What, exactly, is the offence?

[w3526602]

Hi,

We have moved into our new home, and park in the front garden which requires us to drive accross the pavement. I keep reading that this is an offence, but cannot find what the offence is.

What I have found is that cars can only be driven on the road, except ...

... when driving onto land, up to 15 metres, but only for the purpose of parking, or,

... to access property that they have the legal right to enter.

I can find no reference to a law that prevents bumping over a kerb. but plenty of advice from local authorities saying it is an offence, but without specifying what offence. They claim it might damage underground services.

There is a street in Tottenham (London) with signs saying that parking on the pavement IS allowed, one side or the other, on alternate days.

In Glynneath, the footpaths are frequently cleaned by one of those little sweeper trucks driving on the pavement.

And in my present street, which is rather narrow so parking on one side only with double yellows on my side, I suspect that the dust-cart and anything bigger than a LWB Transit will need to mount the kerb to get round the corners. I imagine that a fire engine would have to drive onto the footpath. It is a one-way street, so reversing out is not an option.

Can anyone point me to the relevent legislation.

It is an RTA offence for an HGV to park on a grass verge without authority, so I assume that the same applies to kerbs/pavements.

602

[mmgemini]

The offence is CROSSING the pavement in a vehicle unless there is a dropped kerb. Should you park in your garden without a dropped kerb, then anybody can park on the road and legally block your entrance/ exit.

Should you pay to have the kerb dropped. Then Nobody, including yourself can park there.

I had to pay to have my kerb dropped where I live after being threatened by the police for not having a dropped kerb.

Your local council should be able to advise you under their by laws.

[w3526602]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for reply.

<<< The offence is CROSSING the pavement in a vehicle unless there is a dropped kerb. >>>

Is that offence specifically mentioned in the RTA? I have tried all sorts of ways of wording the question on Google, but have come up with nothing other than that parking on pavement is no longer a matter for the police.

Following your reply, I have tried several combinations of ******* County Bylaw, and ********* (town) Bylaw, both with driving on, and parking on, footpath. "NO ANSWER!" was the stern reply ... well, nothing relevent.

I am happy to apply for, and pay (£2000) for a dropped kerb, but the county rules say that permission MAY be refused if my house already has a vehicle access. What does MAY mean? WILL be refused, or MIGHT be refused? My front access is by bumping over the kerb, Rear access is ON FOOT ONLY, although neighbours do not have this restriction on their Land Register. ??? So it's OK for them to park MY car in MY rear garden?

I understand that nobody may block your exit from your drive, but they can block you from driving in.

602

[mmgemini]

Hi 602

I came accoss this in the middle 1980's. I was having an entrance blocked. When the police arrive I was threatened with a NIP for crossing the 12" footpath that didn't really exist. So I asked Stockton on Tees coulcil to drop the kerb for me, which they did.
A year or so later the footpath at the front of the house was going to be re-laid. We all got letters from the council saying that if we had a front entrance with no dropped kerb, then the council would provide a dropped kerk at a discount ? They letter also read that if the kerb wasn't dropped, then anybody driving over the pavement to reach their garage, parking area would be prosecuted for driving over the pavement.
Now.
If somebody here parkes on the pavement causing an obstruction, NOTHING is done about it.

Double standards in my view.

[jojo]

Hi 602,

I understand "MAY" to mean the council could if they chose not approve your request for a dropped kerb if you already have vehicular access to your property but as you don't then they would need another reason not to approve it. They may as a condition of granting approval impose certain conditions relating to drainage and flood prevention. Drainage is easy and regulations about paving gardens allow for that so any competent/legal contractor would see to that. As you are not too near the River Nene (I assume you are now in BL) this should not present a problem.

If you are at BL then youv'e just missed the Billing Land Rover show but you are close to the LRO show at Peterborough in September. Next year, either the first or the last weekend in July have a look at the Hollowell Steam Rally.

J

[w3526602]

Hi JoJo,

Yeah, now in BL.

Other houses in the road have dropped kerbs. I live at No.22. Nos.20 and 24 have dropped kerbs, Nos 24 and 28 don't. No.28 has a garage at rear ... she was visited by a bloke from the council following a neighbourly complaint about a visitor's car parked in her front garden.

Application for permission to drop kerb is going in today. I assume that I have the right to appeal if it is refused?

602

[w3526602]

Oops,

Dyslexic finger. No.26 has dropped kerb (three cars wide) and a garage. No.24 doesn't.

602

[Twiss]

As far as I am aware, the offense that you would be committing is "driving elsewhere than a road"

Same as what you get for driving along a public right of way in a vehicle when it's a footpath, bridleway or RUPP.

I got done for it once when me and a friend got lost in the snow... ended up going to court and having to pay £20

[mmgemini]

[quote="Twiss"]As far as I am aware, the offense that you would be committing is "driving elsewhere than a road"
]

So please explain to me and others the difference to driving over a pavement to get into a property and driving along a pavement to park on the pavement.
In both cases the vehicle will be on the pavement.

[Twiss]

Well on the gov.uk website it says:

[Twiss]

There is this from the Highways act... bit outdated though!

This is from the 1835 version, but it was updated in 1888 to include tricycled and velocipedes (whatever that is!)
I reckon this is the law that the council are referring to... but should blatantly be superseded by the RTA.

You know what councils are like though, they love antiquated laws that were rendered irrelevant decades ago.

Personally I would go to court and argue it. I reckon you could get away with it!

[w3526602]

Hi,

I am assuming that I am entitled to drive on a footpath to gain lawful access to my property.

My specific query is ... what is the offence of driving over the footpath when the kerb has not been dropped?

It is not "driving other than on the road", as the exception above applies, unless the lack of a dropped kerb means access is not lawfull.

602

[absquatulation]

I don't know, but I would assume that there is no offence, but........ It doesn't stop someone from blocking the entrance and you either in or out.

[mmgemini]

Twiss.
My access is in a 12foot wide back lane.
There isn't really a footpath that you can walk along as it's less than 12" wide from my gates. The kerb wasn't dropped but I was threatend with prosecution by the police when trying to access my property.

[Twiss]

[Xpajun]

This from Stevenage but the law is national - hope it helps

Replace any phone numbers and council references with the details of your council

[Twiss]

FYI here is section 184 from the highways act... my favourite bit is at the bottom

For £20 I'd just drive over the kerb!

[RichardD]

Re dropped kerbs
The roadway and pavement should already be constructed to highway standards so the cost of installing a dropped kerb should be reasonable, ie in the low £00s. The cost for me to do the crossover from my field track to the verge of the road (not the road itself which is further away) 5m x 2m is ~£7,500 plus vat. Clearly it will be a while before I can afford that!

[Twiss]

Hire a jackhammer, dig up the kerb while nobody is looking

And richard... £3k of that £7,500 will probably cover the safety briefing
£500 will cover the wages of the 2 guys actually doing the work, and the other £3k will be spent on some more staff who are paid to look like they are doing some work.

That seems to be how my local council works...

[RichardD]

Twiss
My local authority does not get its hands dirty. The work can only be done by private contractors and £7500 is the cheapest I can get.

[** GED **]

i got a shovel.......

[Twiss]

Get out there GED you could have £7500 of Richard's money in your pocket

[** GED **]

yeah, ill just delay my trip to the canaries and rush up there

[Twiss]

You could get a lot of canaries for £7500

[w3526602]

but........ It doesn't stop someone from blocking the entrance and you either in or out.

Hi,

No, but the double yellow outside my house should discourage them.

The footpath has already been dug up along the length of the road, presumably to lay cables or pipes, so at some time, it is going to have to be relaid at some time, at public expense, unless I pay for it first.

IF I do any damage to the surface or kerb, I will pay for it .... at the same time as I pay for a dropped kerb and stronger footpath.

Assuming my car weighs 1000kg, thats 250kg on each tyre. Would they prosecute me if I push a laden wheel barrow across the pavement? It shouldn't be difficult if the handles were extended, and I fitted an 8-ply tyre. I wonder if I could carry 75kg in each hand? Add that to my 100kg SPAM, and there's your quarter ton, And if I borrowed SWMBO's 6" stilleto heels .......

602 PS, I have carried two full Jerry cans in each hand, and I doubt that that was anything special.

[jojo]