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Telegraph Article on the demise of the Defender
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Nightbar
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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm    Post subject: Telegraph Article on the demise of the Defender Reply with quote

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/land-rover/defender/

Each to their own, live and let live and all that - but a bit harsh I thought.

Thoughts?

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

exactly what ive been saying for years.

starved of investment and bought by apologists that spout crap like "character" "iconic" "idiosyncratic"

lets be honest, its crap and has been for years.

it rusts in seconds, falls to bits, leaks, breaks down and rusts.

did i mention the rust?

yet it commands the most ridiculous prices because, invariably the apologists have more money than sense....


and before the apologists start, i`ll ask the same question that caused so much trouble last time.

is it acceptable for a three year old, 40 grand car to rust and leak?

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cynic-al
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1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed that Smile

I love the defender and always wanted one but could never bring myself to buy one as they're not good enough for an every day drive and too expensive for a play thing. It was always intended to be for farmers who like things basic and functional but a lifetime of underinvestment in the production line has led to enormous manufacturing costs. To put it into perspective I've worked for the same company for 10 years, when I started the company made around 10,000 parts in a 5 day week with 45 people and sold them for around 3 each. They now make 35000 parts in a 4 day week with 14 people and sell them for around 1 each. If the changes hadn't have happened the company would be here today.

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RichMayo
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1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting read - i think author tredding the line between being harsh and reviewing it for what it is fairly effectively.

Quote:
"But it's the last utility vehicle on sale," argued my good friend John, who owns one and drives it mostly off road. "That's not to say it's any good, just that there's nothing out there like it."


What does he mean by that? The first bit.
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.
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2009 Land Rover 110 CSW

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"That's not to say it's any good, just that there's nothing out there like it."

Sums it up for me

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Nightbar
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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this:
http://www.theworldofmachines.com/land_rover/rally-land-rover-defender-fifth-gear.html

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nightbar wrote:
Found this:
http://www.theworldofmachines.com/land_rover/rally-land-rover-defender-fifth-gear.html


your point?

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Nightbar
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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No point. Just sharing.
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gadgetboy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timely.

https://twitter.com/sniffpetrol/status/652488852372893696

@sniffpetrol wrote:
Sniff Petrol ‏@sniffpetrol 3h3 hours ago
Weekend plaything. Slow, expensive, utterly loveable. Also, on reaction thus far, coolest car in the world.



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cynic-al
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1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think by the last utility vehicle he's trying to say a basic nut and bolt vehicle without any frills... apart from the stuff they force on it to make it road legal like ABS. However he's implying that there aren't many people who are happy to go out and spend big money on something like that as they want all the beepy gadgety rubbish or they want a 6k dacia.

On that note we were driving down the motorway today and my wife said "Is that a Porsche like your boss has?" My reply "No, that's a Dacia, the difference between that and a Porsche Cayanne is that for the price of the Porsche you could have a Dacia for every day of the week and go on a round the world cruise with the change" Laughing

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jojo
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
exactly what ive been saying for years.

starved of investment and bought by apologists that spout crap like "character" "iconic" "idiosyncratic"

lets be honest, its crap and has been for years.

it rusts in seconds, falls to bits, leaks, breaks down and rusts.

did i mention the rust?

yet it commands the most ridiculous prices because, invariably the apologists have more money than sense....


and before the apologists start, i`ll ask the same question that caused so much trouble last time.

is it acceptable for a three year old, 40 grand car to rust and leak?
[

Well, yes and no. LR was starved of investment for years and this was a major problem.

Not really crap if you use them within the design intentions. Series and Defenders have served us well on the farm since the 1950s where they have been well used and abused - but also serviced properly.

Yep, they do rust a bit but with the use we give them they last as long as you can reasonably expect which is often better than the "Jap Crap". They do leak a bit but only when it pisses down and don't breakdown very often - apart from the one we (well, me really dropped in the stagnant lake - it stank to high heaven after and only worked on 3 cylinders))

The price is a bit high. But we use and abuse them, they are rarely out of low box and are often overloaded, so after about 3 years they can be a bit iffy MOT wise.

At the end of the day for farm and their intended design use they are at least as good as the competition - and there will always be swings and roundabouts when it comes to use as with farm use ect. there is really no like for like to make an honest comparison.

On road they are less comfortable than the far eastern stuff but as the working tool they were designed for there is nothing wrong with them.

I won't have to buy any more farm/working vehicles and our last Defenders will last out as I am jacking the working life in due to either winning the lottery or old age (you decide) so I won't have a replacement problem.

J

PS: MY F2 is really good on and off road.

[/b]
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** GED **
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres my recent experience.....

nightbar was coming to meet us at the adventure overland show in his LR....

it broke and he couldnt attend.

spannerman was two weeks overdue pickin his veg oil up for his landrover.

it broke and he couldnt make it.

one of my mates was trying to get from devon to the AO show in his 101...

it broke and he couldnt make it.

we`ll not mention richards sieve for fear of causing offense.....

jojo you are one of the few who use them for what they were actually intended, and to be fair, yes you would struggle to find something better suited to having sheep, pigs, pondwater, haylage, dung and drunk farmers ferried around in...

and i also love the term jap crap.....

jap stuff is so crap....

it was so crap it decimated the british motorcycle industry.....

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Nightbar
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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my defence that was the first mechanical failure of any description in 17 years and almost 250k (comfortable) KMs.

I could have just got her fixed in time but the priority was to get Mrs NBs Fiesta fixed as she was starting a new job the next week and we also needed it to do a 2 x 300 mile round trip with the kids over the weekend.

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Xpajun
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1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:


and i also love the term jap crap.....

jap stuff is so crap....

it was so crap it decimated the british motorcycle industry.....


Not to mention, in the case of the Mitsubishi Shogun, it very nearly killed off the Range Rover forcing Landrover to put together a vehicle made of left over Allegro and Sherpa bits - which they called a Discovery
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jojo
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:

and i also love the term jap crap.....

jap stuff is so crap....

it was so crap it decimated the british motorcycle industry.....


I was brought up on BSAs, Thunderbirds, Bonnevilles, Vincents, Nortons etc. Real Bikes with none of this cissy electric start nonsense! But the jap crap came a long and they were crap - but cheap. But they soon developed into the top bikes they are now. Brings tears to my eyes. If only the short termist British manufacturers had invested! Ironically it was a British designed and manufactured machine called a Rotund that allowed the jap manufacturers to achieve the engineering tolerences needed to make their bikes as good as they were.

J
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** GED **
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my dad used to work in a proper british bike shop, Arthur Hicklins in liverpool.

they used to supply merseyside police with all the nortons ect and we had ariel square four`s, commando`s and even a triton in the back yard.

then i started coming home on honda`s and suzukis and got all the rice burner and jap crap jibes.

but i never seem to recall having to fix them as much as the brit stuff.....

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nightbar wrote:
In my defence that was the first mechanical failure of any description in 17 years and almost 250k (comfortable) KMs.

I could have just got her fixed in time but the priority was to get Mrs NBs Fiesta fixed as she was starting a new job the next week and we also needed it to do a 2 x 300 mile round trip with the kids over the weekend.


dont apologise......

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jojo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
my dad used to work in a proper british bike shop, Arthur Hicklins in liverpool.

they used to supply merseyside police with all the nortons ect and we had ariel square four`s, commando`s and even a triton in the back yard.

then i started coming home on honda`s and suzukis and got all the rice burner and jap crap jibes.

but i never seem to recall having to fix them as much as the brit stuff.....


Yep, like I said jap crap became the tops. But for me at that time the fatalistic lure of what you could get up to on the back seat of a car meant that I never progressed on to jap bikes - but we all make mistakes!!!

J
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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jojo wrote:
** GED ** wrote:

and i also love the term jap crap.....

jap stuff is so crap....

it was so crap it decimated the british motorcycle industry.....


I was brought up on BSAs, Thunderbirds, Bonnevilles, Vincents, Nortons etc. Real Bikes with none of this cissy electric start nonsense! But the jap crap came a long and they were crap - but cheap. But they soon developed into the top bikes they are now. Brings tears to my eyes. If only the short termist British manufacturers had invested! Ironically it was a British designed and manufactured machine called a Rotund that allowed the jap manufacturers to achieve the engineering tolerences needed to make their bikes as good as they were.

J


I'd put my Triumph up against anything Jap of the same age and capacity. 600cc, 100bhp and handles like it's on rails. Speed 4 for the record.

My Buell on the other hand, handles wonderfully but let down in the same way as everything yank, the engine.

As for a real utility vehicle, if you've deep pockets you can still get a 70 series landcruiser new, or a mog Wink
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** GED **
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="dxmedia"][quote="jojo"]
** GED ** wrote:

I'd put my Triumph up against anything Jap of the same age and capacity. 600cc, 100bhp and handles like it's on rails. Speed 4 for the record.


what year?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
dxmedia wrote:

I'd put my Triumph up against anything Jap of the same age and capacity. 600cc, 100bhp and handles like it's on rails. Speed 4 for the record.


what year?


2005, hardly the golden era of British bikes, but they have learned and are up there with the best bikes around. Have a mooch around your local Triumph dealer there's some cracking machines now.

Speed triple is rated to be one of the best naked bikes of all time, the new tiger is a very viable alternative to the GS, the bonny and scrambler have the bearded hipsters covered, the sprint is regarded as one of the best sport tourers by some margin...

There's a new golden age of British bikes, just go have a look at the ariel ace for some eye candy.

See if you recognise any of the names here -

http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-v...nds/#.VhvSscs6_4J
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jojo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dxmedia wrote:
** GED ** wrote:
dxmedia wrote:

I'd put my Triumph up against anything Jap of the same age and capacity. 600cc, 100bhp and handles like it's on rails. Speed 4 for the record.


what year?


2005, hardly the golden era of British bikes, but they have learned and are up there with the best bikes around. Have a mooch around your local Triumph dealer there's some cracking machines now.

Speed triple is rated to be one of the best naked bikes of all time, the new tiger is a very viable alternative to the GS, the bonny and scrambler have the bearded hipsters covered, the sprint is regarded as one of the best sport tourers by some margin...

There's a new golden age of British bikes, just go have a look at the ariel ace for some eye candy.

See if you recognise any of the names here -

http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-v...nds/#.VhvSscs6_4J


Tempting, tempting, tempting: Where's my cheque book! I can afford the bikes and the insurance (which is cheap compared to a sports car) but could I afford the life insurance.

Oh ******! I wish I had never read this thread as I am either going to regret for ever not buying a good British bike or kill myself if I do buy one - or two plus a scrambler for the more difficult terrain on the farm.

J

PS: a scrambler really appeals for the farm but how do I justify it as instead of sheep we grow tree stock and they are very difficult to round up!
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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a custom t100 scrambler in the Edinburgh triumph dealer. It's frigging lovely. Don't know if it's on their website but gets my wallet twitching every time I see it. Fake twin cars with fuel injection. They've got this retro thing sussed.
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** GED **
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

all my experience of that era japs are either works hondas or works kwacks, (british supersport) so hardly fair of me to take you up on your offer. to be fair, i dont know enough about the new breed of british stuff, but i know that if you put a square four up against a GT 380, the poor old ariel is gonna come off worse.

but that new matchbox is something else Cool Shocked

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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We agree ?!?
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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=t100+scrambler...GUHPjF1TUTDbrM%3A

That's the t100 in Edinburgh. Sorry about the horrendous url, phone and all.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dxmedia wrote:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=t100+scrambler&client=ms-android-h3g-gb&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIzcKwqfK9yAIVwbgUCh200QCF#tbm=isch&q=t100+scrambler+edinburgh&imgrc=GUHPjF1TUTDbrM%3A

That's the t100 in Edinburgh. Sorry about the horrendous url, phone and all.


i was sayin to the missis that i fancied a new four stroke scrambler for some light laning....

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jojo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
dxmedia wrote:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=t100+scrambler&client=ms-android-h3g-gb&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIzcKwqfK9yAIVwbgUCh200QCF#tbm=isch&q=t100+scrambler+edinburgh&imgrc=GUHPjF1TUTDbrM%3A

That's the t100 in Edinburgh. Sorry about the horrendous url, phone and all.


i was sayin to the missis that i fancied a new four stroke scrambler for some light laning....


Why don't you do up the Squarial Ged, it will make an unusual scrambler. I knew a bloke who scrambled a Panther 650cc single long stroke slogger and he could keep up with the 250 Greaves. Don't think he won anything though.

J
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i always fancied another FT 500

you can do interesting things to them...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is a bit off topic, but I spent a couple of hours standing out in the bally cold (well I have just got back from warmer climes) watching The Vulcan, a Mk9 Spitfire and some other heavenly bodies giving a fine display.

Just lucky really as I didn't know it was going to happen. Heard this wonderful and unmistakable sound, looked up and there she was - trolling slowly through a hole in the clouds in a patch of perfect sunlight. Joy.

If only I could have my misspent youth again and in another misspent way!!!

J


PS: On the other hand given my record with aircraft perhaps it would be better if I were to avoid Vulcans!
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