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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: New VED tax disc display rules
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So this came up in conversation in the office today. Let's see if I have it right ...
Firstly we still have to pay the VED but
- until the end of September 2014 you will buy it and get it as normal
- from 1st October, when you buy it (either annually of bi-annually) you won't actually get one and no one will need to display their tax disc any more
- from 1st November 2014 you'll be able to pay for it annually, biannually or monthly by direct debit (5% surcharge for 6 monthly or monthly)
- For historic vehicles (1960 onwards) the annual palaver of 'applying for your tax disc' becomes, essentially, a declaration that the car is still in use and on the road and has a current MOT.
- for pre 1960 vehicles it becomes a declaration that the car is still in use and on the road (no MOT nor Tax required)
- Historic vehicles not 'buying' VED must be declared SORN or you'll get a fine!
Note: Tax exemption is now on an over 40 years old basis ie currently vehicles manufactured before 1st April 1974
I've perused the DVLA site and spoken to them about historic vehicles, have I missed anything?
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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w3526602 Difflock Royalty
Joined: 10 Jun 2002 Odometer: 10758 Location: Glynneath, South Wales
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject:
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Hi,
The latest is that vehicles over 30 years old will not need an MOT.
Blast! That will reduce the supply of Land Rover Series 3 parts, and ealy TD/TDi engines, for my 1959 S2.
My mate Fred in the Swansea Valley heard the Chancer anounce in the budget (1995ish?) that cars over 25 years old would be VED exempt. So he jumped into his A35, drove into town, got collared by the local Plod. He explained about the budget ... would you believe he got away with it?
Plod then asked about the lack of indicators. Fred explained that the car had semaphore indicators. "What are seven and four indicators?" ask Plod.
602
602
__________________________________ Don't force it, use a bigger hammer, cos if it doesn't fit, the hammer is not big enough. |
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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject:
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w3526602 wrote: | Hi,
The latest is that vehicles over 30 years old will not need an MOT.
602 |
From the gospel according to HMG
Cars and Motorcycles manufactured before 1960 do not require an MOT.
https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/vehicles-exempt-from-mot
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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Twiss Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Odometer: 6438 Location: Birkirkara, Malta
1993 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject:
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My tax runs out at the end of september so think I will buy a 12 month tax disc before I can't get one any more...
I only bought a tax disc holder recently (changed windscreen) and want to get the most out of my £2.50!
__________________________________ Twiss
'95 Samurai 416 16v
'92 Maruti Gypsy MG410
www.suzukiclubuk.co.uk |
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Nightbar Difflock Royalty
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Odometer: 20799 Location: In a state of anticipation...
1999 Land Rover Defender
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject:
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I have instructed Mrs NB to display our Italian bollo in our now redundant tax disc holder just to see if anyone notices. Anyway, it's much prettier
__________________________________ The ex-Difflock Ambassador to Naples, Sir Nightbar DCJC DFS and 2 bars.
Plant a tree for the Difflock 3 |
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cynic-al Mud Obsessed
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Odometer: 6062 Location: scunthorpe
1989 Suzuki SJ
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject:
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And you can no longer buy or sell a car with tax. So upon agreeing a deal the seller has to get a tax refund and the buyer has to purchase tax (and insurance obviously) before they drive it away.
Not sure how that will work for people with trade insurance who don't need to declare the vehicle for x days for it to still be insured?
Or how long it will take for it all to be processed and the seller to be taken off the system and the buyer to be put on?
And will you be able to tax it and drive it away if the sellers tax refund hasn't gone through the system yet?
__________________________________ I know enough to be dangerous. |
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mmgemini Mud Obsessed
Joined: 26 Dec 2004 Odometer: 3096 Location: Stockton on Tees
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:01 am Post subject:
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As I've just paid my £230 I got the gist of the info from the DVLA.
Now the question I ask. How will a copper in a foreign land know your car is taxed, they AFAIK do not have access to the DVLA computer
I have had the tax on my car checked twice at the ZA Namibia border crossing. On one occasion the ZA copper wanted to see the stamp on the reg plate. It took Margaret over ten minutes to get him to understand the connection between the reg plate and the tax disc.
__________________________________ mike FOAK
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
I can cause trouble in an empty house !!! |
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jojo Mud Obsessed
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Odometer: 5422
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:40 am Post subject:
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This is what DVLA says: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vehicle-tax-changes
It probably will help to cut down fraud and people driving without insurance to some small extent (and that has to be good) but it looks like it will be a pain in the preverbial for private sellers and buyers. However, there is a 24/7 phone/online system so that you can pay the tax immediately but knowing the DVLA it's anyones' guess what might happen. You will have to arrange insurance first.
I have agreed to buy a car from a mate during October and I will let you know how I get on.
J
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Nightbar Difflock Royalty
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Odometer: 20799 Location: In a state of anticipation...
1999 Land Rover Defender
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject:
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mmgemini wrote: | As I've just paid my £230 I got the gist of the info from the DVLA.
Now the question I ask. How will a copper in a foreign land know your car is taxed, they AFAIK do not have access to the DVLA computer |
I can only speak for Italy where I lived for 6 1/2 years.
There you display your insurance certificate, the bollo - literally the stamp on the windscreen where we would expect to see a tax disc. To obtain the bollo you have to pay the road tax and show the receipt to the bollo man. To buy a car you have to provide all the above to a notary to get the ownership papers signed over to you from the vendor, again in the presence of a legally qualified notary.
This doesn't really help though as it is a legal requirement to carry all the above documentation including ownership papers at all times which makes me wonder how this is going to work in the UK!
__________________________________ The ex-Difflock Ambassador to Naples, Sir Nightbar DCJC DFS and 2 bars.
Plant a tree for the Difflock 3 |
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cynic-al Mud Obsessed
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Odometer: 6062 Location: scunthorpe
1989 Suzuki SJ
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject:
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I'm surprised other countries are interested in the cars being uk taxed as it has no bearing in their country. Some countries you have to pay as a visitor when you enter.
It's to stop people who buy a car with tax and drive without insurance then sell it and buy another as the tax is running out. There was a statistic a few years ago that 1 car in 3 in Bradford is uninsured.
__________________________________ I know enough to be dangerous. |
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w3526602 Difflock Royalty
Joined: 10 Jun 2002 Odometer: 10758 Location: Glynneath, South Wales
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:06 am Post subject:
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I have instructed Mrs NB to display our Italian bollo in our now redundant tax disc holder
Hi,
You didn't say, but displaying a tax disc from a different vehicle (even if you own both vehicles and made a mistake) even if the displayed disc is out of date, is FRAUD .... arrest, finger prints, (rubber gloves?), court, fine, and criminal record. I don't know if displaying a foreign document would have the same result. Let us know how you get on.
I was stopped by what I think was a training exersise for young Plods. Rookie asked if I was carrying my driving licence (he did not ask me to produce it). I replied that I wouldn't be so stupid as to carry it (that makes things easier for them). So he wrote out a HORT (Producer) and the cautioned me (Miranda). SWMBO interupted him, asked why I was being cautioned.
"Your husband has committed an offence by not carrying his licence!"
"No he hasn't! I attend the monthly ASPO (?) meetings where we discuss that very subject. They want to make it law that you carry your licence, but it's not law yet!"
Young Plod's attitude changed, but he recovered quite well.
I did produce my licence. Civilian behind the desk was barely polite. She took my licence into the back room ... I wasn't happy about that ... had a completely different attitude when she brought it back. ???
602
__________________________________ Don't force it, use a bigger hammer, cos if it doesn't fit, the hammer is not big enough. |
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mmgemini Mud Obsessed
Joined: 26 Dec 2004 Odometer: 3096 Location: Stockton on Tees
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:34 am Post subject:
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cynic-al wrote: | I'm surprised other countries are interested in the cars being uk taxed as it has no bearing in their country. Some countries you have to pay as a visitor when you enter.
. |
In some countries third party insurance is provided by that country government. No tax means no insurance.
Part of being allowed to drive in another country in a UK vehicle is that the UK vehicle either is UK taxed or locally taxed.
__________________________________ mike FOAK
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
I can cause trouble in an empty house !!! |
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:50 am Post subject:
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w3526602 wrote: | I have instructed Mrs NB to display our Italian bollo in our now redundant tax disc holder
arrest, finger prints, (rubber gloves?), court, fine, and criminal record. I don't know if displaying a foreign document would have the same result. Let us know how you get on. |
thats ok.
its his missis driving.....
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Nightbar Difflock Royalty
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Odometer: 20799 Location: In a state of anticipation...
1999 Land Rover Defender
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:39 am Post subject:
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** GED ** wrote: | w3526602 wrote: | I have instructed Mrs NB to display our Italian bollo in our now redundant tax disc holder
arrest, finger prints, (rubber gloves?), court, fine, and criminal record. I don't know if displaying a foreign document would have the same result. Let us know how you get on. |
thats ok.
its his missis driving..... |
It's also 4 years old and out of date - it's just a pretty sticker that has no legal significance.
__________________________________ The ex-Difflock Ambassador to Naples, Sir Nightbar DCJC DFS and 2 bars.
Plant a tree for the Difflock 3 |
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( Gray ) Articulating
Joined: 15 Apr 2012 Odometer: 597
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject:
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Have they changed the rules as to when car tax starts and finishes?
If not, as I see it the Chancellor stands to gain each time a second hand car is sold.
Thus:
If I sell my car mid month I can claim back any unused tax. But that's whole months only, so I'm paying for the car to be taxed until the end of the month.
You, who's just bought my car, must tax it before driving away. So you go online and pay for tax, which is backdated to the start of the month. In effect both you and I have taxed the car for the same month.
Multiply that by the number of private sales cars sold each month and that's a nice little earner for the Chancellor.
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Nightbar Difflock Royalty
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Odometer: 20799 Location: In a state of anticipation...
1999 Land Rover Defender
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject:
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I think you have hit the nail on the head there...
__________________________________ The ex-Difflock Ambassador to Naples, Sir Nightbar DCJC DFS and 2 bars.
Plant a tree for the Difflock 3 |
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( Gray ) Articulating
Joined: 15 Apr 2012 Odometer: 597
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:32 pm Post subject:
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Twiss wrote: | My tax runs out at the end of september so think I will buy a 12 month tax disc before I can't get one any more...
I only bought a tax disc holder recently (changed windscreen) and want to get the most out of my £2.50! |
Whenever mine's been up for renewal I've paid mid month and a disc has arrived a few days later, before the start of the actual month it's valid from.
So you can buy your tax after 5th/6th September for the year/6 months starting October. Since tax discs will cease to be issued AFTER 1st October, will they still send out a disc? Or are they only issuing tax discs for tax starting 1st September?
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w3526602 Difflock Royalty
Joined: 10 Jun 2002 Odometer: 10758 Location: Glynneath, South Wales
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:30 am Post subject:
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Part of being allowed to drive in another country in a UK vehicle is that the UK vehicle either is UK taxed or locally taxed.
Hi,
Almost correct.The requirement is that the vehicle must be LEGAL in it's home country, which includes being taxed.
In the 1980s (maybe still) trucks in UK were being reported as being taxed as PLG. The Keepers were getting away with it, by claiming they were being used in UK for SD&P only ... all their commercial use was in Europe. That meant they were being used illegally in Europe ... which wasn't MY problem.
In France, cars do not have VED ... it's collected via the tolls, and there ain't no tolls in Britanny. Why should Monsieur Flick know anthing about UK VED? The Dinan Airport carpark is (was?) full of Channel Island registered cars. Some looked like they had been there a long time.
If Yorky spends an average of four days per week in France, taking him over the 183 days deadline, both he and his truck should become subject to French legislation. ???
602
__________________________________ Don't force it, use a bigger hammer, cos if it doesn't fit, the hammer is not big enough. |
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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:15 am Post subject:
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( Gray ) wrote: | Twiss wrote: | My tax runs out at the end of september so think I will buy a 12 month tax disc before I can't get one any more...
I only bought a tax disc holder recently (changed windscreen) and want to get the most out of my £2.50! |
Whenever mine's been up for renewal I've paid mid month and a disc has arrived a few days later, before the start of the actual month it's valid from.
So you can buy your tax after 5th/6th September for the year/6 months starting October. Since tax discs will cease to be issued AFTER 1st October, will they still send out a disc? Or are they only issuing tax discs for tax starting 1st September? |
I think VED discs will ceased to be issued from 1st October as they do not need to be displayed.
I think the reliance on electronic surveillance is both doomed to fail and invidious
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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jojo Mud Obsessed
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Odometer: 5422
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:35 am Post subject:
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A neighbour has just bought a new car (August) but he hasn't got a tax disc. He says it's taxed - he's not to sort to dodge tax although the car is electric and zero rated but you still need a tax disc under current rules. He says the dealer informs him that DVLA has run out of tax discs and are not bothering to issue one for new cars. I did see a news item saying the DVLA had run out and were printing some more temporary ones.
The police have relied on the DVLA and insurance databases to check tax, insurance and MOT for a number of years especially given the use of ANPR cameras.
J
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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:45 am Post subject:
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The law of "Failure to display" remains in effect until the end of September so your neighbour is risking a fine no matter what the dealer says.
A week ago at a VCC event one of the cars was stopped by the Police for failure to display (it was on the inside of the scuttle) and even though they were really just wanting a look, they might just have booked him if he not actually be displaying it correctly.
The DVLA may be running out of discs but main dealers have their own supply that they print themselves for new cars. If I were your neighbour I'd want something in writing from both dealer and DVLA to avoid a fine.
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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