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Turbo vitara
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very helpful thanks. Just looking at it now. Oil I'm pretty happy with now.

Debating if it's going to be easier to get at the fuel return below the manifold near the steering or there is a tube section near the rail. Just below iav. Probably the former as you say.

I think pic of where you've taken coolant from would be helpful.

I tell you what. There's Salisbury everywhere on mine. Either going to need to make the turbo match or give it all a Mr sheen. Keep telling myself get it running first!
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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My engine bay is filthy too Razz its okay its not on show 😂. Unfortunately I didn't get out this weekend because it's been ******* it down, and I don't fancy getting wet again like I have all week. Which sucks because we are scheduled for snow Thursday and Friday and I wanted to put my 31s on instead of my road tyres Sad.... Also I needed to fit my boost gauge and Manual boost controller.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ordered myself a boost gauge last night.

Set about getting the sump off last night. Ended up having to remove the front axle (expected), and the steering damper, and then undid the idler arm to get enough clearance to wiggle the sump out.

Unfortunately I managed to sheer the bolt under the oil filter. Pretty irritated as I was being pretty careful to start with as I was trying to avoid exactly that - and it didn't seem to take any force to happen. I think the sump has been off before as there's sealant everywhere - I'm wondering if it was over-tightened before. Going to try with a set of extractors but it's a pretty fine bolt... not convinced it's going to come out. Guessing its a trip to Suzuki to find a replacement bolt even if I do get it out.

Anyway i'll crack on tonight and weld the drain in.
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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichMayo wrote:
I think the sump has been off before as there's sealant everywhere


G series engines in Sjs and vitaras come out of the factory with just sealant and no sump gasket. That's not so say it hasn't been off before but a lot of people don't seem to be aware of this.

__________________________________
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3242



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichMayo wrote:
Guessing its a trip to Suzuki to find a replacement bolt even if I do get it out.





Should be a 6mm std metric thread which will lower the price tenfold Laughing Laughing although screwfix will probably want to sell you 10 of them Twisted Evil
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks folks! I thought it might be a fine thread but if that's the case there's a screw fix on the way home Very Happy

Thanks for the heads up on the gasket. I did some googling after I posted and found agreement with what your saying (no gasket) on fixkick.com. Not that I was about to find a gasket for it Smile I'm suspicious if someones tried to tighten it to stop a leak in the past. I'm just making excuses really - I was being gentle... honest!

Feel a bit guilty about hi-jacking your thread Sammy... I think i'll be back on topic with turbo related stuff soon and hopefully some pics if that's okay.
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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It confuses me a bit as well when there was no gasket! It's not a problem, hijack away! It's nice that hopefully this will be a thread to answer any questions about turning one of these engine, keep it all in one place you know. Maybe draw some new people into the forum Very Happy

So while driving home tonight I had a little race against a range rover sport, when I had to quickly stop for some traffic lights. As I was coming to a stop I noticed ALOT of smoke behind me, then there was a loud bang followed by more smoke. Left it to idle for a few second and the smoke cleared and I drove home normally.... Strange, will need to investigate this before the engine/turbo goes bang!
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't brake it before I even get mine together! Is it alright?

Have you got any idea how much boost it's running at? It must be pretty pokey if you can play with one of those.

Bit more progress tonight. I've been messing around trying to remove air con pump to make more clearance. That's all sorted now. Put hole in sump but didn't quite get to sticking it in.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update. Got it running with exhaust all hooked up. Not driven it yet but seems to be running okay. Fitting the kit itself didn't take too long. Messing with the sump took most of the time.

Other issue I had was surging and very uneven idle. I removed the idle air controller to get at the water line. In doing so I damaged the gasket but didn't realise. Eventually found the leak. So my fault more than anything. Gotta just say I messaged the seller quite a few times throughout and they were very responsive + helpful.

Got some more bits to sort out. Put boost gauge in cab, somehow shoe horn the air filter under the bonnet (not snorkeled for now), secure battery, refit front axle, deal with a leak in exhaust joint.

Exhaust wise I've got an MOT hopefully end of week so I've refitted stock cat. I used each end of the original down pipe. I welded top end of the original down pipe as a reducer to the new down pipe, welded that to a piece of flexi, and u bolted that onto bottom half of the original down pipe (still bolted to cat with flexible joint). I don't know how restrictive this setup will be...time will tell. Also got to renew insurance end of this week...looking forward to that one :s

I'll post some pictures soon.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay few pics...

Fitted kit ( got a few things to put in better places yet - but you get the idea )



Shows how close the original down pipe comes...



Turbo to BackOfCat



Course it's leaking on the bend. Had to go a lot closer to the bend than I wanted - think it was optimistic that it would seal right - so i'll probably just weld it on. Won't be too hard to remove whole section off of cat and turbo in the future.
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Undiplomatic
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 May 2010
Odometer: 483




PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome. How much more work left?
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got my MOT booked for tomorrow so got a deadline now. Got back at it last night with help from our regular "Wednesday Night Club" attendees Smile Good progress made.

Made up a mount for boost gauge and fitted to dash. Plumbed into power too so lights up and looks "bling".

Fitted a K&N cone filter instead of the piper cross enclosed filter I've been using. It's shorter and clamps directly to the MAF without an adapter so that now fits down in the bonnet.

Note to anyone else using this style of enclosed filter (I think it's a piper cross universal enclosed or something). Seal it yourself. Discovered the housing isn't actually sealed while testing for leaks - although any air that does get in through the housing is likely to be filtered on this model due to where the housing comes apart, but it just won't cut it with water if you go paddling deep. (not that I plan to play in much real deep water with this thing - not really a fan anyway)

Remove the entire section of exhaust shown in my pics above as one unit. Previously I fitted as two parts and clamped it - but wanted to test that I could remove it all as one part. Wasn't too bad. Then welded the joint where I previously clamped to stop leak. Was harder to fit back onto back of turbo. Trick is jacking the cat a bit. All fitted and the leak is gone.

Secured the batter with a ratched strap for now. Long term batteries are going elsewhere as they currently block my path to the snorkel (which I'm also planning on re-working).

Started it and everything seems to be running fine. Checked the timing again.

Just need to refit the front axle tonight and chuck on some new wiper blades and should be MOT ready.

Sam - whats the state of yours? Is it still surviving?
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undiplomatic wrote:
Awesome. How much more work left?


You still thinking about taking the plunge?

Something else I forgot to mention. The silicone adapter Sammy had to buy for the throttle seemed to be in my kit already.
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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, sorry I've not been too active! I've been trying to sort some insurance things out. Yeah, it's still running I'm not too sure what happened if I'm honest... Haven't really looked into it.

Your exhaust looks brilliant rich! Good luck with your MOT tomorrow. Kind of annoying that you got the adaptor and I didn't.... Oh well 😂. What kind of boost are you seeing?
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers - didn't seem to turn out too badly for what was bit of a bodge. It'll work for now anywho.

Got some more pics...

My sump in "oil leak spotting blue"... happens to match calmini sort of... note I had a bit of a leak around the oil drain. The rest is just sealant and grubby hands from fitting it.



Boost gauge...



Everything looking a bit tidier under the bonnet...



Got me wiper blades and some bulbs sorted for MOT. Axle went back in pretty happily once I remembered the "trick" to doing it.

Seems to drive without doing anything bad so should be on for the MOT later. I didn't boot it but it feels like it's pulling nicely. I've been driving my patrol long enough now that everything feels fast. My other halfs GV2000 feels rapid to me! I'll try and read what boost it's making on a proper test post-mot. Got a couple of hills in mind that I want to test it on to see what I gear it'll pull up them in.

All in all pretty happy. I'll be even happier if I get through the MOT.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went through mot with clean sheet. Insurance done.

I've seen about 6psi out of it so far. It's got a leak at the exhaust manifold which I'm currently sorting which can't be helping.

Also making a weird groan when I lift off throttle at low boost say around 2psi. Could be related to the leak.

Once I've sorted the leak I'm going to shorten the metal tube pre air intake as the angle of the bend is flattening one of the 90s.

Is there an accepted min distance recirculation valve should feed to post air filter?

Pretty sure it's pokier. Pulled up my test Hill happily in 4th somewhere around 30-40, which talking with a friend we're pretty sure it was more 3Rd before and drop to 2nd if really get it wrong. Same friend pointed out if I push the throttle down more it might go faster when we were seeing how well it picks up on flat...I was stopping at the point it used to make no difference beyond if you see what I mean...and it did go some more.
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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent news rich! Well done for passing the mot, do you have a afr gauge fitted at the moment?
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. It's on my todo list though. How much boost are you seeing by the way?
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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's definitely worth doing, I'm not sure as I'm too lazy to fit my boost gauge 😂😂😂😂
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mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boost gauge funny to give you some inspiration Very Happy


Link

__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.


Last edited by mike328 on Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Undiplomatic
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 May 2010
Odometer: 483




PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great stuff so far!
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike328 wrote:
Boost gauge funny to give you some inspiration Very Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEjwjGOPDE


Haha brilliant!!! Well I want one of those. Still trying to decide if I should put a comedy bumper sticker on there or not... I've already got the "It's not leaking oil, it's sweating power" sticker. More truth to that now at least.

Sammy, what AFR gauge you using? How much am I looking at spending? What's involved in hooking it in? This is new to me.

I think I've got the exhaust manifold sealed now. Still seeing about 6psi at the gauge though.

Still getting the groan (which I think may actually be a "moo" based on some googling) at low boost gently pressing on throttle - am a bit suspicious of the diverter valve doing something strange although everyone who's sat in the passenger seat tells me they think it's exhaust related.
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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike328 wrote:
Boost gauge funny to give you some inspiration Very Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEjwjGOPDE


That's amazing! Sod the gauge in doing that!



And rich I've got a innovate lc-1, was about 150 I think, real simple, just drill and weld on the fitting that's supplied into the downpipe. Screw the sensor in, wire up a gauge with, switched live, live and earth. Mount gauge and you're sorted! There's full instructions in the kit. I got a friend of mine to wire it in because... Well honestly electrics make no sense to me 😂 So I don't know where he found the wires unfortunately.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah that's more money than I was expecting. Might live without for the time being. Got enough other things to sort on it and some other plans for it now I'm all interested in it again.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still pursuing the noise on lift off. Think I'm getting somewhere so bit of a progress report...

Last night I moved my boost gauge to source post throttle as its actually a vacuum/boost gauge. Don't know why I didn't to this in the first place. With that in pretty sure I don't have a leak. Vacuum is strong with this one. A test drive suggest the noise occurring when vacuum of somewhere between 5-10inHg. I spent some time playing around blanking off various vacuum lines temporarily and test driving to see if anything was reacting badly to pressure changes. Trying very hard not to get distracted by the Bosch diverter valve at this point. Didn't seem to get anywhere.

Last thing I did was have a look inside the diverter valve so see the state of the seal. Have to say it looks dodgey to me. You can see a lip of the seal on varying edges never quite seats down right. I'm suspicious of this valve as it should be starting to open/close around the vacuum I'm hearing the noise. Anyways went back inside to google the sorts of pressures and behavior of the valve.

So here's what I think I've found. I think the valve was on the wrong way. From my reading the side port should actually be the one that receives boost and the bottom of the "barrel" goes to pre turbo. Apparently this is because this is not the piston style valve. (at this point a vaguely remember something when fitting an aftermarket valve to my skoda rs where I had to install it the "other way around"). This is contrary to the way the valve arrives in the kit attached to the inlet pipe, and also Sammy, I think you have it on the possible wrong way round too. If I understand correctly the boost pressure actually helps the valve to seal closed, rather than push the diaphragm open. People do run them the other way around, and on some of the Audi's it looks like they even flip them around for some reason to improve behavior. I think it's a fairly reasonable mistake as most folks upgrading are going to be putting a piston style valve on there - so the common way of seeing these things will be in the possibly wrong orientation for this valve.

I flipped it over this morning and it has definitely changed things. The noise is still there but much harder to recreate - and I was getting pretty good at generating it last night. I've also noticed I can hear it opening more clearly to re-circulate boost. I'm still not convinced it's working right. Performance-wise I couldn't say if it's making any difference - but then I didn't hammer it as I was trying to test for the noise.

I wonder if the situation is worsened by the setup running non-intercooled, and with a relatively short length between throttle and turbo.

For what its worth on the initial test runs before I cut the 1" hose on the valve to length I didn't notice the noise. It's possible it just didn't happen or I was paying attention to other things. I haven't quite got my head around why longer hose on the re-circ side would improve the situation.

Looking at the interweb people really seem to slag off these valves and recommend upgrading. As far as I can tell some people are saying it because it ain't bling enough to have under the bonnet or doesn't make a convincing enough sound - others say they aren't reliable. Reading through some of the tests folks have done using air lines testing movement etc. they seem to come up pretty well against after market valves... but a lot of those folks doing those tests do seem to comment on reliability. Who knows... just wish I still had my skoda rs still so I could do a quick swap!

It's also occurred to me that I probably am seeing around 6/7 psi as the needle on my gauge seems to be at rest before zero - and that's a pretty reasonable figure. Googling the golfs 1.8t running this turbo at 150hp they seem to be running around this level of boost.

Anyway bit of a ramble there. Thoughts folks?
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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a bloody brilliant ramble and a productive night. I'll have to look into it and change mine around see what difference it makes. You'd think as it came all pretty much assembled it would be assembled correct!
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yah you'd think so. The instructions are bit vague as it just refers to outlet. Willing to go with benefit of the doubt as I thought it was right until I really spent some time googling it. Just sending a message to DWR to see what they think. Currently sourcing another valve to see whether or not the valve is at fault itself.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay - I've solved the noise. It was the diverter valve. My replacement Forge valve arrived this morning. Swapped it over before the drive into work - didn't hear a single moo. Instead I know have a more appropriate noise when I lift off the revs at any amount. A not too loud ptssh. It seems my vac/boost gauge is being a lot more consistent now also. To be honest everything feels a lot smoother. Wouldn't say there is more peak power but delivery of that power just seems smoother when progressively giving it more. It now kinda reminds me of my old Octavia RS.

I think the Bosch valve was in some way faulty to be honest. It's not like the boost levels are significant enough to warrant needing a performance valve.

So I'm happy. Here are some pics...

Unboxing...


This bit is rubber on the Bosch valve and you can see that the lip on the seal never seems to go down quite right ... (unfortunately not got a pic of the other valve handy - i'll try to get one later)



Fitted...

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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good! How much was it do if you don't mind me asking. What did DWR say? I've now sorted another car so will no longer be using this as my daily! Huraaaah, maybe I can make some more power now Razz
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/Turbo_Recircul...product--756.html

So kinda pricey. But they're serviceable so pretty much a lifetime purchase....unless you forget you installed it on a car and then sell it (like my rs...doh). You get uprated springs with it but I think most people stick with the green spring even on much higher boost vehicles. Might be able to find it for less elsewhere and there's probably other options. But forge is only half hour up motor way from me so figured it would arrive in post quick.

DWR haven't got back to me yet. Pretty much keeping them posted with all the info I'm writing here. Facebook messenger says they haven't read my message yet.

Just done a run up motor way to other side of Gloucester and back. The truck is just plain better with this setup. I hope it lasts. I've started collecting some bits to do some more things to the truck now I feel like I've resolved the on road power issues Smile

While I was up there I did a bit of offroading. Carting some tools and hay back n forth for my sis. Had a play in low range etc. Obviously it takes off if plant it (or sits still and spins). Had a play in 4H. Only thing to report really is I think the clutch may have slipped a bit when I was trying to do an awkward bit of reversing and opened it up.

Think my tyres have seen some better days. Are you on 31's did you say? You reckon it'd pull 33's pretty happy with this setup on the road?
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