Ford ranger 2007 overheating problem HELP PLEASE!

[pauljaq]

Hi,

New on here. Thought someone on here might be able to shed some light on the overheating problem we have on our Ford Ranger 3.0 16 valve TDCi Auto engine code ER69 (Mazda engine), only light use and 46K miles.
My wife was driving when it overheated on a local drive. AA picked her up and sniff tested the coolant. The AA man said the head gasket had gone as there was traces of combustion gasses in the coolant. I took the head off and replaced the head gasket. I did this following the Ford workshop manual I have on CD. I also replaced the head bolts. I couldn't see any signs of head gasket failure though. I went for a test run and she over heated and blew out water after only a few miles of gentle driving - the truck not the wife! After chatting to a few garage mates whom work at a local 4x4 place, they suggested these heads can crack by the injector hole. So I got a bare head from Milner off road, transferred all the bits from the old head to the new casting. Put it back together with another new head gasket. Took her for a run, same result - OK idling and warms up to normal temp. doesn't overheat at a standstill during the coolant replacement procedure advised in the manual; revving for 5 mins at 2500rpm, then 5 second blips at 3000rpm, wait to cool down, top up the rad if needed. But under normal driving it overheats after about 5 miles, also at the same time as overheating - needle going up to and into the red, the heater stops working, which indicates no flow through or air in the heater matrix. So next step was to pressure test the cooling system using a proper test kit from the local garage. Should hold 17psi and it couldn't as it dropped off gradually. So there was a leak some where. Finally tracked it down to the Exhaust gas recycling cooler; we took the EGR cooler off and connected the water coolant feed and return pipes, then pressure tested again. Water trickeld out of the exhaust gas pipe run. So the verdict was this was leaking internally and was probably the cause of the original overheating problem. So I made a couple of blanking plates and blanked it off at both ends of the cooler. I connected the feed and return coolant pipe together so they don't run through the cooler. We pressure tested again and it held the pressure rock steady for much longer than the recommended 10 seconds. So that should be it. But NO still overheating / blowing out water from the rad / expansion tank. So checked the thermostat, it opened to the required amount at the correct temp. but I replaced it with new just to eliminate it. I also replaced the rad cap - just in case it was blowing off prematurely!!! I also took the water pump off and flushed out the block and coolant runs. I flushed out the heater matrix, the rad,all the hoses, the thermostat housing. I replaced the water pump, but couldn't find anything wrong with the old one, but though the impeller might turn on the shaft when hot so it was replaced with new. After that it still overheats. The only odd things are some whitetish water flushed out of the block to start with, but it could have been aerated water. I have only ever been able to drain out and fill 5.5 litres when the system should take 9.5 litres. The heater goes cold when it overheats. It only overheats when I go for a drive - not when you stand idling or reving. My only thought could it be something to do with the turbo as it is on boost only when the engine is under load?? Could the cooling system be loosing pressure and water through the turbo cooling system, but only when the turbo is hot or under boost. I thought about testing it by not connecting the feed and return coolant pipes to the turbo, to see if the engine over heats. If I can rig up a secondary separate water tank with a pump to feed the turbo with coolant while the test drive is on, if not would I ****** the turbo by not running water through it during a short test? I'm just at a total loss as to what the fault can be. Any help or advice would be much appreciated!!! Cheers in advance Paul

[cynic-al]

That sounds annoying! Have you pressure tested the cylinders to ensure the leaks are all fixed and are you completely sure there are no air locks? How quickly does the needle go to the red? Have you tried it with the heater blanked off?

[teamidris]

It can be that things only leak when they are hot. I've earned money for work by hot testing heat exchangers and finding leaks, as when cold they were tight. Testing with the parts normal fluid at normal temperature is a general rule for testing.

Any fear of a cylinder liner getting cavitaion corrosion on this engine? It used to be a classic fault on big engines in the 60's and 70's, but now you don't hear of it?

Are we talking turbo cooling like I get in ATEX, where the whole turbo body is cooled? Or is it just a bearing coolant line? On a turbo boost of 15psi max would it blow the rad water out?

I'm with Cynic-al on the individual cylinder pressure test. I don't want to condemn a new head casting out of turn, but it can happen. Before you take the truck to the woods and sacrifice it to the fire imps, it's worth a check

[4runner]

Does the ranger have a viscous cooling fan - is that working correctly?

[pauljaq]

My ranger does have a viscous coupling fan, but it seems to be working OK; it spins when cold or hot. Also when I go out for a short drive it only takes a few miles for the engine to overheat and this is when the weather is cold also, so I don't think it is the fan.

I can get the engine up to normal operating temp. with it stood idling and can also rev it up stood and it doesn't overheat, so things are up to temp, it only seems to overheat when under load / boost.

I think the boost would down around 10 psi, so can't see boost pressure leaking into the cooling system as the problem.

Ref. individual cylinder pressure test, do you mean compression check for each cylinder?

I haven't looked at the turbo in detail, all I know is there is a water feed and return to the bearing area, it might extend to the whole or part of the casing which in turn might have a leak when hot or under boost, hence my idea of testing it without connecting the feed and return pipes to the turbo - run a separate feed and return from a separate tank of water with a little pump, connect the feed and return pipes together to see if it still overheats.

I'm not completely sure there are no air locks as I only seem to be able to drain off and put back 5.5 litres and the manual says it should take 9 litres!! But I can't see how or where the bleed point would be?

It overheats very quickly once it starts to overheat and the heater goes cold when the overheating starts. I haven't tried it with the heater blanked off, I could connect the heater feed and return pipes to bypass the heater and then test.

It does hold the coolant pressure test when cold.

Like I said I think the original problem was the EGR cooler leaking, that is now blanked off, but it could have caused other problems.

Any more ideas; I'm at a loss!!

Cheers Paul

[dxmedia]

When its up to temperature, is the top hose to the radiator rock hard or can you squidge it ok?

[pauljaq]

The top hose is hard when up to temp. it is also hard soon after starting the engine when cold. It is hard when it overheats and blows out coolant into the expansion tank. Then when it cools down it doesn't seem to suck coolant back in but the top hose squezzes in easy and you can tell it has no water in there. Then I top up and the hose has water back in it.

[cynic-al]

Only a guess but I wonder if only taking half the coolant and the needle moving very quickly would make me wonder if it is an air lock. I can drive my Isuzu 5 miles in this weather before the needle comes off the bottom. Have you found all the bleed points? Sometimes they're on the water pump or half way along a hose?

[pauljaq]

I have the full workshop manual and it doesn't indicate any bleed points at all. I have followed it to the letter in terms of filling coolant and it doesn't tell you to do anything special. I'm wondering if there are any bleed points at the top of the heater matrix, someone I spoke said they had a real problem bleeding air out of a merc van coolant until they were told about a bleed point under the dash on top of the heater matrix! I might make a bleed point out of 15mm copper pipe and cut one of the heater hoses to bleed at that point. I have tried partly pulling the pipes off at that point to bleed any air I can.

[dxmedia]

[Xpajun]

[cynic-al]

I thought he'd done a compression test... or have I misread...

[pauljaq]

I have replaced the head gasket twice, first when I thought it was just that and again with another new one when I put the new head on. The first time round I used new bolts from Milner, they looked like the correct bolts - star type head etc, but I didn't check the tensile figure on the head of the bolt. I didn't put new bolts in again when I put the new head on, as they measured OK to the workshop manual dims they give you to check bolts are OK, also they had only done a few minutes running time.
The head casting is new so shouldn't be cracked - but anythings possible, also the cooling system holds pressure under a pressure test.
Dunno about the bore, couldn't see any evidence of failure, I'm not sure how to test that???

[dxmedia]

Did you check the block for flatness?

Just read it's a new head, did you also check that?

[pauljaq]

I did check the block for flatness when I cleaned up the surface from the old gasket. It looked OK. I didn't check the new head. Worst case I'll have top take them apart again and check, but rather not if it is some other silly problem, such as how to fill the system and / or bleed it!!

[Quetzel]

Stick the front end up on ramps so the rad is the highest point, make sure heater is on, then fill. May take some time but persist.

[pauljaq]

Thanks for the advice. We have a floodbank at the bottom of our garden and I parked the ranger up the floodbank with the rad at the top hoping it would help. It didn't but maybe I have to try it a few times to get the air out. Heater was on to allow air to flow out of that. Think I might add a T piece and a bleed point in the heater pipe.

[dxmedia]

I've never had a problem bleeding anything (to the extent that I'm starting to think that airlocks are a myth )

Take off the pressure cap on the rad.

Turn the heaters on full.

Start the engine and leave till it gets hot, then leave idling for another 15 minutes, all the time topping up the rad with coolant.

A good squidge on the top hose to blow water through every so often.

One full system with no air bubbles that I've ever found.

If you start from cold with a full rad, does the water level pulse and bubble? If so that's a giveaway that compression is getting into the water galleries.

[pauljaq]

Hi,
I'm still trying to sort this out. the latest is we run the engine on idle and it doesn't overheat. I take it for a run and it overheats within about 4 miles, this is driving gently. Also the heater doesn't get warm at all which must have something to do with the problem, either at idle or driving, it seems as though there is air in there or the water is not circulating. We have had all the pipes of and flushed through including the heater matrix, with no problems - water flows through. I've tested both thermostats I have - one original and one new, both open at the correct temp. When we pull in and it is overheating the top of the rad is very hot, the middle is hot and the bottom only luke warm if that, the bottom hose up the thermostat housing is just off cold? I'm going to try without the thermostat in just to see if it overheats at all even after longer running. I know I can't run like that, but want to get some info.
HELP!!
I might get a combustion gas in coolant tester to see if it is that.

I have put two bottles of K seal in which have done nothing.

There seems to be a big slug of air in there, or the coolant is not circulating.

Yes the rad might be blacked / partially blocked, but water flushes through it and the heater system bypasses the main rad and the thermostat - hence that bit should work also.

I put a new head on - could it be some swarf from inside the new head blocking somewhere - but water seems to flush through everywhere!!??

Cheers Paul

[cynic-al]

Are you sure all the pipes went back in the right place and the water pump is good? I'm really not familiar with that engine so can't comment specifically.

I had a forklift that I couldn't get to bleed no matter what I did until I found a bleed screw behind a shroud, do you have a manual or know any ford commercial mechanics?

[pauljaq]

Hi, Thanks for the reply. I have a full ford workshop manual. As far as I'm aware all the pipes have gone back in the correct place, the way they sit it would be difficult to route them wrong but I see what you mean, I will double check. I have removed them all inc. the radiator to flush them out / look through them and they were all clear. I have replaced the water pump, thinking the impellor might be turning on the shaft when it gets hot and I have replaced the thermostat, but both the old one and the new one tested OK in a saucepan at the correct temp. I'm going to try without the thermostat in place, just to see what that does. I have pressure tested the system and it hold pressure Ok now. It didn't as the EGR cooler was leaking internally, I have blanked that off now from the exhaust manifold and connected the coolant feed and return pipes together so the cooling system is not leaking through the EGR cooler. I can't see any bleed point in the heater matrix - but can't get to it without taking the dash apart, there is no reference to a bleed point in the manual. The rad seem to flush through OK, there just doesn't seem to be any flow through the heater as it is cold or not hot even when the engine overheats, also the bottom rad hose is not hot just luke warm or just above cold when checked immediately after pulling up from an overheating spell. These engines are Mazda, rebadged as Ford. See more info. ref. replacing the head etc in terms of what I have done. Short of taking the complete engine apart, flushing it out completly and crack testing the block, I don't know what to do, I don't want to go for a new engine because of the cost and this one has only done 46K miles and now has a new head. Any ideas anyone, I'm starting to despair! Cheers Paul

[Xpajun]

[pauljaq]

Thanks for the info.

I do have a new head & gasket (gasket twice), and new Milner bolts which were measured on the last reuse but that and were in spec. on free length, but if they are lower tensile that they should be they could over stretch and not allow the new gasket to seal properly.

The cooling system holds 16 psi on test, but that is a lot less than compression pressure, it only blows out water into the expansion tank when it overheats and does suck it back in when it cools. I would have thought the combustion gas pressure would pressurise the coolant to more than 16psi which would mean it would blow out when cold and not just when hot - unless the 'crack' if there is one only opens up when the engine is hot??

Hopefully the new head hasn't cracked straight away; we didn't run it when the temp went up!

We I took the head off originally I couldn't see any evidence of head gasket failure and the same applies for the replacement gasket inspected the last time I took the head off.

I'll flush the whole system out, fill it with clean water and run it, to test the water for combustion gasses with a tester before I take it all apart again!

What I don't understand is why does it only overheat when you take it for a very short and gentle run, but will idle forever and rev up stood still without overheating. Could it be something to do with the Turbo on boost causing a problem, maybe a leak through the turbo via the feed an return coolant pipes??

Cheers Paul

[Xpajun]

[pauljaq]

At last the problem is sorted. Tried block sealer - no luck. Same problems as listed before, heater doesn't work, top hose hard, water blows out after a short 4 mile run and overheats. Took the rad cap off again and ran from cold, bubbles + water kept coming out. So took the plunge and took the head off again. Whilst loosening the head bolts, I kept an eye on how tight they all were. In one area down the exhaust side of cylinder number 1 & 2 there seemed a little looser but only just. When the head came off I could see a track from the cylinder to a water jacket hole both on cylinder 1 & 2 where it looked like it had been leaking. I measured all the 18 bolts and they were all out of spec. too long. There is a lower length dim and a higher length dim and then a max dim which is a bit longer than the higher length dim. They were all just longer than the max. length. NOTE these were an non original bolt set bought new and only used once after the initial build- see earlier in thread. The workshop manual says you should be able to use the bolts up to 3 times. So a quick rummage in the bin found the originals and a full clean of them done, measured them and they were still in spec. between the lower and higher range and no where near the max. - bearing in mind we are taking fractions of mm's. I compared the look of the originals to the 'new' after market ones - the originals looked much better quality. I then dug out of the bin the original head gasket and compared it to the 'new' aftermarket one, it looked a lot different - the aftermarket one was dead flat almost, the original had a very pronounced embossed pattern in particular around the cylinders and the water ways - where it needed to seal properly - so the original was made to seal better. So plan was to use the original bolts that the engine was made with and buy a new FORD gasket - £103 later I had the gasket ( the cheap one was £40). I also blew out all the bolt holes in the top of the block - there was gunk in some which could hydraulic and stop the bolt tightening down properly on the head. Threw it all back together and Hey presto, no hard top hose or bubbles with the rad cap off when cold, heater worked straight away - the cylinder pressure in the top of the engine coolant must have been stopping proper circulation around the heater. Took it for a run with heart in mouth - no problem inc. some acceleration full engine load runs. How can sh*t bolts and head gaskets be sold which just are not fit for purpose. I have never had a problem using non OEM parts but in future when it comes to head bolts and gaskets on high compression engine that all I will do and all I would suggest anyone else does; I have been through one set of sh*t bolts and 2 sh*t head gaskets costing more than the originals in the end. Don't suppose the supplier will give me a refund!!! Thanks again to Xpajun for convincing me to go again for the big job even though I shouldn't have had to going on what I had bought and done.

[pauljaq]

At last the problem is sorted. Tried block sealer - no luck. Same problems as listed before, heater doesn't work, top hose hard, water blows out after a short 4 mile run and overheats. Took the rad cap off again and ran from cold, bubbles + water kept coming out. So took the plunge and took the head off again. Whilst loosening the head bolts, I kept an eye on how tight they all were. In one area down the exhaust side of cylinder number 1 & 2 there seemed a little looser but only just. When the head came off I could see a track from the cylinder to a water jacket hole both on cylinder 1 & 2 where it looked like it had been leaking. I measured all the 18 bolts and they were all out of spec. too long. There is a lower length dim and a higher length dim and then a max dim which is a bit longer than the higher length dim. They were all just longer than the max. length. NOTE these were an non original bolt set bought new and only used once after the initial build- see earlier in thread. The workshop manual says you should be able to use the bolts up to 3 times. So a quick rummage in the bin found the originals and a full clean of them done, measured them and they were still in spec. between the lower and higher range and no where near the max. - bearing in mind we are taking fractions of mm's. I compared the look of the originals to the 'new' after market ones - the originals looked much better quality. I then dug out of the bin the original head gasket and compared it to the 'new' aftermarket one, it looked a lot different - the aftermarket one was dead flat almost, the original had a very pronounced embossed pattern in particular around the cylinders and the water ways - where it needed to seal properly - so the original was made to seal better. So plan was to use the original bolts that the engine was made with and buy a new FORD gasket - £103 later I had the gasket ( the cheap one was £40). I also blew out all the bolt holes in the top of the block - there was gunk in some which could hydraulic and stop the bolt tightening down properly on the head. Threw it all back together and Hey presto, no hard top hose or bubbles with the rad cap off when cold, heater worked straight away - the cylinder pressure in the top of the engine coolant must have been stopping proper circulation around the heater. Took it for a run with heart in mouth - no problem inc. some acceleration full engine load runs. How can sh*t bolts and head gaskets be sold which just are not fit for purpose. I have never had a problem using non OEM parts but in future when it comes to head bolts and gaskets on high compression engine that all I will do and all I would suggest anyone else does; I have been through one set of sh*t bolts and 2 sh*t head gaskets costing more than the originals in the end. Don't suppose the supplier will give me a refund!!! Thanks again to Xpajun for convincing me to go again for the big job even though I shouldn't have had to going on what I had bought and done.

[cynic-al]

Wow, glad you got it sorted! I once had a problem with an aftermarket suzuki head gasket that just didn't have some of the holes in :/

[Xpajun]

Well done you - best post I've seen on here for ages

[RichardD]

Just found this thread and delighted you got it sorted.

My view is always go for quality over price on mission critical parts like gaskets and bolts - I've had too many problems like yours.

[jeepmadmike]

Glad you got to the bottom of it,

I used to be happy with uk made pattern part gaskets, but it all now appears to be made in China with no quality control......

Head bolt torque is so important to, i once fixed a montego which leaked oil between the head and block just by torquing them up with a breaker bar it was that or pull it apart so I thought it was worth a go!