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A new insurance shocker

 
 
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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: A new insurance shocker Reply with quote

So my Landrover's insurance falls due at the end of this month and I start looking for quotes. "Cmpare the soft toy" comes back with bare bones policies at £237 from people like AXA which with legal protection and protected NCD comes up to £285 which I think is a brilliant deal considering last year's premium was £550.

I get my renewal email and it's ... £548 even though I did I blind quote last week and got £330. With some playing around with details and still being honest it drops to £406

I call and we go through it line by line and we find the problem; 3 years ago (less a month or 2) I had someone crash into me causing £150 damage to their car and none to mine (both our excesses were £500). The twit reported it to his insurer so officially I have a non fault claim against me even though no claim was made nor any damage caused to my vehicle AND it was not my fault in any case. This 'claim' means I get a 37.6% loading on my policy or £115!

I know understand why people lie on their proposal forms. To say I am livid is an understatement - I will end up paying £300+ over 3 years for a non existent claim!

GRRRRRRRRRRR

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Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him.
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(pete)
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Odometer: 5805
Location: aldershot



PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a ****** I had the same thing with a windscreen claim on a fully comp policy not supposed to affected by windscreen claims but they were saying it was a self inflicted claim and that it would affect the price

Anyway got my insurance through compare the toy and it's cheaper than before result oh and not affected by the glass claim

I would argue yours as if no one paid out then or there was no investigation into it then surely the can.penalise you for.something that's not your fault

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Nightbar
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Odometer: 20613
Location: In a state of anticipation...


1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a pity that you can't raise a small claims court claim against them for loss of earnings as a result of their action...

...and what happened in the intervening 2 years where the insurance company hasn't taken account of this?

(though they might try and back charge you!)

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The ex-Difflock Ambassador to Naples, Sir Nightbar DCJC DFS and 2 bars.

Plant a tree for the Difflock 3
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Difflock Royalty


Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Odometer: 40001
Location: Northern Ireland's Gold Coast


2009 Land Rover 110 CSW

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a **** take
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Bert the Defender 110 XS - because it's Cool (work it out yourself!)
Lolita the Lightweight
???? the V8 90 CSW
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w3526602
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10678
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Did you report this incident to your insurers at the time? Failure to do so can invalidate your "own damage" insurance for later claims (Insurers find it very difficult to refuse Third Party claims, provided you have a licence to cover the vehicle you were driving .. including the trailer).

You should retain your NCD, but premiums will be loaded for 5 years. I am surprised that the clerk acknowledged the loading ... most deny it.
I raised this with Honest John (Telegraph) .. although he might already have been aware ... IF you are fault free, why should you be penalised by the policy of your insurer (ALL insurers?). So if you premium is increased due to somebody else's fault, they, or there insurers should compensate you. Honest John later gave that advice in his weekly column. Sue the other driver for the amount your premium was loaded, multiplied by five years.

I have never noticed a mention of this loading, in the Policy Schedule, which is where they lay down the terms of your contract.

I cannot remember if you are required to inform your insurers of any ACCIDENTS, or just any CLAIMS, involving you or a car you own. But if you do not keep to their terrms, they can refuse to honour their side of the contract, if the law allows them to.

But ... if you make a claim against your other driver TODAY ... when does the 5 year clock start ticking? Today? Or two years ago?

I would not be without Legal Assistance Insurance. I would not want to pay for my barrister when the other party get theirs for free.

602

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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

602
You raise a couple of interesting points:

Insurance is based on "full disclosure" which in theory means that even if they do not ask the question or, on their website, there is not an exact option you are responsible for giving them the full picture. You should also tell them of every change, no matter how small, in case it changes the loading on the policy This is a possible get out on pretty much every insurance policy if they try.

Part of 'full disclosure' includes telling them of any "accidents, claims and convictions" but what constitutes an accident? I reversed into a road sign a while back and scraped the powder coating off it. Is that a notifiable accident? I burst a tyre and bent a wheel on my trailer clipping a steel bound kerb, is THAT an accident?

I understand that someone making a spurious claim against me did constitute an insurable risk at the time but within days it became clear it was not. This was a Legal Protection issue (which is a separate policy) and my contention is that should not be considered a motor policy incident as it cost them (the insurers) no more than a call from me to make an enquiry.

Loading:
Loading is the term they use for additional risks represented by age, experience, location, mileage etc over and above the basic policy for teh car. For example I discovered many years ago that having an IAM qualification increased my premium for most insurers as the statistics show that, on average, drivers with advanced driving qualifications are MORE likely to make a claim. I now have IAM, RoSPA, DIA, and 'Blue light' driving qualifications so what kind of risk would I pose to them if I told them (oh, of course, I have ... 'full disclosure' and all that Rolling Eyes )

Insurance is a business, nothing more, and they are in it for profit so when they evaluate you as a risk it is NOT on the basis of whether you are a good driver but how much of a risk there is of you making a claim against the policy and for how much. I know of few female drivers who have what I would describe as 'advanced' driving skills or even the potential/willingness to attain such skills yet they are perceived as being better drivers? Every independent study into the subject shows women as being more risk averse and for this reason alone they are a better risk for Insurers. What pisses me off is that Insurers claim some kind of moral high ground because it is legal requirement for us to buy their products and they make it almost impossible for us to play on a level field - deliberately I suspect.

Liability period
Legally, as I'm discovering by being pestered by cold calls from parasites, you can only make a claim against a 3rd party up to 3 years from the incident date. I assume this explains why insurers ask for 3 years accident/claim history while some ask for 5 years so they can skin you for more money. You have to tell them about motoring convictions for 5 years because that is the limit under, I believe, the rehabilitation of offenders Act.

My 9 points never really loaded my premium by much as the underwriters accepted my view of the conviction ("Aye, I did it but a copper seriously goaded me into it") but what makes the most difference is whether my 110 is considered a van or a 5 door estate car!

Because of my involvement with Lifesavers Scotland I am getting a very detailed quote from a specialist Broker who deal with private ambulances and similar volunteer/charity emergency vehicle insurance and I will be very interested to hear what they have to say. It took over an hour on the phone to go through the proposal form ....

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Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him.
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cynic-al
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 6026
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been occasions where we have suffered minor bumps and just sorted it with the other driver, this is a no no as far as the insurer is concerned as you should tell them even if you don't claim, they can't take your no claims but they can put that you were involved in an accident which increases your risk (although you could argue it reduces your risk) therefore the price goes up.

What I would recommend is buying the protected no claims, we had someone run into us in a petrol station, at first they wanted to just pay to repair it but when the guys wife wouldn't let me talk to him I decided to call my insurance company. When my renewal came I did an honest quote, one without the accident and one with the accident but no no claims protection. Without the accident and with the accident and no claims protection came out the same, the with accident and no no claims protection was a higher price.

Interestingly twice we have got letters from the police for being reported for 'hit and runs' (?!?!). Both times the person parked next to us returned to their car, saw damage on it and phoned the police claiming it must be my car that did it as I'm parked next to them now. The first time I took a day of work unpaid and drove a 100 mile round trip for the police officer investigating to inspect my vehicle for damage, who upon finding none ruled that I was not guilty. The second time I told them to come and inspect the car at my house or come and arrest me... and inspect the car whilst they were here. The matter went no further.

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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have protected no claims discount which is why I described the increase as 'loading'. I still have 20+ years NCD (due to the protection) yet my premium still went up by 37% because of a non-existent claim.

My mother was accused of a 'hit and run' after a 'witness' claimed he'd seen her clip another car in a car park. Despite there being no damage to either car (brand new BMWs) and the 'witnesses' failing to agree on make, model or colour of the car (Mum's is very light blue yet one described it as black) she was booked for "failing to report" given 5 points and a £350 fine. The person who's car it was claimed was hit did not make any statement, did not make an insurance claim ..... Mum did not fight it as it was the same time as her father was dying (age 99) and she couldn't cope.

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Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him.
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w3526602
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10678
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Repeat the question. Does the Insurance Policy/Schedule mention that premiums will be loaded, if you OR your car are involved in an accident, even if you are totally blameless?

If an insurer acceps your premium, issues a policy, and then later refuses a claim because you had failed to notify them of a previous incident, can you complain on the grounds that they already knew about it (or should have known). I bet they would love it if every customer asked for a print-out of everything they had on file about them.

Many years ago, my sister's boy friend was told by a colleague, that his car had been hit by another car, in the office car park. The registration had been noted. The police were not interested, as the accident was on private ground. And then , suddenly, they WERE interested. That car had been used in a bank robbery. If that happened today, would it be fair that the owner ofthe innocent car should be loaded? Lose NCD, yes , because he had made a claim.

Can the insurers justify penalising an innocent car owner? Unfair trading practices, or whatever.

If you, as a pedestrian, are struck by a car ... do you have to inform your motor insurer. You were involved in an accident, you made a claim.

I have read that there will be NO penalty for a no-blame victim, if his car is fitted with a dash-camera. Can anyone confirm?

But I think the biggest deterent will be if all the no-blame victims claimed the penalty loading from the Perps insurers.

I had to insist that my insurers took a note of my brain surgery

602

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Don't force it, use a bigger hammer, cos if it doesn't fit, the hammer is not big enough.
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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insurance is priced on risk not by contract so the policy will not refer to loading, that happens before you take the policy out.

There was something in the news last year about the government outlawing the practice of loading premiums due to non fault claims but nothing came of it afaik.

I get a 10% discount for having a permanently fitted dashcam as opposed to using my phone.

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Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him.
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