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ScubaDan Just got MTs
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Odometer: 179 Location: East Sussesx
1998 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject: What expedition 4x4?
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Hey all, I lover my vit but it just isn't big enough for my future needs.
I am looking to start venturing out of the UK and into places like Norway, Sweden and Russia for the snow and later on maybe even further afield.
Sleeping space may have to come into consideration as sleeping outside in a tent may not be an option.
I am thinking of buying a Defender 110 (300 tdi - as its bomb proof) as you could fit two people to sleep in the back. Although its not as good as the 90 in off roading I feel the sacrifice for space is just.
Any other 4x4s I should consider?
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject:
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Maybe reliable ones?
What's your budget? If low I'd be looking at land cruisers. If high, MAN KAT1 perhaps.
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hairyguy4 Just got MTs
Joined: 08 Oct 2010 Odometer: 136
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject:
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landcruiser 80 series job done
__________________________________ toyota kzj70
toyota hdj80
suzuki samurai |
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jamie_grieve Articulating
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Odometer: 876 Location: South Scotland
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:12 pm Post subject:
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Depends what you mean by expedition too. If you mean going to go throwing yourself at snow strapped onto one or maybe two planks and trying to stay alive dodging trees and rocks as you hurtle down mountains and retire to your warm centrally heated demisted cocoon of warmth that will be your vehicle then I'd steer you well clear of any body on chassis conventional 4x4 and suggest a 4x4 van like a Toyota Hiace 4x4. They have identical half shaft diameters to Hilux's and 'Cruisers, proper 4x4 with low range but a lot more space inside and just a much more practical proposition in many ways. A Hiace with snow chains will take you on as many public roads as a 'proper' 4x4. They are the vehicle of choice in developing countries and out number 'Cruisers 100 : 1
If your plan is to go snow bashing then I'd ask how much you want to risk your only means of transport and who's going to pull you out when you get stuck?
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:34 pm Post subject:
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Problem with vans is departure angle, and also sand ingress in hot climates.
There's an excellent book http://www.travelvans.co.uk/
I highly recommend it to any one planning on making an expedition vehicle. I've no affiliation, just someone who's bought the book.
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jamie_grieve Articulating
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Odometer: 876 Location: South Scotland
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:43 pm Post subject:
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To be fair, the departure angle of a van is not something that's going to stop you going anywhere you wouldn't want to risk your vehicle and sand ingress would be the same as any 4x4 due to the shape of the rear of it. It's also unlikely to be a problem in the Nordic countries where the OP's talking about going.
That link has some good pictures of a sprinter van.
I personally believe the days of the off roader type expedition vehicle are numbered as wherever people are there are cars now and sufficient roads and bridges to get them there. You can travel the length and breadth of the African Continent (for example) on asphalt now and even dirt roads present no problems to most 2wd cars.
If you're going to remote areas in Russia then get a Russian truck, don't mess about with things with small wheels like a van or Toyota unless you really know where you're going. You'll end up tagging along with similar vehicles in a mini convoy when you get to the sticky bits anyway.
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject:
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Well having bought a unimog to convert to an expedition camper, and it will be my 4th conversion I'd have to disagree.
There's a place for 4x4 panel vans, but for independent travel in hostile locations then ground clearance approach and departure and a chassis able to carry high loads offroad are very important. Being able to mitigate being stuck is preferable to recovery, and being able to self recover is also very important.
As well as IMO the single most important thing on an expedition vehicle. A permanent made bed, preferably with seperate seating if there is more than one person travelling.
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Nightbar Difflock Royalty
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Odometer: 20799 Location: In a state of anticipation...
1999 Land Rover Defender
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject:
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Sounds like deciding on exactly what terrain you will be travelling on and how long you will be in the vehicle doing it each time and then working back to the vehicle spec to do it.
There are a million different answers, most of which are down to personal preference, but ultimately it will be based on the question of where, what and for how long you want to do stuff in the vehicle.
__________________________________ The ex-Difflock Ambassador to Naples, Sir Nightbar DCJC DFS and 2 bars.
Plant a tree for the Difflock 3 |
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:10 am Post subject:
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That book is worth it's weight.
Everything from tyre choice to which toilet.
Research is key though. Anyone can throw a tent in the back of a mondeo and travel the world. There's more to the world than what's within 500m of Tarmac.
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jamie_grieve Articulating
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Odometer: 876 Location: South Scotland
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:14 am Post subject:
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Quote: | Well having bought a unimog to convert to an expedition camper, and it will be my 4th conversion I'd have to disagree. |
Cool, what were the other vehicles? Where did you go and how long were you there?
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Toseland Mud Obsessed
Joined: 25 Oct 2011 Odometer: 3209 Location: cardiff
1999 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:30 am Post subject:
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hairyguy4 wrote: | landcruiser 80 series job done |
yeah, 2nd...
__________________________________ I live by 2 sayings:
1. The beatings will continue until morale improves
2. Pain is just Weakness leaving the body..
The feeling you get when you first smash your shaft out, is one you will never forget.. especially if you do it in front of 10 guys. |
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jamie_grieve Articulating
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Odometer: 876 Location: South Scotland
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:19 am Post subject:
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80 series:
Bearing in mind we're not talking about outback touring in Oz here.
Why would you take a vehicle not less than 16 years old with a high mileage on an expedition to somewhere there are no spare parts available?
How would you sleep in it and keep all the gear?
Fair enough, they get a great name in Oz and they are a good car but don't be under any illusions about how reliable an old Toyota 4x4 is over any other car when you start taking them away from the molly coddling 99% of them enjoy on tar seal and smooth dirt roads.
You start using them on properly bad roads and very quickly things go wrong. An 80 series is heavy and thirsty which means carrying fuel is essential and it's a pain in the ass to recover when everything around you is lighter.
We have to start replacing liners on the 6 cylinder engines at 120 -150,000 Km's,
Transfer box bearings are a lottery when they go, a front prop is good for 50,000K's, diffs, pinion seals and bearings, cracked axle tubes, you name it, it happens. It just doesn't happen on tar seal in countries with good internet.
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jamie_grieve Articulating
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Odometer: 876 Location: South Scotland
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:49 am Post subject:
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Quote: | If high, MAN KAT1 perhaps. |
You have seriously got to be kidding!!
Have you ever used or maintained one?
First hates that come to mind...
The hitch on the front does not close properly so you cant use straps on it.
You cant open the doors without hitting the mirrors (MK 1)
the electrical systems were a disaster on them
the fuel tanks are designed to be nearly impossible to fill without putting dirt in them
Spares are non existent.
It was designed by a committee that had never seen or driven a truck before judging by the stupid coil spring suspension with puny torque rods and bespoke A frame joints that are impossible to do anything with when they need changed.
There is no balancing effect on the rear suspension on the 6x6 or 8x8 so you get heavy and light wheels compounded by a rigid chassis meaning excessive wheel slip and tyre damage.
The coil spring suspension which makes for unstable lurching off road makes for an unstable ride on it when carrying a load with a high centre of gravity because it doesn't have the roll stiffness heavy leaf spring packs have.
The transmission is a bespoke ZF unit with a torque convertor and a clutch which is a disaster.
The actuator on the clutch controlling the throttle is very troublesome.
There's no low range and the transmission gets seriously hot in the mountains.
The electrical wiring to the diff locks and transfer case is weak and troublesome.
I have a biased opinion of them to be fair as I hate them for being impossible to work on compared to anything normal. The location of the engine... access for servicing, location of service components.......
The rigid back bone does make for an easy camper conversion.
Nah mate stick to the Unimogs and look after the bearings in the portal housings and you won't go far wrong.
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ScubaDan Just got MTs
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Odometer: 179 Location: East Sussesx
1998 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:54 am Post subject:
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The land cruiser does look like a comfier ride than the defender.
How is it on terms of ground clearance?
I am a Outdoor Activity Instructor by trade, so accessing places off the track would be useful as it would be a work vehicle on the side too.
Main thing I am looking at is reliability and space for kit and if the 4x4 is big enough then possibility of it being able to sleep two people is a bonus.
Things im looking to possible haul around;
Canoe (on the roof)
Kayaks (on the roof)
Mountain Bikes
Huge amounts of climbing kit, tool kit, tents, packs, food and water.
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jamie_grieve Articulating
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Odometer: 876 Location: South Scotland
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:09 am Post subject:
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I'd say if you're going to stick to formed tracks which have been driven before I wouldn't get too worried about off road ability and ground clearance.
As a guide, nearly every heavy 4x4 that would suit will have the same size tyre and similar ground clearance under the diffs which is what will stop you in rutted tracks.
I'f you're thinking about just driving cross country to get somewhere making your own road then you really need to rethink what type of vehicle and what you need to take before finding out if you even can in the relevant country.
I'd go in a completely unprepared vehicle on a short mission with all your kit and see what works for you.
The Toyota is better built and stronger than the Defender, the Defender sacrifices reliability for capability. If you had to casevac an injured climber or boatie down a boulder strewn river bed you'd do better in a Defender even though the 80 series has lockers. The Defender is easy to arrange for camping and touring but also more likely to leave you stranded or miss the ferry in the first place.
I still say a 4x4 van for your particular application.
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ScubaDan Just got MTs
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Odometer: 179 Location: East Sussesx
1998 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:32 am Post subject:
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Im not sure about having a 4x4 van. Would rather stick with a car.
I do like the look of the land cruiser and it would probably be better on the fuel consumption.
I will keep on looking and saving up. Prob just sell my vit and use it towards the new car.
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scotty wong Just got MTs
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Odometer: 472 Location: kent
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:14 am Post subject:
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A defender in sub zero conditions!!! Sod that! Your get snow ingress let alone sand.
The russian forward control or light trucks were sold all over the eastern block in millions,there will be spares they will run on dirty fuel and are simple.
It sounds like you need two motors as any serious expedition motor is a bit much to go to work in everyday.
__________________________________ if the truth can be told so as to understood it will be believed. jeep xj |
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scrunt Articulating
Joined: 11 Jul 2012 Odometer: 985 Location: Tayside.
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jamie_grieve Articulating
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Odometer: 876 Location: South Scotland
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject:
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Georges photo.
Yup, that's the one!
Quote: | Im not sure about having a 4x4 van. Would rather stick with a car. |
Why is that? By making that decision you really give up a lot of practicality and don't really gain a lot.
Quote: | I do like the look of the land cruiser and it would probably be better on the fuel consumption. |
No arguing they look good but why would a heavier car with a bigger engine have better fuel consumption? They get between 17 and 24l/100k's depending on load and ground conditions. This isn't great but any car loaded up isn't going to be good. There's no point in comparing magazine figures for fuel consumption to a heavily laden vehicle.
Have fun searching.
I think the biggest and best modification that can be done to an expedition vehicle is to install a ferry ticket in the glove box and get going and forget about all the crap you think you might or might not need.
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scrunt Articulating
Joined: 11 Jul 2012 Odometer: 985 Location: Tayside.
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rob-o Winch Assistant
Joined: 11 Dec 2009 Odometer: 66 Location: farnham
1988 Suzuki SJ413
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:12 pm Post subject:
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In my experience of driving in russia and kazakhstan you ought to be driving what the locals drive. So that's either a 80 series land cruiser or a lada niva (what I drive off road now after seeing how they are treated and seeing what they are capable of.) landrovers are easy to maintain here but in the middle of Siberia every man on the edge of any street can work on a niva with his eyes closed. Although its true this is becoming less of an issue these days. Personally I'd go to France and but buy a lhd diesel niva but if you need more space it's got to be the land cruiser. (that said I did manage to track down pajero prop uj's in Volgograd without too much hassle)
Rob
__________________________________ Skids, if carried out correctly, are not just for kids. |
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ScubaDan Just got MTs
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Odometer: 179 Location: East Sussesx
1998 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:09 pm Post subject:
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I will prob just go for a drive in my current Vit then and see how I do.
I live onsite at my work most of the year but when I go to do "moonlighting" with private clients, having a beastly looking machine would be best, give the wow factor
I know a van would be the best for touring/sleeping in but id rather spend the cash on a single vehicle and id rather have off road capability over a comfortable ride.
I'll just have to keep thinking about. I'll save for the time being, work on my Vit and if I need something more then I can make a choice from all the info here.
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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:35 am Post subject:
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Why is it that ANY time someone mentions Defenders as Expedition vehicles the same boring old comments come out.
There are many reasons why you might not choose a 110 but reliability is NOT one of them. As someone above pointed out, any 16+year old vehicle is going to have issues but there is no other vehicle out there with an aftermarket restoration/exped prep market than the 110.
Cold - for travelling or sleeping? Sleeping -get the right kind of bedding, travelling - restore the heater or fit an eberspacher.
There are lots of options out there but getting a Niva because you might to go to Russia once might not be the best idea.
I've met people who've done what you're planning on Honda C90 step-through scooters, on bicycles and on foot so anything is possible, just don't rule out the 110 because one or two people who dislike them slag them off!
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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ScubaDan Just got MTs
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Odometer: 179 Location: East Sussesx
1998 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:55 am Post subject:
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Keeping warm at night isnt an issue for me, I have spent the night in tents or in a snow hole inside a bivi bag.
I have the proper kit.
My Sleeping Bag
My Tent
+ Thermarest.
Usually I get too warm at night!
A forum is a great way to get lots of information and makes it easier to see any problems with a product but you do get Brand Loyalty or a single bad experience that will change someones opinion of a product forever.
Driving to Russia is the most extreme and unlikely case, tbh it's cheaper for two people to fly to St. Peterburg or to Moscow with all my kit onboard.
Norway as you can take the ferry or go via Denmark, works out cheaper for me to drive.
If I decided to go to warmer climates like Morocco it would defiantly be en-convoy of several 4x4s.
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scrunt Articulating
Joined: 11 Jul 2012 Odometer: 985 Location: Tayside.
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:04 am Post subject:
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This is my vehicle of choice for this years camping travels.
LWB Mitsi.
I have all the cold weather sleeping bags and necessary camping equipment, but once sleeping inside the vehicle,
Wind deflectors on the windows are a big help for ventilation & reducing condensation..
(not fitted mine yet, but going on the front and rear.)
'Much Cheapness' & you just need to find one with a sound engine or one thats had the work done.
Much more comfortable than the 110, JIMO.
(A 110 rear door is a PITA (literally) at times, Middle of the night etc.)
http://forum.difflock.com/userpix/17551_Zook__Mitsi_010_1.jpg
http://forum.difflock.com/userpix/17551_Zook__Mitsi_015_1.jpg
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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:11 am Post subject:
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If you are doing Scaninavia, I'd do it one of 2 ways:
Motorhome/Exped vehicle and stop where and when you like either wild camping or in campsites
Motorbike: great views, traffic doesn't hold you up and you can stay in "Hytte" huts at campsites for much cheapness, warmth and convenience.
Loved my month's touring there and want to go back en-famille one day.
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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ed Mud Obsessed
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject:
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Panel van over "proper" 4x4.
Having jsut got back from the Alps (Tignes/Les Arcs area) there was not a single LR/LC type expedition. Plentyo f 4x4 but they were council/police etc work horses. However, there where plenty of panel van campers - mostly 2x4 but a few rather nice 4x4 ie Merc Sprinter 4x4 -- inc a very nice one that had been driven from Russia. One of the best I've ever seen.
__________________________________ So let's not talk of love and flowers
And things that don't explode |
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:10 pm Post subject:
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jamie_grieve wrote: | Quote: | If high, MAN KAT1 perhaps. |
You have seriously got to be kidding!!
Have you ever used or maintained one? |
Strangely went to have a look at 3 this weekend.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
First hates that come to mind...
The hitch on the front does not close properly so you cant use straps on it.
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Humm all three I went to look at didn't have a hitch at the front, they have sodding great D shackles through the front of the chassis.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
You cant open the doors without hitting the mirrors (MK 1)
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I can see how this <might> be an issue. The ones I looked at didn't suffer this problem though, the arm was far enough back to miss the door when opened. Don't know what model they were though.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
the electrical systems were a disaster on them
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Couldn't possibly comment, although that's a hell of a fuse board behind the driver.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
the fuel tanks are designed to be nearly impossible to fill without putting dirt in them
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Err, exactly the same filler neck as all 4 of my mogs, and any other truck I've seen.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
Spares are non existent.
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Spares are very common and easy to get hold of as far as I can tell. Might be expensive for some of the bits though. Same can be said for any military truck.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
It was designed by a committee that had never seen or driven a truck before judging by the stupid coil spring suspension with puny torque rods and bespoke A frame joints that are impossible to do anything with when they need changed.
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Why is coil sprung suspension stupid? MOST modern vehicles have been using is for decades now.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
There is no balancing effect on the rear suspension on the 6x6 or 8x8 so you get heavy and light wheels compounded by a rigid chassis meaning excessive wheel slip and tyre damage.
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Not driven one so can't comment, but the suspension, in principle just appears to be a normal arrangement. Doesn't look like it would have the articulation of a bogie, but still some heafty looking travel in there.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
The coil spring suspension which makes for unstable lurching off road makes for an unstable ride on it when carrying a load with a high centre of gravity because it doesn't have the roll stiffness heavy leaf spring packs have.
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So apparently you just don't like coil springs.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
The transmission is a bespoke ZF unit with a torque convertor and a clutch which is a disaster.
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The clutch looks like a brilliant idea, say as the hydrostatic arrangement on the big mogs used for towing 600t plus. The torque converter spins up when pulling off to limit the shock loading going through the gearbox, and also to remove clutch slip. Once the gearbox is up to speed the torque converter locks off and uses the clutch. Very little clutch wear and the ability to pull huge loads. This arrangement has been used for 30 years in mogs, and no one seems to comment on it's unreliability.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
The actuator on the clutch controlling the throttle is very troublesome.
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I take it that there's a TPS of some description which controls the torque converter lock out?
jamie_grieve wrote: |
There's no low range and the transmission gets seriously hot in the mountains.
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But it's a straight 8 gearbox. Why do you need low range?
jamie_grieve wrote: |
The electrical wiring to the diff locks and transfer case is weak and troublesome.
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Again, can see what you mean about the wiring.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
I have a biased opinion of them to be fair as I hate them for being impossible to work on compared to anything normal.
The location of the engine... access for servicing, location of service components.......
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Fold the cab forward? Pretty straight forward and very quick to do.
Unless you've not worked on the X-USAF ones and have only worked on the EU ones with the non folding cab, the air cooled engine, and the ones prone to a lot of problems?
jamie_grieve wrote: |
The rigid back bone does make for an easy camper conversion.
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Yes, but that hump on the transmission does appear to be a bit of a pain, the floor would need working around that, or the bed lifting 6 inches.
jamie_grieve wrote: |
Nah mate stick to the Unimogs and look after the bearings in the portal housings and you won't go far wrong. |
Would love to be able to afford to upgrade to a KAT1 at some point in the future. They are simple old trucks, a lot of them, but simple non the less. Seems that we've been talking about 2 different trucks, from what I understand the EU ones are a bit of a mare, but the USAF cruise missile ones are basically a different truck.
Now, THAT's what I can an overland expedition camper.
Getting back to a choice of truck, a Bedford MK can be had for less money than a landcruiser. Down grading them to 7.5 tonne is a simple paperwork exerciser and they make a pretty damn good camper.
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jamie_grieve Articulating
Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Odometer: 876 Location: South Scotland
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject:
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Sounds like you were looking at a completely different truck, I was only refering to MAN KAT 1 which is something that could reasonably be afforded by a normal human on a reasonable income. I didn't see any point in discussing modern variants. There is an OAF equivalent as used by the Austrian military which applies also.
Hate coil springs..? Are you on drugs..?
Same kind of unfounded statement. We're talking about a heavy truck, not a light 4x4 here. Suspension requirements are completely different. 99% of the worlds off highway trucks use some form of balancing leaf spring for a reason. Unimogs are different as you know but also have very low carrying capacity for the size of truck.
No hitch because it got deleted for being crap?
Sounds like filler necks are changed too. On MAN KAT they are on top of the tanks under the tread plate so dirt from your feet can fall in the tank.
Quote: | Spares are very common and easy to get hold of as far as I can tell. |
Ummmm, you were talking to the bloke selling them...?
I've been repairing them for a living. I order my own parts.
Quote: | but the suspension, in principle just appears to be a normal arrangement. | ...? Have you ever even once looked under a heavy truck....? I'm not talking Unimogs here, I mean heavy trucks. Please show me all the trucks out there using this arrangement?
The clutch looks like a brilliant idea, say as the hydrostatic arrangement on the big mogs used for towing 600t plus. The torque converter spins up when pulling off to limit the shock loading going through the gearbox, and also to remove clutch slip. Once the gearbox is up to speed the torque converter locks off and uses the clutch. Very little clutch wear and the ability to pull huge loads. This arrangement has been used for 30 years in mogs, and no one seems to comment on it's unreliability.
I understand the idea perfectly well thanks. If you had bothered to want to learn then you would have understood that the throttle is kept at idle until the clutch is fully raised for the reasons you state. The problem is that this is bellow the stall threshold of the torque convertor. The lowest gear is not low enough (because there's no low range!!!!!) to move off. The DAF 2300 of the same vintage used the same system to great effect using lower gears to allow the torque convertor to multiply torqe properly. The torque convertor doesn't really lock in practice, it just gets hot.
Oh yeah, transfer gears, yes 8 gears, how many reverse? Drive one with a heavy load and trailer in the mountains of Afghanistan or similar and then post your comments based on your experience.
Fold the cab forward..? We were talking about MAN KAT 1 here, the cab doesn't fold or tilt. It's a box section construction bolted solidly to a rigid chassis frame with all the engine ancillaries connected to it. It can be removed with a crane but not tilted at all.
I'm not trying to get in a ******* match here and apologies for going on a bit but stop trying to tell me anything about a truck you've never owned, operated or even driven off highway in a hostile environment.
I agree whole heartedly on the Bedford. I had an old MJ for years. It never missed a beat. Good simple effective thing. They truly have stood the test of time. I got rid of it partly because the cab didn't tilt either!!
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:10 pm Post subject:
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As I said, sounds like we're talking about the two different models of KAT1's.
You, I'm guessing have worked on the EU air cooled ones with the fixed cabs?
What about the water cooled USAF ones (rad is on a prop from the front of the engine, and that MASSIVE transmission tunnel through the cab).
These water cooled ones have tilting cabs for ease of access.
As for coil sprung trucks. Tatra for a start, and nearly all the trucks you'll see in the Dakar.
For an expedition camper you don't need high load capacity. What's a camper body going to be on a full length chassis. 5 tonnes maybe?
And, yes I was talking dream machines, the ones I went to have a look at for a friend who's planning on a camper on one, 30K for the standard length KAT1 and for the LWB (recovery truck) 45K. The LWB has about a 6M wheel base, with a bed length of around 7m with a 2m over hang from the front rear wheel, so with the 60% rule it would be possible to go to about 8 - 9 M body on the back. That would be a massive camper. Serious money indeed, but go and have a look at UNICAT's website. There's massive money in those things.
It seems that the OP isn't looking for an overland type expedition vehicle though, which is shame since the heavy iron is sooo much more fun than the little stuff
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