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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3239



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: So if... Reply with quote

The tax disc is scrapped...



what is to stop anyone from cloning a numberplate of a similar car and colour and using it on their one?
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dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what's to stop anyone doing that now?

There's this strange modern invention called a computator.

Scanner, photo shop, stolen number plate, petrol stations etc...

My F****ing huge issues are with vehicles which don't quite fit.

Every year for the past, oh I can't be ***** thinking, I have to go to the post office with a pile of paperwork and explain why I've not got an MOT certificate, and can they give me free of charge / nominal charge etc... a tax disk, and yes, for 12 months please, not 6.

The online / telephone system borkes at this every time. Is the 'new' paperless tax disk going to be done at the post office? Or is this a way of removing the DVLA's reliance on the post office so that it can be sold off.
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3239



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dxmedia wrote:
And what's to stop anyone doing that now?


In England and Wales the first thing the police do on a stop is check on the tax disc to see if the registration matches...

dxmedia wrote:


There's this strange modern invention called a computator.

Scanner, photo shop, stolen number plate, petrol stations etc...

My F****ing huge issues are with vehicles which don't quite fit.

Every year for the past, oh I can't be ***** thinking, I have to go to the post office with a pile of paperwork and explain why I've not got an MOT certificate, and can they give me free of charge / nominal charge etc... a tax disk, and yes, for 12 months please, not 6.

The online / telephone system borkes at this every time. Is the 'new' paperless tax disk going to be done at the post office? Or is this a way of removing the DVLA's reliance on the post office so that it can be sold off.


Apparently, in E&W at least, you'll still be able to pay in the PO - although I haven't done that for a number of years as I keep forgetting where I filed the MOT and insurance, so I tend to use the on line facility - however I must point out that I don't have a vehicle old enough to not have to pay tax, or to not have a MOT of course
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dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a number of reasons not to bother with an MOT, although the point I was making is that the computer version of speaking to someone is borked in that you NEED an MOT and Insurance which are both computerised now. If you don't have an MOT computer says no.

The old guy at the post office knows this, knows the law and knows how to press buttons on the console to make the computer say 'yes', hand over paperwork, laugh at how technology is making things harder, and tax disk later.

What's wrong with tax disks. Why do they want to get rid of them.

What's the benefit?

These are the questions you should be asking.
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.
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Odometer: 40002
Location: Northern Ireland's Gold Coast


2009 Land Rover 110 CSW

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thnk it's a good idea. Works OK for TV licences so why not car tax?
__________________________________
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Lolita the Lightweight
???? the V8 90 CSW
Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - yes that's right, I have a Zook!
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gadgetboy
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Odometer: 1947
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland



PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder are they also going to drop the MOT disc here?
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dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

. wrote:
I thnk it's a good idea. Works OK for TV licences so why not car tax?



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

By work, you mean charge household in the country no matter what, and you have to prove that you don't have a TV, and the lies about the detector vans?

I don't think you can use 'TV license' and 'work' in the same sentence Wink
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3239



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I semi agree with you on the need for a MOT for a lot of us the MOT is superficial because we choose to keep our vehicles in a well maintained condition that very often exceeds MOT standard, but there are those that the MOT is the only service their vehicle gets every year and they are the people that need it.


Nothing wrong with tax discs as such, but they are now no longer necessary due to the computer, it allows monthly direct debit without having to send out a new tax disc every month, and , lets face it, printing high security discs can not be cheap - so there'd be lots more money available to spend on the roads...

As if Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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jojo
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Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Odometer: 5277




PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xpajun wrote:
lets face it, printing high security discs can not be cheap - so there'd be lots more money available to spend on the roads...

As if Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes



... or on subsidies for the arts or hand-outs for illegal immigrants ...


J
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Difflock Royalty


Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Odometer: 40002
Location: Northern Ireland's Gold Coast


2009 Land Rover 110 CSW

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gadgetboy wrote:
I wonder are they also going to drop the MOT disc here?


It's all on computer too so I don't see why not.

__________________________________
Bert the Defender 110 XS - because it's Cool (work it out yourself!)
Lolita the Lightweight
???? the V8 90 CSW
Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - yes that's right, I have a Zook!
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DD
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Odometer: 9759
Location: Aberdeenshire


1986 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"What's the benefit? "

Honestly? I think that question is a symptom of 'grumpy old man'.

The benefits are already mentioned above

To you: No need to troop to post office. Pay online by installments, potentially more money spent elsewhere in the 'system' due to cost saving, less farting about when you change plates etc

To HMRC: pure cost saving, less admin, less personnel (computer says no).

Of course there are always people who will find the system more problematic, people who the new system simply does not cater for, people who just like to moan, people like you Smile What do you want done about it? An entire re-write of policy and procedure for the 0.1% of the population?

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90 v8 for fun
110 XS CSW daily drive
'I came, I saw, I locked the diff'
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.
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Odometer: 40002
Location: Northern Ireland's Gold Coast


2009 Land Rover 110 CSW

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. The only downside is some public servants will loss their jobs, but that's a different discussion altogether.
__________________________________
Bert the Defender 110 XS - because it's Cool (work it out yourself!)
Lolita the Lightweight
???? the V8 90 CSW
Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - yes that's right, I have a Zook!
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Wilbert Robinson
Articulating


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Odometer: 685




PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

. wrote:
gadgetboy wrote:
I wonder are they also going to drop the MOT disc here?


It's all on computer too so I don't see why not.



Unlikely until the PSNI can afford to equip their vehicles with ANPR.

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Foreplay does not require a four wheel drive

Get your mind out of the gutter................it's blocking my view
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gadgetboy
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Odometer: 1947
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland



PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The PSNI have a lot more ANPR than they admit but that's a somewhat moot fact when they don't routinely check for untaxed/unMOTed vehicles. The PSNI only check tax/MOT if you get pulled for some other offence.

No tax/MOT is almost completely the remit of the DVA here in Nortern Ireland which is why you should make extra sure they acknowledge the SORN, sale or disposal of a vehicle. Otherwise the computer will fine you and there's very little you can do about it if you don't have the relevant paperwork AND proof of delivery.

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Difflock Royalty


Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Odometer: 40002
Location: Northern Ireland's Gold Coast


2009 Land Rover 110 CSW

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wilbert Robinson wrote:



Unlikely until the PSNI can afford to equip their vehicles with ANPR.


There's plenty of ANPR already used by DVA for tax dodgers. Also, most PSNI cars are fitted with computers linked to the DVA database and MID - that's how they got me for no MOT!

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Bert the Defender 110 XS - because it's Cool (work it out yourself!)
Lolita the Lightweight
???? the V8 90 CSW
Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - yes that's right, I have a Zook!
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dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xpajun wrote:
I semi agree with you on the need for a MOT for a lot of us the MOT is superficial because we choose to keep our vehicles in a well maintained condition that very often exceeds MOT standard, but there are those that the MOT is the only service their vehicle gets every year and they are the people that need it.



You miss my point. Vehicles which don't have MOT's.

Tractors, recovery trucks, cranes, special vehicles, electric delivery vehicles, an articulated vehicle which isn't a bus or lorry, older than 1960, there's quite a list.

These are all a royal PITA to tax because there's no MOT certificate, since they don't need one. Every year, go down to the post office, then spend 30 minutes waiting whilst they fudge the computer.

Get rid of the person you can speak to a the post office (who knows what they are doing) and replace with a numpty in a call centre in Swansea (who doesn't know what they are doing) and it's a nightmare.

I've tried getting tax online, I've tried getting tax over the phone, I've tried getting tax at a post office. Only one of those works. I'm also not alone here.
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dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD wrote:
"What's the benefit? "

Honestly? I think that question is a symptom of 'grumpy old man'.

The benefits are already mentioned above

To you: No need to troop to post office. Pay online by installments, potentially more money spent elsewhere in the 'system' due to cost saving, less farting about when you change plates etc

To HMRC: pure cost saving, less admin, less personnel (computer says no).

Of course there are always people who will find the system more problematic, people who the new system simply does not cater for, people who just like to moan, people like you Smile What do you want done about it? An entire re-write of policy and procedure for the 0.1% of the population?


Na, the benefit is that the government can sell of the post offices. Replace everything they do with online, don't give to figs about those people who can't / don't want to get online and make some quick cash.

On a side note, anyone looked at the royal mail pricing over the past few weeks? It's now cheaper to use couriers. Have fun with that over Christmas.
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cynic-al
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Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 6033
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe your still going to be able to pay at the post office or online so you can still present certificates and exemptions to a person. Monthly direct debit costs 5% extra.

What I'm not sure of is how you know how much tax a car has when you buy it as the other person could surely cancel as soon as you drive away?

I haven't had an officer check for a physical disk for years. They either wait for their box in the car to alarm for no mot, insurance or tax or radio for a vehicle check.

There are people around here who live outside of the rules of our society who already clone number plates. If you see them doing something dodgy and phone the police with a numberplate of their van it always comes back as a car. It means they can drive around without any risk of a camera flagging them... Assuming the owner still taxes their car. Lol

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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dxmedia wrote:
You miss my point. Vehicles which don't have MOT's.

I've tried getting tax online, I've tried getting tax over the phone, I've tried getting tax at a post office. Only one of those works. I'm also not alone here.


I think you are doing something wrong. I own or am responsible for 5 vehicles none of which need an MOT either being less than 3 years old, agricultural or historic vehicles and I've not had a problem.

Why would it suddenly become more difficult when EVERY new car can get VED online without an MOT.

I also know over 30 people like me and I've not heard a single one of them
complain about problems like yours.

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dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardD wrote:
dxmedia wrote:
You miss my point. Vehicles which don't have MOT's.

I've tried getting tax online, I've tried getting tax over the phone, I've tried getting tax at a post office. Only one of those works. I'm also not alone here.


I think you are doing something wrong. I own or am responsible for 5 vehicles none of which need an MOT either being less than 3 years old, agricultural or historic vehicles and I've not had a problem.

Why would it suddenly become more difficult when EVERY new car can get VED online without an MOT.

I also know over 30 people like me and I've not heard a single one of them
complain about problems like yours.


Quite possibly, but this is every year with a number of different vehicles.
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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dxmedia wrote:
RichardD wrote:
dxmedia wrote:
You miss my point. Vehicles which don't have MOT's.

I've tried getting tax online, I've tried getting tax over the phone, I've tried getting tax at a post office. Only one of those works. I'm also not alone here.


I think you are doing something wrong. I own or am responsible for 5 vehicles none of which need an MOT either being less than 3 years old, agricultural or historic vehicles and I've not had a problem.

Why would it suddenly become more difficult when EVERY new car can get VED online without an MOT.

I also know over 30 people like me and I've not heard a single one of them
complain about problems like yours.


Quite possibly, but this is every year with a number of different vehicles.


Basic error checking procedures cause one to look for the common denominator!

When I first had to tax the Alldays I went to the Post OFfice and the girl behind the counter was very confused and asked if I want 6 or 12 months free VED!

I expected problems the first renewal post MOT but it worked like a charm as did the new VED for the 110 ....

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dxmedia
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Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardD wrote:
dxmedia wrote:
RichardD wrote:
dxmedia wrote:
You miss my point. Vehicles which don't have MOT's.

I've tried getting tax online, I've tried getting tax over the phone, I've tried getting tax at a post office. Only one of those works. I'm also not alone here.


I think you are doing something wrong. I own or am responsible for 5 vehicles none of which need an MOT either being less than 3 years old, agricultural or historic vehicles and I've not had a problem.

Why would it suddenly become more difficult when EVERY new car can get VED online without an MOT.

I also know over 30 people like me and I've not heard a single one of them
complain about problems like yours.


Quite possibly, but this is every year with a number of different vehicles.


Basic error checking procedures cause one to look for the common denominator!

When I first had to tax the Alldays I went to the Post OFfice and the girl behind the counter was very confused and asked if I want 6 or 12 months free VED!

I expected problems the first renewal post MOT but it worked like a charm as did the new VED for the 110 ....


Heh, on my second 404, I had the same conversation, you do you want 6 or 12 months free. TBH, the lass stopped for a second, realized what she had said and laughed. That one was no issues for taxing though.

As I've said though Richard, the guys have the post office have always sorted things out with no issues, have you tried taxing any of yours either over the phone or online? This is where I've found problems.
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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I should have said - I was referring only to renewing online both for myself and everyone else I know I've spoken to with similar cars.

It makes no sense that 1 and 2 year old cars renew without issues without MOTs yet you have endless problems Confused

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mmgemini
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Joined: 26 Dec 2004
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Location: Stockton on Tees



PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a good idea. No more fussing to get the bit of paper into the holder.
No more getting prosecuted for "failing to display"
The computer system is easy. Go to web page and fill the details in, then punch card number in.
That way it takes me less time than waiting for the 'bus to take me to the post office. No mention of the time save to the 'bus stop or the long wait in the post office.

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mike FOAK

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

I can cause trouble in an empty house !!!
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