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racial abuse...
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** GED **
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:37 pm    Post subject: racial abuse... Reply with quote

does anyone know of a case of racial abuse being committed against a white person that made it to court?

thats white british under the right to define ones identity for the pedants....

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mike328
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive never heard of it...

can you actually be racist against a "majority race" by law?
statistically the majority of the world is Caucasian (I goolgled it)... or is it/should it be more just about colour of skin, origin and beliefs, regardless of whether you're out numbered or not??

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be amazed if it had.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No ged because that's not racism it's positive discrimination, a concept of Tony Blairs' time to make natives truely resent the swarms of johnny foreigners and isolate them from any opportunity of integration.
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absquatulation
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really can't be arsed to look through this for you.

http://www.bailii.org/

If it's not there then it doesn't exist, or it's not worth quoting.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good site!
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** GED **
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for that.

will spend a cross eyed afternoon having a look.

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A personal bugbear of mine, Ged. I have constant battles with our local school, local authority and others on the way they bleat about anti-racism and then discriminate against the majority based on skin colour/religion. The irony could melt steel!

I take it you are looking at England/Wales rather than UK wide given the difference in laws. A cousin of mine is a human rights lawyer in London and I can ask her if you can pm me a few details so I can give her some context.

Can't promise anything, she's an odd f**ker - even by my standards!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have to be careful as its sub judice, or will be shortly..

ill be as vague as possible.

a person who would be identified by others as white english was racially abused by a person who has the characteristic appearance of what people may describe as middle eastern.

this was witnessed by two independent parties.

there was no violence involved on either side.

the question i was puzzling was.....

how far would the police take the complaint, and is there a lot of these cases, compared to the other way round?

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First ... I am not a lawyer.
Second ... I have, limited, experience in this exact scenario both work and non-work related so it may not be relevant.

In theory everyone is treated the same way in the eyes of both the Law and the Police but we all know that some folks get better protection mainly because they are much more often the target of racial abuse, however it far from unknown for those of 'ethnic' origin to be racist themselves.

In Scotland we have laws against sectarian (ie intra christian) abuse which came from football hooliganism and these are taken very seriously. Anti-semitic abuse is also taken very seriously no matter the origin. Equally, I do know of 'white' people who have suffered racially motivated attacks by non-whites here in Glasgow but the case was more easily pursued because it was physical.

I would suggest that the lengths the Police would take it would depend on the seriousness of the abuse. e.g. a bit of serious name calling would barely register but threats of violence on the basis of the colour of your skin would come under a number of headings including 'public order offences' and therefore be both taken seriously AND have more chance of successful prosecution.

If the perpetrator(s) have a record of such behaviour (of which you may have no knowledge) then the Police will take even more interest.

If it was work related, ie it happened at work or was a customer abusing you, then you have a whole different set of laws coming into play.

I have no idea of the chances of successful prosecution but it can seldom go wrong to report it in case it is part of a pattern.

I hope that helps

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will know more tomorrow.

cheers.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tell you what i have learnt though, people are really afraid to discuss racism. Think
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cynic-al
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh heck yes, when I was a student there was a large group of "British Asian" who everyone in a civil type role were afraid of. They were the stereotypical 'is it cos i'm black?' people. The white middle class librarians would come down on you like a ton of bricks if they caught you talking yet they would sit there shouting at each other, listening to each others ring tones and generally larking about. I once confronted one of the librarians and she completely denied their existence despite them 15 feet from her and playing ball in the 'quite zone'.

It was exactly the same in housing, night clubs, etc etc. It was like confronting them would get them an incurable disease that would effect their whole career so it was better to tell you to shut up then get them to stick to the rules.

That's why this Rotherham grooming thing didn't shock me that it was happening, it shocked me that it wasn't common knowledge and something that everyone knew to keep away from.

It's also why, in my opinion, integration has failed a part of society and why there is a rise in BNP, UKIP, EDL etc etc. In my opinion if they'd just said everyones the same, here are the rules, stick to them, we would be in a much better place.

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well heres a shocker,

Merseyside police have decided that the law is indeed colour blind and are proceeding as such.

will give full story after its dealt with.

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've asked the statistics question of my human right lawyer cousin .....
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ed
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merseyside police are colour blind and operate racial equality.


Not like they don't have a history of beating people up no matter what colour or disability. Or even their own off duty colleagues.

slater Street

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was working that night on the Jac.....



thanks richard, would be interesting.

ive already been unofficially told im one of a very very few.

and to be fair, they are dealing with it well so far.

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ed
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was visiting the now ex so will of been in The Swan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some clever legal person will know better than me but as far as I can recall the original 1960’s Race Relations Act only legislated for discrimination against so called “ethnic minorities” of immigrant origins on grounds of race and skin colour of people of immigrant origin. This legislation was much needed and justifiable, however a notable omission was that it only worked one way, that is discrimination against a “white” member of the indigenous population was not made an offence.

Later, subsequent legislation added such things as religion, gender and SPAM orientation and is currently embodied in the Equalities Act. This Act which overall is good in intention, but, in my opinion is prejudiced as I believe it requires that if a situation can be construed as potentially detrimental to one or any ethnic or such group as prescribed then the benefit must be given to the so called ethnic or prescribed group. This, in my opinion is unjustifiable discrimination and is racist, or whatever, against the majority parts of the population. It does not simply accept that there are differences that should be respected in the different parts of the population, it demands that certain sections are given preferential, or favourable treatment on the basis of being in a minority group.

Over the years the politically correct “brigade” and some ethnic groups have exploited “politically correctness” and used it in a racist way to distort what racism really is; that is to express an opinion that comments on racial issues and culture is considered to be racist irrespective of the comments or views raised. This is in much the same way as Health and Safety legislation has been misinterpreted by many misguided people who do not have a grasp or understanding of the legislation to ban so many everyday activities such as playing conkers! Some ethnic and religious groups have exploited this situation in a racist and discriminatory way in favour of their respective groups. Regrettably this has led to a stifling of discussion and free speech and to an implied and accepted situation that any discussion in respect of immigration, race and more recently religion is discrimination. So much for our principal of freedom of speech!

A glaring example of this the use of the N and P words. I think we all agree that the N word is completely unacceptable, but why is it that one ethnic group can get away with using it when referring to someone of their same ethnic group? There was a recent case where a “white” man was reported for greeting his “black” friend in the street with “Hello N-word”. It went to court and the case was eventually dismissed as it was accepted that black people used that word amongst themselves in a friendly way and that the white man had used it in similar vein and was completely acceptable to his back friend and the black community.
Similarly the P word is used by the Pakistani community, however if a member of the indigenous community uses the P word as an abbreviation of Pakistani, which it clearly is, then the Pakistani community consider it to be racist. Dual standards: The word “Brit” is used as an abbreviation for the word “British” or “Briton”. If this is allowable then why can’t P*** be used as an abbreviation for Pakistani? There is only one explanation: Racism, aided by political correctness, ignorance and the fear to speak out and voice your own opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point, well made
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this coming from a sasanach.
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got an answer, Ged, look it up from the ONS (Office of National Statistics).

According my [not so helpful] cousin, it is relatively common for there to be successful prosecutions for situations like yours ... at least in places like London, Leicester, Bradford ....

From the point of view of someone who has been at the butt end of this kind of stuff all my life, Jojo brings up and interesting point which basically boils down to context.

Pakistanis referring to each other as "Paki" is fine because they are unlikely to mean it pejoratively and if they do it then the word 'paki' is not the main adjective. The same with Jews calling each other 'yid' etc etc. The same description coming from someone outwith that cultural group is highly likely to have the emphasis on the 'paki' or 'yid'.

Black folk using the word '-' is slightly different; they often use it pejoratively but on a social level. For example the whole Chris Rock stand up routine ....

On a personal note I have close friends who make 'jew' jokes about me to me but even though they come from a good place and are genuinely funny, I cannot help but find them upsetting (but I don't show it for fear of offending them) because from ANYONE else they would be deeply offensive. The problem arises when others see that banter as justification for being racist to others. My daughter faces this every day at school from classmates who say the most disgustingly antisemitic things and then justify it by saying "but I say the same things to Johnny Cohen and he finds them funny".

Context is everything I suppose.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with the emphasis being on context.

we all make jokes amongst our regular friends, and a lot of those jokes would land us in court....

but

we laugh it off as the context is non confrontational and intended as a joke.

when the same words are meant as an insult, as part of a threat or to deliberately target an individual then it becomes wrong.


for example...


an insect flew in through my window today and exploded....

i think it was a jihaddy longlegs.


now that was told to me by a british muslim, in front of three other british muslims, a bangladeshi, an indian and a kurd.

and the evertonian, but we dont talk about him.....



again, we all laughed, groaned or shook our heads, because in that setting it was accepted that we were all treating each other as equals.


apart from the evertonian...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nigga seems to be an ok word if it's part of a song in the top 40 though! Rolling Eyes

Talk about perpetuating a problem....

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

They are remaking "The Dam Busters". I have read that the dog's name has been changed to "Digger". I find that goes against my culture, as Brits do not make a habit of obliterating all memories of our ebenies - we do not destroy statues, for instance.

My teenage grandson wears a T-shirt with the logo "Smile ... and kill a Zombie!" Surely that is offensive to a Zombie. Sorry. I can't think of the name of the reliion than believe in zombies.

602

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

w3526602 wrote:
I can't think of the name of the reliion than believe in zombies.

602


appleists


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

w3526602 wrote:
Sorry. I can't think of the name of the reliion than believe in zombies.

602


A religion that is based on the dead returning from the grave? That would be Christianity, surely Twisted Evil

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically it was a tomb.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gadgetboy wrote:
Technically it was a tomb.


Technically, it's a fairy story Twisted Evil

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racial or religious aggravation – statutory provisions

1. Sections 29 to 32 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 create specific racially or religiously aggravated offences, which have higher maximum penalties than the non-aggravated versions of those offences.

The individual offence guidelines indicate whether there is a specifically aggravated form of the offence.

2. An offence is racially or religiously aggravated for the purposes of sections 29-32 of the Act if the offender demonstrates hostility towards the victim based on his or her membership (or presumed membership) of a racial or religious group, or if the offence is racially or religiously motivated.

3. For all other offences, section 145 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 provides that the court must regard racial or religious aggravation as an aggravating factor.

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