 16" rim (in fact I got an equivalent 9.5" on a 16" rim from Insa)
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Mr Tyre
Mr Tyre


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4957
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another point about Insa's is that their remoulds do have a tendency to big in diameter/width compared to new tyres.If you went for something like 31 x10.50R15 Insa Special Track, i would expect them to be at least 31.5-31.7 inches in diameter and around 11.25 inches of tread width which needs to be taken into account,including body/suspension clearance wise but more what your engine will pull.
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speedys
Gate Opener


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing but great advise, thank you!

I will at some point be needing 4x4 on road as planning to stay living in the country!
So if I run std lwb rear springs with +2" shocks all round! (Was thinking rough country?)
And wind front bars up a little untilll I fit bull bar and winch (then fit iron man hd bars!

4 1/2 body lift (elec fan, extended levers, extended matrix hoses etc)

And good 33's I.e bfg mt (can't find them in 10.5 so may go 12.5 unless I get metric of similar size?)

I'll prob get some cheap modulars
Any idea of how far they'll stick out
Past wide arch body?

Does that sound a fun set-up??
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would a genuine pair of lwb spring be way to go?
I can get at trade and claim vat back! Smile
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Tyre wrote:
Another point about Insa's is that their remoulds do have a tendency to big in diameter/width compared to new tyres.If you went for something like 31 x10.50R15 Insa Special Track, i would expect them to be at least 31.5-31.7 inches in diameter and around 11.25 inches of tread width which needs to be taken into account,including body/suspension clearance wise but more what your engine will pull.



Mr Tyre - you should know that ALL remould sizes are the size of the carcass before the tread is applied so a heavy tread as on the Insa Turbo Special Track will add nearly an inch of tread all around - thus making a 31 - 10.5 - 15 tyre a diameter of 33 inches (almost)
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just spoken to my tyre company,
They can do 33x12.5x15 bfg mt km2
For £116 each fitted and agreed they'd be quieter on tarmac but still good off road!
Seems a lot of tyre formoney compared to low profiles!
The 35" was £118 tempting! Smile
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at 10x15 steels I've found
Offset of -50 -44 -32 +32
Any advice?
Obviously if they are to far in I can space out but not other way round!!
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedys wrote:
Looking at 10x15 steels I've found
Offset of -50 -44 -32 +32
Any advice?
Obviously if they are to far in I can space out but not other way round!!



Assuming that +32 pushes the wheel away from the truck then that is what you want minimum - a bigger tyre will get closer to or rub the inner wing on articulation or full lock
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it's the other way!
0 of setis obviously the the hub matting surface being central in rim,
The higher the + in mm the further in the wheel is!
So the higher the - the further out they will sit!
My guys have no stock of 33 but have 35 Smile
So a 33 insa turbo prob is close to 35 bfg!
Can I getaway with that with a 4.5" body lift? Smile

Also I've read that 12.5 tyres should be fitted on a 8" rim as the bead gap is 10" so on a 10" rim there's not enough pressure in bead so it's more likely to pop a bead in the rough stuff! Is this true? Would innertubes help? As even if you pushed bead tyre wouldn't deflate?
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedys wrote:
I believe it's the other way!
0 of setis obviously the the hub matting surface being central in rim,
The higher the + in mm the further in the wheel is!
So the higher the - the further out they will sit!
My guys have no stock of 33 but have 35 Smile
So a 33 insa turbo prob is close to 35 bfg!
Can I getaway with that with a 4.5" body lift? Smile

Also I've read that 12.5 tyres should be fitted on a 8" rim as the bead gap is 10" so on a 10" rim there's not enough pressure in bead so it's more likely to pop a bead in the rough stuff! Is this true? Would innertubes help? As even if you pushed bead tyre wouldn't deflate?



This is the problem with quoting off-set the +/- can be either way Rolling Eyes officially at that Rolling Eyes

I try and quote and ask for backspacing - for a 8j wheel a 4" back spacing is 0 off-set, so 3" back spacing pushes the rim out by 1" and 5" back spacing brings the rim in by 1"
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll give ua call xpanjun in the week and see if u can sort me out with lift kit etc! Smile
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Mr Tyre
Mr Tyre


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4957
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedys wrote:
I believe it's the other way!
0 of setis obviously the the hub matting surface being central in rim,
The higher the + in mm the further in the wheel is!
So the higher the - the further out they will sit!
My guys have no stock of 33 but have 35 Smile
So a 33 insa turbo prob is close to 35 bfg!
Can I getaway with that with a 4.5" body lift? Smile

Also I've read that 12.5 tyres should be fitted on a 8" rim as the bead gap is 10" so on a 10" rim there's not enough pressure in bead so it's more likely to pop a bead in the rough stuff! Is this true? Would innertubes help? As even if you pushed bead tyre wouldn't deflate?


It's more like people put them on 8 inch wide rims because the rims are cheaper.8 inch rims are too narrow for 12.5 section tyres every tyre manufacturer will tell you that but if people use them on those rims so be it.Don't put inner tubes into them the inner surface will soon eat through them.
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mr tyre, confirmed what I though!
Any opinions on the 35" option?
Will the rear door hold a 35x12.5 spare? Lol!!
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Mr Tyre
Mr Tyre


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4957
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedys wrote:
Thanks Mr tyre, confirmed what I though!
Any opinions on the 35" option?
Will the rear door hold a 35x12.5 spare? Lol!!



I myself think that 35x12.50-15 are too big for a standard vehicle.
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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone advise on part no for the correct lwb rear springs I need for 2" raise?
Local dealer came come up with 41197?
Only 66.59 each too! Smile
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Trolllover
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't bother with putting +2" shocks on the front as it's not a live axle so you won't really get any benefit. Just keep the standard front shocks (or put standard length HD ones on) and put +2" shocks on the rear where you will get the benefit.
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speedys
Gate Opener


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right guys I need you're advice again!
I've ordered kyb lwb hd springs (as no one had std available,
Rough country shocks all round (rear 2+)
going 33's prob Cooper stt's as I've read good things!

Question is I need to order body lift kit by Monday!
Do I follow head and go 3" or heart at 4.5"

Don't want 2" but 3" is a lot more effort! Sad Always wanted to build big but will it compamise my offroading ability?
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** GED **
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Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big is beautiful....








its also expensive, a lot more work and maintenance and all the standard things, that you never thought of will be under sooooo much more stress.

also, are you going to use it on the road?

then check with your insurance. most say any mods, but when i went to them with a +8, what they actually meant was any mods up to +3.

i had to have a policy specially written at mucho cost.

most people do big lifts once, then learn their lesson.

a very well set up plus two or three will do pretty much anything you want. thats tru for 99% of marques

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speedys
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Joined: 01 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooooohhhff!
That's big! Smile
Will be using it for my winter commute 5 miles each wayv3 of which in country lanes!
Only going 2.5" on suspension so keeping down the excess wear!
In my eyes 3 or 4.5 body lift won't effect any wear just higher cog, and more likely to eat low branches! Smile
I've got trade insurance so covers me to drive anything! Smile

U would say 4.5"?
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** GED **
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 2039
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedys wrote:

I've got trade insurance so covers me to drive anything! Smile



actually, it doesnt.

if the vehicle has been modded outside of what the insurance companies deem as "acceptable", (which, in the day was 3" total) your policy is void.

ring them up and ask them.

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the other co-founder of the DCJC

Member of TEAM CHAOS
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speedys
Gate Opener


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Odometer: 24




PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Balls! Better check that! Sad
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** GED **
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 2039
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good move.

hopefully im wrong and its changed.

then you`re good to go Wink

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Member of TEAM CHAOS
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