Grangemouth Refinery. first the strike is off, then this!

scrunt

Strike was on, strike was off, now this.
Calm, and no panic, but be prepared maybe if in Scotland or the North of England.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24546521

jeepmadmike · Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject:

Best way shut it down before the unions screw it up!

DD · Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:32 pm Post subject:

I was going to type a longer reply, but am away out to panic buy some diesel!

On another note, Why is that SPAM ****** of a first minister on every report these days? Can I not read the news without his poison spreading further?

scrunt · Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:15 pm Post subject:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24571012

The Unite Union well and truly got its bluff called this time and now the employees have to decide by next week, to accept the changes in Wages & Pensions or go.
So that has not gone well.

5 years ago in 2008, they got the Refinery and the Forties Pipeline closed,
So it did not take a genius in the Ineos Plants Management & owners to put a spoiler on Unites little attempt at a crisis in 2013.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7367002.stm
2008 timeline,
Plant shut down in the week leading up.
Not so sure this time what we can expect next week.

EDIT.
Latest Mon. 21/10/2013
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24603346

scrunt · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:02 am Post subject:

Not good.
'Grangemouth Petrochemical Plant' not reopening and the employees losing their jobs.

'Grangemouth Refinery' still shut down pending Agreement from employees on the new Terms and Conditions on Wages & Pensions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24631342
http://news.sky.com/story/1158553/job-losses-as...al-plant-to-close

ed · Mud Obsessed Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312

What sort of impact will the closure of this and possibly the refinery have on the independence vote?

. · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject:

They will now have to re-apply for their jobs under new terms and conditions once it is sold and re-opened, and all because a Union rep tried to rig an election!.

ed · Mud Obsessed Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312

if they can find a buyer.

guess England could do Scotland a deal on fuel.. although it more likely the Chinese will get there first Cool

dxmedia · Mud Obsessed Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185

. · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:20 pm Post subject:

Not necessarily, I understand liquidators have been appointed to wind up the Company - they may not even get redundancy depending on how "creative" the liquidators are.

RichardD · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:13 pm Post subject:

RichardD · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:17 pm Post subject:

I should point out that Ineos have been good customers .... I and my employees are losing out as well.

ed · Mud Obsessed Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312

It was a genuine question - do folks think the economic impact and the possible reduction in security of supply will make people think. Or it'll be no issue.

Grangemouth is the only refinery in Scotland. There are only 9 in the UK, 6 in England - Teesside is next closest, and 2 in Wales

. · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject:

According to the beeb there's only 7.

There's been no signs of panic buying here, yet, and AFAIK we are solely supplied from Grangemouth!

Muddy2 · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:26 pm Post subject: Something fishy going on

I feel sorry for the guys , i think the company s try a fast one fold the company up , start a new company next day , with new contracts .

. · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:40 pm Post subject:

They had the choice.

Many people have had to make sacrifices to save their jobs in the current economic climate. My staff have not had a pay rise in 3 years and me and my partner have had to take massive pay cuts but at least most of us are still employed.

Nightbar · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject:

What's a pay rise - all I know is that has risen is my bills.

Pension's been cut as well - and I have no recourse to complain.

ed · Mud Obsessed Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312

scrunt · Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:00 pm Post subject:

Tonight the Governments of the UK & Scotland seem to be getting their butts in action properly to see that Grangemouth Refinery gets Restarted
and the the jobs there are not lost like they have been at the Petrochemicals Plant.

Unite appear to have now accepted that the Terms & Conditions that 65% of their members rejected, but 50% of Employees accepted will have to be accepted to be able to the Refinery back up and operating.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/23...rochemicals-plant
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24631342

lambert · Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:15 am Post subject:

Just goes to prove that unions have no interest in their members only their officials and making a political point. If they were to give a damn then they wouldn't be sacrificing 800 jobs when everyone could take a little less and all keep their jobs. Ban the lot of them they're only interested in crippling the country.

. · Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:30 am Post subject:

DD · Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:19 pm Post subject:

Have to add my agreement there as well. Well said.

Union leaders: self-promoting reckless ********

scrunt · Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject:

No chance that the Union Barrons and full time officials will get punted by the members, but lets live in hope.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24683447

Toseland · Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:14 am Post subject:

so let me get this straight..

plant losing money, ineos say they need to make changes (no job losses) to keep it afloat and ensure worker job security

unions take vote. 50% of the workers vote in favour, 65% of the union votes for strikes? (the bloody hell are the unions doing allowing votes from non-worker members??)

Ineos calls bluff and says "****** it, we will just shut the refinery down.... have a nice day" (good for them)

Suddenly the unions think the originally proposed changes are a mighty fine idea and they get voted in without any objection? (who would have thought)

you know, a certain percentage of unions are a good idea (the FRONT LINE public service unions, fire/police/education etc) as (certainly with the NUT) they provide me with a valuable level of protection from certain aspects of my job... but this Chest beating by union members such as Unite, needs to be bloody well slapped down.

i am pretty sure i read somewhere this had potentially cost the uk economy £50million across its entirity..

in the style of the union's fair voting policy i propose a vote

Who thinks these union leaders should be hung drawn and quatered?

[ ] YES YES YES YES YES

[ ] no

scrunt · Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:38 am Post subject:

The Union Unite did not ask the Employees anything.
After the Strike over a Unite Convener Stephen Deans was called off,
That Strike was called after a Ballot of UNite UNion Members.
(There was no Strike or Ballot over Pay & Conditions in 2013,
there was 5 years ago in 2008)

What happened this time was,
The Company wrote to their Employees asking them to accept the changes to Wages & Pensions, 'The Survival Package.

THe replies were almost 50/50 to accept.
Of those Employees that did not accept, 65% were Unite Members.

Todays news & this weeks important thing will be the Unite & ED Miliband story.
Seemingly the Emails showing that Unite were trying to Dupe Miliband & Labour over the Falkirk Candidate selection.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477725...igging-probe.html
You might spot where the Emails have been discovered.
That makes a bit of a connection to events.

Nightbar · Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:50 am Post subject:

^^^ that about sums it up ^^^

unclebazwold · Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:13 pm Post subject:

If the unions were for the workers they would not give money to Labour it was Labour when Gordon Brown was chancellor who ******** up the tax breaks so companies stopped final salary pensions condemning thousands of workers to a crappy retirement mines just ending after me paying into it for 29 years cheers Gordon.
All these parties and the unions are just playing a game they really don't care too much about us that's why i don't vote if they had a box on the ballot paper you could tick titled no confidence in any of the above then i might.
Bazza

. · Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:54 am Post subject:

scrunt · Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:45 am Post subject:

I read that again and i am still wrong, as the media often were, and as the Union Spokesperson seemed happy to let the confusion continue.
Idea

I think it is.
100% of Employees were asked in writing, by their employer.

Of the 100%, 65% were members of Unite.
The returns came out as around 50/50 of employees asked were prepared to accept.

So i think that means that there may have as a minimum around 15% of the Unite members were prepared to accept the new conditions.

As it stands now, 100% of Unite Members & 100% of non Union members have now accepted the new terms. I think.

george

ed · Mud Obsessed Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312

Company wrote to employees - 50/50 split. Unite wrote separately with
60% of responses against.

Unions have to contact members separately to employers.

To be honest I think there may if been some backroom dealings between company and more pragmatic union reps. Knowing that changes where needed but constitutionally bound (therefore legally obliged) to consult members and act on their vote knowni.g they would reject and company close. Allowing them both to cone up with a recovery plan instead of shutting - both sides keep face and restructuring goes ahead.

Wouldn't be the first time