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Scottish independence - a serious discussion?
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Should Scotland leave the UK?
Yes (I'm Scottish)
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
Yes (I'm not Scottish)
20%
 20%  [ 6 ]
No (I'm Scottish)
13%
 13%  [ 4 ]
No (I'm not Scottish)
36%
 36%  [ 11 ]
I don't care (I'm Scottish)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I don't care (I'm not Scottish)
13%
 13%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 30

Author Message
RichardD
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You see? Bought and paid for, fair and square!
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gadgetboy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irrespective of the vote, Scotland and the United Kingdom can never be the same again and, in my opinion, the UK as it currently stands is doomed.
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** GED **
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trying to get my moneys worth.....





again
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w3526602
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

So ....

France invaded England (William the B""""")

Wales invaded England (Henry Twdr ... Not sure about the Welsh spelling)

England bought Scotland at a "distress" price. And now Salmond wants to buy it back, without actually paying for it? In effect, he wants us to pay him to take it away.

I can respect a nations desire to be independent. To ignore that desire could lead to armed conflict. I have less respect for the "cherry picking" that goes with it. But if the NOs win, I don't think the desire will go away.

602

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

w3526602 wrote:
But if the NOs win, I don't think the desire will go away.

602


That is, to my mind, the very essence of the situation we find ourselves in. With turnout looking to be over 70% and the vote being far too close to call, by definition almost half of voters will be disappointed.

I think though, given the Scots' ability to deal with a bad situation, the losing side will, by and large, knuckle down to making it work for the best. Although he was using it as posturing Salmond has said exactly that all along.

The worry will be those who see 'no' voters as traitors. These are the same people who think that vandalising No Campaign posters is acceptable. Where I live there are 10 or posters and banners which have been torn down, stickered over or otherwise defaced but I have yet to see a Yes poster attacked in the same way - rampant nationalism is always a worry.

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teamidris
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's so close I don't see it being anything but trouble either way. Half the voters being disappointed is spot on. Get ready for the days of bleeting from the loosing side for a re-count?
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Xpajun
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While having an early dinner tonight and watching bbc news the mention of banks relocating their HQ to London with Salmond saying it will not matter if they do because corporation tax will be due in the place where the transactions take place i.e. Scotland. Now if this becomes so (for those of you who are not business orientated Corporation Tax is due only in the country where the company is registered) this will ultimately mean higher prices on goods being sold in Scotland (if anyone, or any company, wants to sell there at all), probably the rest of Scotland joining the Highlands and Islands for a postage surcharge (if not a totally new, higher, postage rate).

Don't just take my word for it, John Lewis ad Next are already predicting higher prices in Scotland after a yes vote...
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w3526602
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(if not a totally new, higher, postage rate).

Hi,

Who's head will they put on the stamps? And where will they be printed?

Similarly, coins? And where are Scottish bank notes currently printed.

Dilapidated property in France increased in value, dramatically, in the lead up to them going "Euro". People had to find a way of converting all the Francs under the mattress, without explaining to the tax collectors where it came from.

602

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rhinoman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

w3526602 wrote:
And where are Scottish bank notes currently printed.
602


Just outside Basingstoke by the same privately owned company that the BofE use.
I expect that they will adorn their new currency with images of the Frenchman Robert de Bruce or Mel Gibson.
Personally I think that if the No vote wins by a narrow margin then there will be calls for another referendum soon.
Shouldn't postage be charged at the international rate? from here its further to Scotland than to a lot of France.

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Xpajun
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhinoman wrote:

Shouldn't postage be charged at the international rate? from here its further to Scotland than to a lot of France.



Well with Highlanders and Islanders already complaining about a £8 surcharge, they ain't going to be very happy having to pay 30 quid for a delivery Laughing
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DD
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Move then.

The highland clearances were a blessing for many!

As for the comment about France being closer, that's nearly as retarded as the yes camps argumentsM

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have little doubt that a Yes result will give an excuse for every courier and every online shop to charge extra for shipping to Scotland.

Just yesterday I ordered stuff and was told that shipping to Glasgow was £10 more than anywhere in England. The shop was in Manchester! When I said that would cancel and buy elsewhere the charge was instantly waived. That's said, this is not a new phenomenon.

Life will get much more expensive in an Independent Scotland but it is an ill wind etc, I've been offered a contract worth a lot of turnover if Scotland becomes Independent. As I've said before, I think it would very bad for everyone and I'm voting No but I'm planning for Yes as well; no way will I abandon ship.

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Xpajun
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardD wrote:
I've been offered a contract worth a lot of turnover if Scotland becomes Independent.



So vote yes and you get the contract Rolling Eyes

Sorry Richard I see that as a kind of bribe Laughing


As for the postage surcharge it's put on by the couriers and passed on to the customers.... and the surcharge applies to all the islands around the UK - not just the Scottish isles (granted the Highlands have to pay extra as well)
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bribe? That's just silly.

If Scotland is independent then a few opportunities are highly likely to come my way. That is business.

I'm still voting No. The closer we get to the vote the more paranoid and strident Salmond gets. Fact is Independence is several steps too far and we would lose out in almost every way.

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rhinoman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD wrote:

As for the comment about France being closer, that's nearly as retarded as the yes camps argumentsM


The point I was making is that it would be no cheaper to deliver between Scotland and England than it would be to deliver to some other foreign countries. In any case, with a separate currency then it wouldn't be possible for postage rates to remain the same across the two countries.
I hadn't seen this article when I posted that:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article...expert-warns.html


If Scotland ends up outside the EU then the postage rates to post to Scotland could well be far higher than to post to France, its a similar scenario to airport taxes in the Channel Islands. It would all complicate the process of doing business with a Scottish company and may encourage some businesses to move South to reduce costs. Of course if Scotland suffers from going independent or can offer sufficient incentives then there is also the possibility of firms moving North to take advantage of cheaper labour.

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w3526602
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its a similar scenario to airport taxes in the Channel Islands.

Hi,

I think Jersey has a population of about 85,000 ... about the size of a town in Britain. Scotland has a population of 100 times that. ??? And a LOT more land, industry, etc. Jersey seems to do OK, but that might be due to the high percentage of millionaires who live there.

Or maybe it's got something to do with being able to sell DVDs in UK without charging VAT. Last I heard, the Jersey Government were about whether the proposed 3% VAT should be on each item, or on the total bill.

Whatever, there are a lot of threats coming from the YES side, with them saying they will nationalise any business that says it will move South. Has that decision been taken before it is debated and voted on in the proposed Scottish Parliament?

By nationalise, do they mean take over, paying compensation? Or just take?

602

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Toseland
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So yesturday Mr Salmon decided to say if there was a yes or a no vote that would be it because "it was a once in a lifetime opportunity"


who is going to be the one to put a bet on that

A. if its a yes vote, itll be because the first minister was right all along
B. if its a no vote he will be complaining about westminster conspiracies and demanding a revote

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w3526602
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I can understand why some Scots want independence ... I would love my house to be independent. But seperation would be like a divorce, best if amicable.

But things can get rough if one partner wants to cherry pick the assets. "Yes Dear, you can keep the car but I want to be able to use it on alternate Wednedays, and if you change it, the new one must meet my approval. And you can collect the kids from school!!"

So, if Scotland keeps the pound, will that affect our ability to devalue, revalue, change interest rates, change VAT rates, impose currency restrictions, change to the Euro, etc? Would the Anglo government be able to make financial decisions without consulting Scotland?

I believe it is/was the norm to nip over the Irish border to buy goods at a lower tax rate?

I have heard that the Dutch are buying up property in Spain, in anticipation of rising sea levels. Maybe there is some plan to sell off the less hospitable areas of Scotland for similar reasons. Hmmm! I might have some of that.

602 (Half Scots, quarter Welsh, quarter York)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that pretty much sums it up 602 - it's all or nothing.
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teamidris
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think sharing the pound is infeasible. It's like sharing the euro.
The UK is in the EU and I recon Scotland would have to be to currency share the pound. If it were in the EU, what's the point? Might as well use the Euro? If it's YES there will some serious bending of EU rules. Nothing changes for months which is negotiating time.

I'm not seeing it at all anyway. I can smell a super close NO vote. I don't believe the undecided will suddenly go YES in three days. I know polls can be off, but this one has been analysed to death by everyone including voters. It's not like folk are suddenly going to realise some amazing fact on Wednesday that throws it all off one way.

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w3526602
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

During a TV discussion today, somebody said that VAT and Corporation Tax would still be administered (charged?) by the UK government.

Er ... that's not what I would consider to be Independance. Did I get that wrong? Or have all the YES faction got it wrong?

602

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teamidris
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it is really a YOS vote? Mainly YES, but a little No as well Smile

Actually, that sounds to close to your average political solution to be funny Sad

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DD
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

602, that's Wong.

In a yes vote, Scotland has nothing whatsoever to do with the Uk. A totally separate and independent country.

However, there is a promise of more devolved powers in the event of a no vote, to include tax powers.

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hows about you all vote no, but then we kick you out just to teach you a lesson....
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DD
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is "we", and who exactly are you speaking on the behalf of?

It's the UK we are talking about, not Engerlund.

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DD
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, sense of humour has now truly been thrown out of the pram with this shoite now.

Who are these brave heart fools that want to destroy the union? What, exactly, do they think will be better? Will they al have ******* mansions and a million pounds in the bank?

On a daily basis, how do they actually envisage life improving?


Sorry, but I'm now scared.........

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD wrote:
Who is "we", and who exactly are you speaking on the behalf of?

It's the UK we are talking about, not Engerlund.


oi, dont take it out on me, you lot started it......

and as for UNITED kingdom.......

again, maybe not.

sleep tight....
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DD
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right there. Nothing united about it now.

Engerlund hates the scots now (even more judging by the sounds of some of the comments in here alone), half of the scots are up in arms.

All 'wee eck' has succeeded in doing is isolating an entire country from the uk (whether wanted or not and irrespective of referendum result), and furthermore isolating swathes of the populous within that country.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think you are over estimating our feelings a bit there don.

most of us couldnt give a flying....

stay, go....meh.

i cant see it effecting me really. maybe a few things will go up in price, maybe they wont. but theres f all i can do about that either.

life becomes a whole lot easier when you realise that beyond your own little circle, you matter not a jot and can change very little.

do you think jock mctavish in Auchtermuchty cares what happens to me when he votes next thursday?

probably as much as i care which way he votes.

the horse will still want putting out, there will still be manure to shovel, dogs to walk and kids to feed..

i will do the same after you lot vote and if i have to pay 5p more for scottish porridge, ill go the aldi round the corner and get something else.

wee eck is your responsibility, your problem.

the problem is, you have allowed him to make your bed, and now you will all have to lie in it, no matter what.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q) What happens to Wee Eck if Scotland votes No?

Presumably he'll stay on as leader until the next election at least, basking in his new powers as promised by the rUK for staying in the UK.

But come the next election will he be voted out for failing to win independence, or will he be given another five years to win even more concessions, thereby inching Scotland towards independence in all but name?
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