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Portal or HD axles for range rover classic
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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Portal or HD axles for range rover classic Reply with quote

Whats the best thing to do with the axles on a range rover classic ?

The car will be used on the road - mainly to drive to and from events and the odd green laning trip ! and the rest off road,

Do you get a " bolt on " portal axle or is it alot of work ?

Would i be better getting a st of these instead ?

http://www.lrparts.net/product/diff-lockers-dri...d-diff-cases.html

and just putting a diff guard underneath so it should " slide along " rather than dig in ?

Or just bit the bullet and take a few months to modify and fit a set of portals ?

Whats the best bet?

Thanks ! Razz
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teamidris
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say standard axel cases and fill them with Ashcroft shafts and air lockers. You'll still need over £3k.
Not sure what would be best on the CV. Chances are that your RRC has a -prefix B- axel which won't take the biggest CV joints, but will still take heavier duty ones.

I wouldn't fit extra thick KAM axel cases without looking at the chassis and the chassis mounts. Or to look at it the other way, I wouldn't waste my time on thick axel cases without throwing the standard rubber donut radious arm bushes and the arms that go with them away. Better the axel bends than the chassis Very Happy

Slidey diff gaurd helps no end. I run a belly ski as well for the same reason.

Portals are rubbish Shocked
Nah, portals are great, but the sort that are reliable with disk brakes are waaay more cash than you would shove under a rangy. For the amount of work you might as well take them and build a kick-ass spider or the like and leave the RRC as is Cool

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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamidris wrote:
I'd say standard axel cases and fill them with Ashcroft shafts and air lockers. You'll still need over £3k.
Not sure what would be best on the CV. Chances are that your RRC has a -prefix B- axel which won't take the biggest CV joints, but will still take heavier duty ones.

I wouldn't fit extra thick KAM axel cases without looking at the chassis and the chassis mounts. Or to look at it the other way, I wouldn't waste my time on thick axel cases without throwing the standard rubber donut radious arm bushes and the arms that go with them away. Better the axel bends than the chassis Very Happy

Slidey diff gaurd helps no end. I run a belly ski as well for the same reason.

Portals are rubbish Shocked
Nah, portals are great, but the sort that are reliable with disk brakes are waaay more cash than you would shove under a rangy. For the amount of work you might as well take them and build a kick-ass spider or the like and leave the RRC as is Cool


Thanks for the reply, im wanting to build the best off roader i can possible but keeping itbroad legal - aiming quite high haha!

Just thought portals may help but suppose would be easier to sit air lockers and shafts etc, any other ideas on how to keep up with some of these off road buggy things but keeping mine road legal
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discosteve
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HD drive line ie shafts locker ect then some bigger wheels/tyres to give yourself a bit more ground clearance an maybe a little suspension lift

That's how I would do it mate plus put a winch on the rear as its easier to pull out of the sticky stuff than pull yourself further into it

Steve

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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had plans for

Ashcroft shafts
twin air lockers
3" suspension lift
2" bodylift
Some ( alot ) arch trimming
37-40 " tyres been looking at 38.5 but its only 1.5 " away from 40 ooooo
Front rear and possibly centre winch
Supercharge the 3.9 v8

Anything else to compete with the best off roaders out there? Was also looking at taking it to iceland and do some winch challenges . ?. ?
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bigbuggy
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unsure if trolling or not
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spannerman69
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigbuggy wrote:
unsure if trolling or not


maybe ,
on the off chance not , you would be well advised to do some thing with the prop shafts as well , ive seen custom props twist like candy canes .

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen the best of RR/portal conversions using Volvo axles and I reckon it cost £30k!!

Portals are amazing but for my cash I'd go for ashcroft internals in newer axles!

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teamidris
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping up with offroad buggies is an impossible task with a road legal motor. If it hasn't got to be driven home it can be driven really hard. Bigbuggy is going to do stuff that is just barking, and so are other folk in the same class Laughing
Mainly this will include taking a run-up to an impossible off road situation. If it doesn't workout, they'll go again, as you can't rip the wing skin off twice Wink

Build it though, it'll still be fun. Then when it's body is wrecked in couple of years, buggy frame it Cool

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bigbuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if the Op is serious about what his aims are, then he needs to get away from landrover axles,

as it stands ashcroft stuff can be broken on 35's. its just borderline on 37's

its gonna be a case of building custom axles like spider9's etc or using a dana 60 or 14bolt especially if you want to run 40's & drive it hard,

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2009 Land Rover 110 CSW

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

40s? I would buy a trailer and something to tow it with first.
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bigbuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buggy on 40's will fit on an ifor CT177 trailer easy & can be towed behind a D2 /D3
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N.R.G97
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1966 Land Rover Hybrid

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.killeraxles.com/bolt_on_portale_e.html
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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for all the replys so far, i understand it may so like im a dreamer but as i love my off roading it's on my to do list in life is to have one of the best street legal off roaders in the country as im willing to do quite alot to do it.

I think im going to keep the RR axles but put ashcroft internals in it along with twin air lockers then just put skid plates under the diffs.

I udnerstand that no road legal truck will be able to match a buggy or similar but as long as i can hold m own against them id be happy

Tyres will be somewehre around like 37-40 mark ideally was going for 38.5 but its only 1.5" off of 40's so that would tempt me
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teamidris
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolt on portal ends for my truck Cool

There was nearly a puddle Embarassed

Need money Laughing


It's worth pointing out that 37's and 40's don't make it more capable off road if you have a doubt in your mind about reliability. You can have 235, 265 and 285 at 33" tyre diameter with Ashcroft internals, with an official warranty that says you can drive it hard.
e.g. I can back my truck out of ditches backward on full lock with ease. I couldn't do it before because I knew I'd blow something and end a days offroading.

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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive done 33's before, they were great but think i need to go abit bigger,

Im aware tgat bigger tyres 35+ have down sides, more chance of breakages, reduced turning circle, higher CoG etc but the added ground clearance helps alot!
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bigbuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wowyswittowedtwuck wrote:
thanks for all the replys so far, i understand it may so like im a dreamer but as i love my off roading it's on my to do list in life is to have one of the best street legal off roaders in the country as im willing to do quite alot to do it.

I think im going to keep the RR axles but put ashcroft internals in it along with twin air lockers then just put skid plates under the diffs.

I udnerstand that no road legal truck will be able to match a buggy or similar but as long as i can hold m own against them id be happy

Tyres will be somewehre around like 37-40 mark ideally was going for 38.5 but its only 1.5" off of 40's so that would tempt me


you are also aware that having 38.5's or 40's would rule you put from competing at a large selection of events in the uk?

or are you just intending to build a big truck for using at play days?

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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No im not aware of that!

I know for the winch challenges you get your 2 classes and over 38.5 is in one and under is in another not sure what 38.5 goes into.

Whats the max size for alot of events in the UK? As this is where i plan on doing most of them, fancy going to iceland one day so would like to hope it can stsy with the arctic boys
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bigbuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

id say almost 90% of events in the Uk run to a 37" size limit,

there are some exceptions but there are more events limited than not,

i currently run 37" sticky treps on my buggy



unfortunatley without building another car thats the limit we are at to get maximum steering lock & also keep the vehicle narrow enough with good steering geometry which is alot more important than people think,

where abouts in the country are you as this would give an indication where you are likely to compete, some events like those held by CSW in devon/cornwall area feature alot of woodland which will destroy a full bodied vehicle no matter which way you sugar coat it,

i used to compete with a full bodied 90 but having to replace the front wings after every event gets boring realllllly fast

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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That buggy looks really nice!!

Im near edinburgh in scotland but quite fancied doing a few down south we only have a couple of very good sites up here,

Yea true about the full bodied truck, the rangies are very long aswell!!

Would it maybe be doing this with something smaller
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bigbuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahhhh, im from fife originaly,

we ended up traveling down to lincolnshire, yorkshire etc as there isnt many events in scotland,

a rangie is long overall sized, but the wheelbase is good, my buggy is 102" wheelbase & if i built another id go to 106 ish,

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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im in Dalgety Bay in fife, so may know it - possibly now due to all the " radiation " rubbish thats going on,

So what you think the best bet is for the rangie then ? Its all ready got a good wheel base , am i correct saying its 100" ? so fit ashcroft internals to the axles, and go front and rear lockers, front and rear winches then 37's for rubber ?

Should be a not to bad truck ?

Looking at my first event being one of the winch challenges which would be in 2014 gives me time to do what i need to to keep up with some of the machines that perform in the winch challenges through out the UK
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teamidris
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The maximum tyre diameter shall be 915mm (36 inches)." for LRS winch challenge. Assuming you want all-entry to a UK event? I think they are the smallest.
I havn't found 87" wheel base too short, but if you have 100" you may as well stick with it.

What I did to my RRC; Throw the body, shorten the chassis by 14", narrow the bulkhead, fit the old gearbox tunnel, make a full roll cage, rear-rad, make a series one landy body out of this and that, fit a hydraulic engine pto for the winch, go auto, Xeng handbrake, fit lockers and HD shafts, fiddle brakes and dry sump the engine. Kept me busy for 20 years Laughing

What winches you thinkin' then?

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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamidris wrote:
"The maximum tyre diameter shall be 915mm (36 inches)." for LRS winch challenge. Assuming you want all-entry to a UK event? I think they are the smallest.
I havn't found 87" wheel base too short, but if you have 100" you may as well stick with it.

What I did to my RRC; Throw the body, shorten the chassis by 14", narrow the bulkhead, fit the old gearbox tunnel, make a full roll cage, rear-rad, make a series one landy body out of this and that, fit a hydraulic engine pto for the winch, go auto, Xeng handbrake, fit lockers and HD shafts, fiddle brakes and dry sump the engine. Kept me busy for 20 years Laughing

What winches you thinkin' then?


Yeah bet it did haha!!

I wasnt aware that there was a max tyre size, to be honedt ive not read up on the diffrent trials to much yet want to get the truck built first,.

See now that i know the limits 36" id be tempted to do all tgis work on a smaller , lighter truck. Ive got an old 1995 vitara that i stripped i could rebuild that back up with 35's - had 33's before but wiuld be a lot lighter and smaller than a rangie. Oooh my minds turning now
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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was looking at wsrn for the front and a superwinch for the back.

However ive seen a einch with 17500lbs pulling power but cant remember where doh!!
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bigbuggy
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

was your vitara blue?

i used to work in dalgety bay so know it well,

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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigbuggy wrote:
was your vitara blue?

i used to work in dalgety bay so know it well,


No red, all my off roaders , quads etc have been red. Nice and bright Razz .

Thing is its a nice place but limited to off road sites like you said. Drumclog 50 miles or so away. Lamancha just over the bridge but apparantly SEPA have been in and your now nit aloud to usr the water valleys so think its struggling a bit now. Not sure how true this is but was reading bout ut the other day. Looks some really good sites down south though!
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scrunt
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you the same person that was a member here before 'bigredzook'
with the Red Vit & then the Quad?

There are regular club events if you are interested with Tayside 4x4 Club,
Edzell Off Road club, or BORDC.

You could get ready for next years event.
http://www.scotiawinchcc.org.uk

george
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wowyswittowedtwuck
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No but ive seen the vit beforr. Think it got broken up. I just got my quad recently as spares or repairs and fixed it up with a paint job, definatly fancy the events something ive never done but look really good thanks for the info.
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teamidris
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the vit for for trialing, it steers very well. I nearly grabbed one but I havn't the space Sad
If you went mad on the vit it could have later 24spline landy axels + ashcroft lockers and ought to be okay with standard shafts and CV's?

I say that, but I wondered what a vit would be like with the independant underparts of say a mitsubishi? Live axel is very squirely by comparison on hill climbs.

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