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Privateer Guest
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:55 pm Post subject: Q for YDNP
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One for the RoW experts. I'm trying to trace the legality of the following lane in the YDNP, its a short track about 0.25 miles long and runs from Cam High Rd at SD849837 to Oughtershaw Rd at SD858834, any advise welcome. TIA
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suzuki-dave Winch Assistant
Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Odometer: 52
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject:
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This one -
OS Landranger (2014) just gives it as the pink dots signifying some kind of public access, but there's no underlying RoW, so your best bet would be the county's RoW Officers...
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Privateer Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject:
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Cheers mate, I'm based on the fact that on Trailwise its shown as vehicular RoW, but can find nothing to prove this. However on enhanced satellite mapping it shows signs of quarrying and definite wheel ruts in some parts, could it be ..................
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LlaniGraham Mud Obsessed
Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Odometer: 2701 Location: Llanidloes
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:43 pm Post subject:
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Other Route with Public Access, (ORPA) so will probably not be listed on the Definitive Map, but should be included on the "List of Streets" held by the Highways Dept.
__________________________________ MSA Radio WORCESTER 1
4x4 Response Wales |
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Privateer Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject:
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I thank you, and will pursue. Are we saying that Trailwise are unreliable then?
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LlaniGraham Mud Obsessed
Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Odometer: 2701 Location: Llanidloes
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:43 pm Post subject:
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Not at all.
An ORPA can have vehicular access.
Trailwise is just a record of vehicular RoW's of all types.
__________________________________ MSA Radio WORCESTER 1
4x4 Response Wales |
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Privateer Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:48 pm Post subject:
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RRRR, the thick plottens
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LlaniGraham Mud Obsessed
Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Odometer: 2701 Location: Llanidloes
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:35 am Post subject:
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Privateer wrote: | RRRR, the thick plottens |
Why?
What is so difficult to understand?
Simplistically speaking on an OS map there are 2 "non-road" routes that can be used by vehicles; BOATs and ORPAs.
BOATs are on the Definitive Map and are dealt with by the Rights of Way Depts.
ORPAs are generally not on the Definitive Map but should be on the List of Streets and are dealt with by the Highways Dept.
Trailwise is an independent register of vehicular Rights of Way of all types, with the details raised by members of the public, and which may have been checked for legality by those that "own" the list. Because of that it cannot be a definitive list and they warn you of that on the site.
__________________________________ MSA Radio WORCESTER 1
4x4 Response Wales |
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suzuki-dave Winch Assistant
Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Odometer: 52
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:54 pm Post subject:
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Therefore... we normally ask the county's RoW officers, if they do not know they pass it on to highways... and we get an email back from one or the other... mostly both!
Remember that they are public servants, working for the councils, for us the public, and most are very, very approachable, and often very helpful
Particularly our local council, Conwy, who's senior RoW officer has been out 'laning with us to see what we do!
http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/out-for-a-few-rows/blog_208.html
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mtc500 Winch Assistant
Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Odometer: 50 Location: nr Otley
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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:54 am Post subject:
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North Yorkshire County Council's Online Mapping Service shows the lane in question to be an Unclassified Road, the reference for the route is U1982/2/50 -use this reference if you wish to contact NYCC regarding the route. With it being a UCR it will be the Highways dept you need.
On the ground, I've noticed that there are vehicle tracks where the route meets Cam High Road, although I have never driven it.
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LlaniGraham Mud Obsessed
Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Odometer: 2701 Location: Llanidloes
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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject:
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mtc500 wrote: | North Yorkshire County Council's Online Mapping Service shows the lane in question to be an Unclassified Road, the reference for the route is U1982/2/50 -use this reference if you wish to contact NYCC regarding the route. With it being a UCR it will be the Highways dept you need.
On the ground, I've noticed that there are vehicle tracks where the route meets Cam High Road, although I have never driven it. |
Which confirms what I said, that it will be on the "List of Streets", under that reference.
__________________________________ MSA Radio WORCESTER 1
4x4 Response Wales |
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Privateer Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject:
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Thank you gentlemen, seems I've been relying too much on pre determined info instead of getting off my ass to find it myself.
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suzuki-dave Winch Assistant
Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Odometer: 52
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject:
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Privateer wrote: | Thank you gentlemen, seems I've been relying too much on pre determined info instead of getting off my ass to find it myself. |
To put it another way... you need current information instead of the historic written / word of mouth
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Privateer Guest
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject:
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Hah I did it, I actually asked NYCC a Q re RoW on two lanes, a first for 40+ years laning, I'm a god, and off to mount Olympus as we speak, never more will I be a mere mortal listening to rumours
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Privateer Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject:
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Ok guys in reply to my Q, this from the YDNPA warden
Widdale Foot RD1R. SD82478783 to SD79468626. This is a UUR and is presumed to have vehicular rights along it. There is no right to take vehicles beyond the North Yorkshire county boundary into Cumbria. The Cumbria section of this route is bridleway only.
Fleet Moss U1982. SD84948376 to SD85788348. This is recorded as a UUR and is presumed to have vehicle rights. On the ground, the route is currently obstructed (locked & narrow gates), but passable to walkers.
I hope this helps
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Privateer Guest
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject:
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OK so mount olympus has become quite lonely, we're planning another dales trip in the next couple of weeks and I've emailed NYCC re the RoW from Middlesmoor to Arkleside, its shown as a partial BOAT and possibly a UCR. I know from recent history that its status keep changing re TRO, anyone got any news before I pester NYCC further.
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