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TV Licenses
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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynic-al wrote:
I always thought live in this argument meant at scheduled time of airing rather than when the image entered the camera lens. As you know iplayer etc won't let you watch it until sometime after the program has finished.


Probably pretty accurate. That would cover anything transmitted rather than just 'live' TV.

BUT unless that term is defined in the terms with the BBC then it's not a definition which could be used though. This forums been over this point a few times with regards to towing / a-frames / recovery... Peoples opinions of definitions are often far from accurate when it comes to the black and white of law (and how good a solicitor is involved).

Obviously this is wikipedia so take with a pinch of salt, but a streaming media over the internet can be defined as live broadcast

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_broadcast

It's being streamed from a sever in the tinterwebs and played on a device in real time, ergo, live.

With the BBC showing a repeat at a scheduled time, streams from their servers over (insert carrier) medium to device. Live.

Even catch up TV, it's being kept on the BBC server, sent over internet to device and watched again, in real time. Live.

Two out of the three above are not considered 'live' by the BBC, whilst one is. What's the difference? This is very much a case of keeping your cake and eating it.

yes I know it's all semantics.
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dxmedia wrote:


yes I know it's all semantics.


I'm not antisemantic some of my best friends are words Laughing

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

. wrote:
The programme is broadcast when the signal leaves the transmitter and travels at roughly the speed of light to the receiving device.


Feel free to ignore it again Rolling Eyes Laughing

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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

. wrote:
. wrote:
The programme is broadcast when the signal leaves the transmitter and travels at roughly the speed of light to the receiving device.


Feel free to ignore it again Rolling Eyes Laughing


So please provide citation for this?

Also please define transmitter with citation?

That's the point I'm trying to make.

The NIC card in the back of my server transmits IP, then that travels over tinterwebs to a receiving NIC card. If I watch 'catch up' TV the NIC card on the BBC's server transmits IP to my computer which receives it.

Now, if I watch 'live' TV on my computer, the NIC card on the BBC's server transmits IP and the NIC card on my computer receives it.

If I watch 'live' TV using a TV and an ariel, the NIC card on the BBC's server sends IP to a DAC which in turn transmits that signal over the broadcasting network of transmitters across the UK, which is then received by the ariel on the roof, goes through an ADC and the digital signal goes into the TV.

So, what's the difference?


###again... being devils advocate here.
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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardD wrote:
dxmedia wrote:


yes I know it's all semantics.


I'm not antisemantic some of my best friends are words Laughing


It's OK, I currently work for Symantec Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point I was making was how I define "broadcast". "Live" has no relevance.

The law states that you require a licence if you watch or record TV as it's being broadcast.

The were questions regarding the defination of "broadcast" - I would define it as when the signal leaves the transmitter and travels at roughly the speed of light to the receiving device.

It's all in my previous posts.

For ease of understanding think of the transmitter as the big shiney aerial on top of the mountain.

If the programme content happens to reach your receiving device, no matter what that is, at the same time as the squiggly lines leave the big shiney aerial then you need a licence.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a case in law recently where the defendant attempted to justify a lack of licence by claiming that a streamed event wasn't live using some of the comments above. He lost.

I can't be bothered to look it up but the judges ruling was clear as to what live was and wasn't on the interweb.

Whilst the BBC was happy that they won, but also it was a judgement against them as it defined in law that catch up wasn't covered by the licence (therefore a plank of their argument to make licenseable all content on the iplayer).

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.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, that is not really what this thread is about. Rest assured the Beeb and their licence fee collection agents know more about the law than we do and if they say someone with a TV or whatever requires a licence then they, in law, need a licence.

My question is how should those who break the law regarding TV licensing be dealt with?

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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A red letter, followed by another red letter, a debt collector, then finally a CCJ?

What happens with other companies when you don't pay a bill?
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cynic-al
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That depends if it's a tax or a bill?

A friend of mine worked in IT for one of these 'train the unemployable' companies that get paid by the government to try get people into work and put them in training so statistically they're not unemployed. He was sat fixing the computers at the back of a class whilst they were being taught about bailiffs etc. Basically they were told pay all taxes first, if you don't pay them you get locked up (eventually), nothing else really matters, if the bailiff comes knocking if you live on your own they can take your sofa but not your arm chair, your double bed but not your single etc etc. They can't take anything that doesn't belong to you etc etc.

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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's a utility (the consumption of a service or a good) which is being provided, so that would suggest a bill?
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Xpajun
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt get the bailiff in to remove your telly plus anything else they could find to make up the amount you owe plus the extortionate fees the bailiffs charge
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jojo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

. wrote:


My question is how should those who break the law regarding TV licensing be dealt with?



Force them to watch for six months never ending repeats of Coronation Street or similar drivel that currently occupies much broadcast time. It may not make them buy a licence but they would never watch telly again!

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dxmedia
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's the 'like' button Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ wot he said ^^^
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

As I understand it, a lot of my TV licence fee went towards them going digital. Plus a lot of disruption while they were working towards it.

We are not much better off ...most channels are un-viewable due to the picture breaking up. We can't watch Top Gear repeats on Dave,but we can watch lots of You've been Framed. The Olympic Ceremony broke up half way through.

Also, as we live in Wales, we have to read the small print in the program guides, and even then programs are liable to change without notice if there is something that the local Director would rather watch ...like snooker or rugger.

Even if the BBC showed nothing but repeats, we would still have to pay for a licence.

On the other hand, if TV didn't exist, we would have the choice of getting drunk or making babies .... like our grandparents did.

602

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi 602,

I agree with most of what you say especially the bits about getting drunk (very appealing and quite possible) and making babies. However, the latter, with age becomes less likely for a variety of reasons but the BBC in its' infinite wisdom offers a free TV licence to people above a certain age. I wonder if this is some form of compensation for the presumed inability to make babies.

I know what I prefer and would be willing to trade my free TV licence!!!

J
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the legal aspect of the tv licence is interesting however..




it works like this i have read (so this may be hearsay and/or wrong i have no claims to the validity of what i am about to say)..

the TV guy comes to the door and says "you have been watching TV without a licence"

you refuse to let him in (as you are legally allowed to do as he does not have police and they do not have a warrant of search)

he then goes away. he cannot look through your windows to see if you have a television, as the evidence he would be presenting against you would be illegally gained and he would be tresspassing..

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except there's no trespass law up here........just the Land Reform (Scotland) act 2003.

Did someone say semantics?

Tv licence...about 40p per day in reality. I find that remarkably good value for money considering, maybe incorrectly, that it funds the entire BbC which I rely on for far more than a couple of TV channels.....radio, internet news etc etc

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See for me thats seems like a rip off, theres never anything good on TV that's really worth watching... only an hour on sunday a dozen times a year... Wink

The only thing I would stream is formula 1, but I would stream Sky Sports F1 HD from a different country anyway, hypothetically that is Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD wrote:
Except there's no trespass law up here........just the Land Reform (Scotland) act 2003.

Did someone say semantics?


There are laws covering privacy as well as provision for no right to roam within the curtilage of someone's property.

DD wrote:
Tv licence...about 40p per day in reality. I find that remarkably good value for money considering, maybe incorrectly, that it funds the entire BBC which I rely on for far more than a couple of TV channels.....radio, internet news etc etc


Lets see, I pay £65 per month for Sky TV inc phone, 'broadband' and access to TV on up to 4 devices. So, £780 per year v £145.50 for BBC TV & radio which, as DD says, is pretty good vfm.

Considering a tank of fuel for the car costs £100, a nice meal out for 4 adults £70 .... opportunity cost and all that. Whilst I realise there is a principle at stake here I think the TV licence is one of the less invidious taxes out there, at least you know exactly where the money is going (although not what it's being spent on, I admit)

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TV licencing people are a load of bullies. They threaten people with court who DO NOT have a TV.

We had TEN months hassle with those people.
NO TV
Still they insisted even to the point that I was told by them I was watching a TV set.
After all the threats GOOD luck to those who don't pay and get away with it.

You need to see the threatening letters they send out.

Be a good idea if the BBC was closed down with their PC ideas

Just to add.They licencing people were informed that as we were going to be away and all equipment was to be removed we wouldn't be renewing out licence.

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmgemini wrote:
The TV licencing people are a load of bullies. They threaten people with court who DO NOT have a TV.

We had TEN months hassle with those people.
NO TV
Still they insisted even to the point that I was told by them I was watching a TV set.
After all the threats GOOD luck to those who don't pay and get away with it.

You need to see the threatening letters they send out.

Be a good idea if the BBC was closed down with their PC ideas

Just to add.They licencing people were informed that as we were going to be away and all equipment was to be removed we wouldn't be renewing out licence.


Harassment... no other word for it - I've started getting the letters again now - I don't even open them they go straight in the shredder Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

If there were anything on the TV that I wanted to watch then I would get a licence - there isn't so I haven't got one.

Yes I do have a TV which I use for some gaming or DVD viewing - would like to get a new one but shudder at the amount of harassment that would entail now

I would seem that the licensing authority can't get their little heads around the fact that not everyone needs to watch endless repeats hour after hour.

I await the knock on the door wit great anticipation - could be the same guy as last time, but I don't think he'll be wanting to knock again Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many, many years ago when younger. We had no TV. I worked night shift for the Ford main dealer.
I would get up about 2.30pm and generally, as I do now, work on a car outside.

Up out drive walks this man, trilby hat and overcoat, just as Margaret went inside to make coffee.
Mr H ? he asked me
Yes I said
You don't have a television licence says he.
No I replied I don't need one as I don't have a television.
Thank you he said, raising his trilby and walking away.

Margert came out with coffee. Who was that she asked.
TV licence man.

Boy oh boy was I deflated that I didn't get an argument.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xpajun. I too have a tv.

I also do not require a license.

I also was fed up of the hassles from capita. The company administering the tv licence.

So I put a stop to it.

I removed their implied right of access.

This prevents them from entering my garden, to knock on my door.

If they do its common law trespass and I have set the fine on my property at two and a half grand.

So, they started with the letters.

And I served them with a cease and desist notice telling them that one more letter would constitute harrasment under the malicious communications act.

This confused them.

So they now send me one letter every two years asking if I now need a licence.

That is all they are legally allowed to do.

Hope this helps mate.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HIM wrote:
Xpajun. I too have a tv.

I also do not require a license.

I also was fed up of the hassles from capita. The company administering the tv licence.

So I put a stop to it.

I removed their implied right of access.

This prevents them from entering my garden, to knock on my door.

If they do its common law trespass and I have set the fine on my property at two and a half grand.

So, they started with the letters.

And I served them with a cease and desist notice telling them that one more letter would constitute harrasment under the malicious communications act.

This confused them.

So they now send me one letter every two years asking if I now need a licence.

That is all they are legally allowed to do.

Hope this helps mate.



Thanks for that - eventually got the new telly I am now awaiting further letters from them with great anticipation Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and just to add, yes capita (licensing) do know the law.

they just choose to ignore it, lie, coerce and threaten to make you buy a licence.

whether you need one or not.


also the law states live or nearly live broadcasts. this is to remove the pause loophole.

this was where someone would press pause on the sky remote, then turn on the tv. go make a cuppa, come back and unpause.

go to you tube and google tv licencing for a bit of an eye opener.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HIM wrote:


go to you tube and google tv licencing for a bit of an eye opener.


Please be very careful about what you see and hear on YouTube. This is not the repository of all knowledge, it is full of opinions, half truths, down right lies, and other utter rubbish.

If you want to see some rubbish look for Freemen of the land.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
whilst withdrawing the right of access to your property does stop TV Licensing (Capita) from visiting your house, it does not mean you have legally opted out of purchasing a TV License. You are still breaking the law if you watch television broadcasts and have not purchased a license, and you are still liable to be fined and/or prosecuted if caught.

It should also be noted that withdrawing the right of access to your property does not mean that TV Licensing cannot investigate you in other ways. TV Licensing officers reserve the right to use detection equipment, magistrate appointed search warrants and other investigative techniques that do not rely on contacting the property occupant. This means following the advice (above) is certainly no guarantee that you will not be prosecuted and/or fined for not owning a TV license when you should.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

absquatulation wrote:


Please be very careful about what you see and hear on YouTube. This is not the repository of all knowledge, it is full of opinions, half truths, down right lies, and other utter rubbish.



Isn't that the truth

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