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Wales Rally GB
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excossack
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Wales Rally GB Reply with quote

Anyone else out on this years WRGB ?
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LlaniGraham
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mid Stage Safety Officer in Hafren on Friday.
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mmgemini
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't be bothered with treasure hunts.
Do you know that nowadays the ones that sit behind the wheel go to bed on a night.

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excossack
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing the recce stages on Tuesday, Thursday Llandegla and the night stage in Clogeanog and then Friday in Myherin
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LlaniGraham
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have fun in Myherin, John.
Are you spectating or marshalling/recovery?

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excossack
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radio on all days. Have fun yourself.
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LlaniGraham
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

excossack wrote:
Radio on all days. Have fun yourself.


I have no doubt I'll hear you at some time then.
Hopefully I'll have a nice quiet day, At least I've only got to drive a few miles to get in.

Worcester 1, out.

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excossack
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't hear you on the airwaves. Not sure if you heard me Gemini 33.
A good event but had a bit more driving than you. Left home at 4am Friday for Myherin and go back about 8:30pm

Thursday was an early one and late finish after doing the Cloggy stage and getting in a 11:30pm.
Did you have a good day(s)?

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LlaniGraham
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

excossack wrote:
Didn't hear you on the airwaves. Not sure if you heard me Gemini 33.
A good event but had a bit more driving than you. Left home at 4am Friday for Myherin and go back about 8:30pm

Thursday was an early one and late finish after doing the Cloggy stage and getting in a 11:30pm.
Did you have a good day(s)?


I was using the callsign Hafren Mid Point 3 on the A band most of the time, but used my own call sign on the way out following Hawk Rescue when we found this:

Somehow had got missed!!
Then ended up stuck whilst they got Kubica's car out of the ditch. Finally got back into Llani at 1900.

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excossack
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm Think I did hear Hafren Mid Point 3 on the A system then!
How do you miss that! I saw the roll of Kubicas little incident!

Any pics of the recovery? Can PM my address over if you want to email some?

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LlaniGraham
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are still trying to work out how car 100 got missed!

Didn't get anything of Kubica's recovery as by the time we got there it was dark and they had just managed to get it upright and out of the ditch, then it had to have a dolly fitted under the rear axle so they could drag it out of the stage.

Short video of ours:

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excossack
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers. It was nicely parked I see & nice recovery unit as well. Was that Wyeroc?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LlaniGraham wrote:
We are still trying to work out how car 100 got missed!



That's why the MSA are looking at tracking

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mmgemini
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with good old fashioned check sheets ?

What happened to the closing car ?

I suppose this is what is to be expected to a treasure hunt run under FISA regs.

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mike FOAK

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excossack
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check sheets are fine when you can read the numbers given speed, mud on the numbers and being a min of 30m back from stage.
How the closing car missed it not sure!


And yup the MSA are looking at tracking, saw the email from them and there is a thread on the rally forum

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Xpajun
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And will the MSA be looking at the positioning of "bystanders or Marshals" right next to the winch wire on future recoveries?
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mmgemini
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

excossack wrote:
Check sheets are fine when you can read the numbers given speed, mud on the numbers and being a min of 30m back from stage.
How the closing car missed it not sure!


And yup the MSA are looking at tracking, saw the email from them and there is a thread on the rally forum


Hmmph.....Yes it is possible. Well it was in my day. The speed hasn't changed that much. There was still the dirt.
BUT
In those days there wasn't a marshal every twen feet. A paramedic every twenty and a doctor every thirty. I don't even remember an ambulace for each stage.
I suppose these short on mileage events run by the RAC MSA for FISA draw the money in.
Another thing. Pace notes IMO should never have been allowed in the forests.
You see I remember the RAC ally as a full UK event including Scotland. He who came clean through Keilder generally won.
I remember a SAAB driver going off in Dalby. SAAB were there first to recover the car

I'm after a copy of Night Moves by Dave Orrick. Anybody got a copy I could borrow to read.

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mmgemini
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested to know "how many competitive miles" there were on this FISA event this year.
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mike FOAK

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LlaniGraham
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,
Don't think it is was WyeRoc, but can't remember exactly. There was also a 110 hooked onto the front, just in case it slipped sideways. Hawk rigged the yellow strop when we first found it.

I've sent my report to the Stage Commander, so what happens next will be up to him, but I have raised a few questions. Was noticeable that the crew hadn't activated their tracker. Might have helped if had been in Estonian, perhaps?

It is all too easy to miss a car, even using check sheets, especially if there are lots of things going on at the time.

The one proposal for "tracking" has already been shot down, as it needed the mobile phone network to work. Yeah right, can see that working perfectly in Hafren, etc!!

Xpajun wrote:
And will the MSA be looking at the positioning of "bystanders or Marshals" right next to the winch wire on future recoveries?

The winch operator was perfectly happy with where everyone was stood, and as they are very experienced I saw no need to query that.

I wish there was a marshall every 20 yards, it would make life so much easier, but at the moment the numbers of marshalls is decreasing. And it has to be remembered that the change to shorter events was "forced" on the FIA by the manufacturers, and not the other way around. It was a battle getting them to agree to a move from Cardiff to North Wales this year.

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excossack
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure I will find out who it was in due course.
As for tracking, it needs to be mobile phone network free or at least combine two forms in the same box. Maybe something like using APRS that can transmit GPS data and other forms of data over the Amateur radio network/frequencies. Maybe it could even be done over the MSA frequencies?

I did wonder why they didn't press the panic button - How does this work anyway? Mobile network ?

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Mr Tyre
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend has completed the 3 day national event.112 stage miles, 600 liaison miles.For the 900 pound entry fee they get two and three quarters ish BTRDA events but 600 'liaison' miles, i can't see what they have saved if anything by moving the event but look at it this way, rally drivers do drive in the dark.
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Xpajun
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LlaniGraham wrote:

Xpajun wrote:
And will the MSA be looking at the positioning of "bystanders or Marshals" right next to the winch wire on future recoveries?

The winch operator was perfectly happy with where everyone was stood, and as they are very experienced I saw no need to query that.




I'm sorry, but being experienced is no excuse for stupidity...


There is no winch blanket being used, it is wire rather than plasma type rope, there is more than one person within the recoil distance of a snapped wire and because they are in your words 'experienced' you think it's ok

It is not OK it is plain stupidity bred by complacency, showing this and saying it's ok to do it this way is sending out a message to newbies that this is the way to winch

I bet all you marshals would be the first to condemn others for this low standard of safety Rolling Eyes
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LlaniGraham
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xpajun,
Are you a MSA Licenced Recovery Operator?

I suggest that since you weren't there, and only have the video from my phone, which is not of the best quality, that you accept that the operator considered it safe to undertake it as he did, with the very short length of cable required.

Good night!

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Toseland
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LlaniGraham wrote:
Xpajun,
Are you a MSA Licenced Recovery Operator?

I suggest that since you weren't there, and only have the video from my phone, which is not of the best quality, that you accept that the operator considered it safe to undertake it as he did, with the very short length of cable required.

Good night!


dont feed the troll, llani mate..

not-withstanding that that rope looks like 9/16ths, possibly rated at upwards of 5 tonnes, usually with the HSE's 7:1 safety margin, and attached via a certified, and quite possibly HSE registered and checked hooks etc, and on a specifically designed lifting/towing point attached via the very specific regulations set out by the MSA (i assume there are).

i dont see some moron you would find at the local PNP site, with a kinetic rope attached to someones bumper with a knot in a nylon rope, and a lead right foot.



Oh.. and whilst you are at it on your little crusade Xpajun, why dont you go and whine at pretty much EVERY RAC/AA/Green flag/contractor with a flatbed, cause i have YET to see a winch blanket being used, even when i had the pleasure of working in some RTC investigation at university, seeing 10tonne arctics moved/recovered without winch blankets..

guess the whole world is going to die as a result of this

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Last edited by Toseland on Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mmgemini
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So nobody knows the competitive length of this so called big rally.
One day. Two days.
One full day and one full night.

I'd be interested to know.

As for marshalls.
Well none are now needed at the stage start or finish. They I'm told are automatic. A log way from a single person with a Wharton.

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Mr Tyre
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was 312.3 stage km's 1190.5 liaison km's total 1502.8.They ran Thursday from 18.00 to 20.00 ish, all day Friday and Saturday finished Sunday afternoon.

Last edited by Mr Tyre on Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Andy Mills
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^shouldn't that be kilometres, which would make it
SS - 194.10 miles
Liaison - 739.78 miles
Total - 933.88 miles
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LlaniGraham
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmgemini wrote:

As for marshalls.
Well none are now needed at the stage start or finish. They I'm told are automatic. A log way from a single person with a Wharton.


Sorry, but marshalls are most definately required at Start and Finish!!
It is not an automatic system, but has to be "launched" for each car, plus there still has to be people present to check that no-one takes a "flyer" and that the system does actually work properly.
Finish ditto.

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excossack
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There certainly are marshals at the start and finish. Have you been to any rallies?
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Mr Tyre
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Mills wrote:
^shouldn't that be kilometres, which would make it
SS - 194.10 miles
Liaison - 739.78 miles
Total - 933.88 miles


Yes it should have been in kilometres i have now edited it to read it in km's.
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