Mile marker winch issue

Underground Frog · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: Mile marker winch issue

Hi, I wonder if I can get some advice
I have a new motor with a mile market hydraulic winch fitted, but today I tried to use it and all it could do was take up the slack but not pull, is it because its not been used in a long time or should I be looking deeper.
I must confess I've never used a winch before ,so any advice would be great.

I'm sure its noting serious, as these are bullit proof I've been told...

teamidris · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject:

Normally I would say the main relief valve had stuck open, but I am tempted to go way less technical and suggest the high-speed or the low-speed thingy's havn't dropped into gear? Drag can be wicked on them so it will reeve-in in free spool if the greece is thick

teamidris · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:22 pm Post subject:

This shows what is in there pin wise better than any workshop manual.

Link

What you want on there is a pressure gauge. Great for setting the pressures, fault finding, or just to show how near to full-pull you are.

Without the over-run block on the motor it should turn with compressed air, if you get really stuck. My favorite test tool was a bucket. Just pop hoses, fire it up and see what comes out Laughing

(But don't inject yourself with high pressure oil, as it will hurt for a few days, and then you'll probably die)

Underground Frog · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:07 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the info so far.
I've tested the plunger engage correctly, the winch will pull my 90 on the flat (just) and then stop for some reason.

Can I ask? If the winch hasn't been used in ages does the clutch slip?

Underground Frog · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:08 pm Post subject:

Is there someone on here that could service it for me?

teamidris · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:23 pm Post subject:

Service is a bit of a pig as there at least 2 types of plastic drum bearing, but you could do it yourself if you got it off the truck. (Order both types) There really is nothing in there and it only has one planetary gear set. You can't do anything with the motor, so that leaves the gear end to check and greece. I wish i could find the service guide link on another forum, as it shows how it is step-by-step.

Back to the initial problem; It has no clutch so it either works or doesn't. I only get a part pull when it is in high-gear, then the pressure maxes out. For high gear the top pluger is up and the end one in?

If it isn't free-wheel plungers it could be a stripped drive spline? Trouble is that could be at the pump end or the motor end. And it would take some doing to break. So I think unlikely. Pop the motor off and see if all looks good that end.

Has it plenty of oil in the tank?

Too far for me to pop and have a look Sad

Forgot to ask, is it power steering or PTO pump driven?

teamidris · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:39 pm Post subject:

"I wish i could find the service guide link on another forum, as it shows how it is step-by-step."

Billhooks, it's there but the pictures are gone Sad

This helps a bit more and shows how the gears are integral to the drum assembly http://www.firstfour.co.uk/products/winches-and.../milemarker-parts

dxmedia · Mud Obsessed Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185

What's the pump? The power steering pump?

Underground Frog · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:39 pm Post subject:

dxmedia · Mud Obsessed Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185

If you've only just bought the truck, it's plumbed in through the power steering pump, and its not working, well, I'd be looking at the hydraulic pump myself.

Underground Frog · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject:

jamie_grieve · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:39 pm Post subject:

Good advice so far but if you could be a little more specific on the pump it would be good.
Can you post some pictures of the front of your engine?
It could be it's working from the power steering pump which is just a little vane pump and might be on the way out or it could be there's an auxiliary pump on your engine with an electrical clutch on the front like an AC compressor. Look for an oil tank hidden somewhere and see where the pipe goes or follow the pipes from the winch and valve block and see where they go.

Underground Frog · Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:03 pm Post subject:

teamidris · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:40 am Post subject:

"the truck starts too dip under load and then it just stops"

Aha, that does sound like relief valve! When I say no clutch I mean no actual mechanical clutch or brake in the normal sence.
But mine has an MRV (main relieve valve) in the valve with the levers/handles. So yours will be be in the power steering pump. If it does steering okay, then the MRV must be okay?
I also have an ARV (auxillary relief valve), which is like a fuse for the winch only. My two winches have one each. This valve is also an over-run-valve. And hope my description is up to this, because this valve won't let the rope out without pressure. But cleverly the valve can hold all the rope force and be lifted by a fifth of the hydraulic pressure. You see them on cherry pickers and thinks so the thing fails to a safe locked position. I guess it is like the hydraulic equivalent of a spot light relay.
This is where my helps falls over, as yours is an electric solenoid valve and I don't know where the over-run valve is or what it looks like in that app Sad

But say that the pressure gauge really is a thing to have to see 'inside' Very Happy

teamidris · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:50 am Post subject:

http://milemarker.com/pdf_downloads/70series_instructions.pdf

Try page 3, it says that the over-run protection is a little disk thing in the valve block, which is well different to my typeR.

Underground Frog · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject:

The pipes go into the power steering pump, there is only one brown reservoir here are a few pics of the pump, the solenoid and winch..

The valve must be working as it take up the load and holds it, but doesn't pull?

jamie_grieve · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:30 pm Post subject:

The picture of the pump is not working Sad

Pressure gauge as Steve says is a must really to do anything with hydraulics.

Underground Frog · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject:

Here a picture of the steering pump from the underside, as I could not get a picture from above, hope this helps?

Underground Frog · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject:

Here is a short video of the pump, the last comment I made saying pipes go to solenoid, that pipe goes to reservoir, appart from that there is not other pump.

dxmedia · Mud Obsessed Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185

Your going to need to get a gauge on that really.

Underground Frog · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject:

Ok, so I'm going to get a inline gauge fitted next to solenoid or next to winch, what am I looking for regards to pressure?

dxmedia · Mud Obsessed Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185

Look at the mm website and see what the winch needs.

If the circuit is providing that from the pump, then the problem is the winch.

If the pump pressure is down it isn't the winch.

Very simplistic, but I'm sure you get the score.

Personally, I wouldn't use a ps pump for a winch, for two reasons.

1. They don't have the flow.

2. ANYTHING GOES WRONG AND ITS THE STEERING.

For the sake of a tank of diesel (£100?), get a pump and tank, and run a separate belt off a pulley.

dxmedia · Mud Obsessed Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185

Just a thought, are you doing off of this on idle?

What happens if you brink the revs to 2k?

Underground Frog · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:13 pm Post subject:

dxmedia · Mud Obsessed Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185

Start reading here

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mile+marker+hy...w=768&bih=928

To fit a secondary hydraulic pump you need to make two brackets and run a new belt. Again I'm simplifying things, but not too much work.

Find out what's going on. Find out what should be goin on.

Learn to hate the previous owner (the PO)

Do it right.

Underground Frog · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:57 pm Post subject:

I've been reading and I've seen a ZF74 mentioned, would this be a direct replacement to OM pump?

mudplugga · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:44 pm Post subject:

I think the ZF74 can be found on older German BMW's, Merc's and Audi's with a V belt rather than the Poly V found on the new pumps.

teamidris · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:56 am Post subject:

"Ok, so I'm going to get a inline gauge fitted next to solenoid or next to winch, what am I looking for regards to pressure? "

Power steering seems to be about 1500psi. Owt below 1000psi would be low.

You fit a 'T' fitting between pump and valve with a length of 1/4" rubber hose to a point you can see the gauge on the end. That shows pulling-pressure (or steering pressure) and if you blank the hoses to the winch motor it shows full-system-pressure.
If blanking the hoses with stop-ends is followed by running the winch with both pegs engauged, to lock the winch, the difference in pressure would be motor leakage. (hoping the gear pins are good)
This full-on pressure test should be no worse than holding the steering on full lock for the pump.

If you want a quick reading, with less fittings, you remove the winch lines and pop the gauge on the end of the hose. That just reads full system pressure.

Underground Frog · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject:

I have been speaking with a winch specialist down south, who said its more than likely The steering pump would not work the winch on high setting anyhow, but should work the MM on low setting.

john1961 · Gate Opener Joined: 19 Jan 2013 Odometer: 33

just a thought if there was a problem with the pump .....wouldn't the steering also suffer ......ie get heavy to turn ???