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samurai 1.3 standard carb running rich - please help!

 
 
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theboy
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Odometer: 7




PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: samurai 1.3 standard carb running rich - please help! Reply with quote

Hi,

Im pretty new to this forum and its seems a wealth of knowledge! Im hoping I can become a useful member of the forum too!

I have done some searches but im struggling to find the answer to the symptoms i have. I know the best thing to do would be to bin the standard carb (1.3 sammy 1991) but I dont want to go down that route yet.

When it starts its lumpy with a low tick-over but does settle down when warm

The main issue is its running very rich (some black smoke out of the back when you rev it) and you stink of unburnt fuel when you drive it.

1.Can I adjust the mixture? If so which screw is it?
2.Could it be the choke sticking & how do I fix it?
3.Cold start up its lumpy and needs to be revved to get it running smooth ( it doesn't hold a higher tick over initially like i thought it should do on choke)

Any help you can give i would be really grateful chaps,

cheers, Tom
Smile
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zukmeista
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Odometer: 176
Location: WHANGAREI,N.Z



PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like it could be a choke problem, I assume it has an auto choke? Could just remove it for now, underneath hat on top of carby there will be a plate in the primary throat, you can just remove that. (Dont drop the screws Laughing ) And maybe put an SU on it at some stage.
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Joe b
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Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Odometer: 661
Location: norfolk



PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

id second that, remove choke for now but if it carries on being a pain. dont bother with fixing it tbh these are one of the worst carbs out there, everyone i know has had them go wrong.. definatly su, webber or nikki instead would be better
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theboy
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info guys, yes its an auto choke, can you give me a bit more detail on removing the choke assembly as I'm still a little unsure how to go about it!

Also how does it run from cold with no choke mechanism?

Yeah I'm planning in the long term to change the carb, I just want to have some fun at the moment without stinking of fuel!

Thanks again, Tom
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Joe b
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Joined: 01 Nov 2011
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Location: norfolk



PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youll face cold start problems without the choke especially this time of year. probably just have to warm it up carefully with the throttle instead..
basically take the air bend off the top off the carb and youll see a flappy plate inside the throat of the carb. have a look around it see how its fitted then remove as necessary, itll be a doddle im sure just dont drop anything down the carb lol and then get an su or something Smile
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theboy
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks, I'm assuming it's the large flap at the top of the arb assembly. When the engine is cold should this closed position? I.e horizontal?

I guess I've got nothing to loose by removing it and seeing what happens, can I leave the rest of the choke mechanism in place on the carb?

Thanks again. Tom Smile
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Joe b
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Joined: 01 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah thats the kiddy, and yeah just lose the flap and itll be gone altogether
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oshimon
Mooch Master


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Odometer: 6786
Location: Jerusalem. Israel



PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be too quick to start faffing about with the butterfly's etc. as it may not be the auto choke at all.

The AISIN carbs (there are at least four different versions for the SJ/Sammy) are extremely good carbs, the problem is that they are complex (way too many internal channels and emission control/vacuum gubbins) so when they do go wrong it can be a pain to find the problem and fix it.
When they are running right then they are the best carb for NA zooks as far as power/fuel efficiency are concerned.

First read here for the names of all the bits (7th post down)

Unscrew the PCV valve and give it a good blast with carb medic untill all the gunks out - there is a spring and ball bearing inside which need to be clean -



Clean everything outside the carb with carb medic then WD40 (springs, actuator arms etc. etc.).
Give them all a 'twiddle' (technical term) to see they are moving, attached etc.

Check that the water pipes are circulating water properly (both are heating up) -



Now check that the auto choke is opening properly.



Whip the air intake cover off the top of the carb to check that the choke is closed, start it up and look to see if it opens slowly as the temp increases.
The butterfly for the choke is the top big one on the primary speed venturi, the one closest to the inlet manifold/engine. left hand one if looking towards the front of the zook.

If it doesn't move or open fully then check the linkages, springs (the auto choke spring should be sloppy and should never be reset unless you want to open the door to a world of pain and frustration) and vacuum pipe and jet to the opener (the one from the base of the carb to the choke opener unit - if your carb has it then the other one from the BVSV on the manifold is less important).
If they are all OK then it's probably the thermal wax unit so bin the carb as a new unit costs more than an SU.............

Mixture 'n' stuff -



Warm engine up to regular running temp.
Check choke is open and no lights, radio etc. are on.
Use the idle screw to get the revs to ~900.
Then turn the mixture screw until you get the highest revs.
Screwing it in (right) makes it leaner and out, richer.

Go back and adjust the idle screw until the revs drop back to ~900 and then increase the revs to maximum again using the mixture screw.

Wash, rinse, repeat until there is no rev change from turning the mixture screw slightly.

If you cant get it within range (too high or too low/stalling) then adjust the fast idle screw (this is basically the same as pressing or lifting off the loud peddle a fraction) as needed ("in" increases revs, "out" decreases iirc).

If you need good emissions for the MOT then best to get a carb place (or someone with a tester) to do the final set up.

Simon 'or throw it at the neighbours dog' Owen.

__________________________________
There are some days when even my lucky underpants can't help.....

For Ian's sake, desperately trying to keep up at the back.
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Joe b
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Joined: 01 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hope ya got heated rear window keep your hands warm Smile
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oshimon
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Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Odometer: 6786
Location: Jerusalem. Israel



PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe b wrote:
hope ya got heated rear window keep your hands warm Smile


Eh?
Wut................ I don't even............

Why would I need a heated rear window to keep my hands warm Joe?

My carb works fine.........

Simon 'lolling indeed' Owen.

__________________________________
There are some days when even my lucky underpants can't help.....

For Ian's sake, desperately trying to keep up at the back.
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theboy
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info, I will have a go at cleaning/ setting up the carb.

Below is the side of my carb which seems to be a little different.

Can you confirm i have identified it correctly? Also what does the fast idle do as mine seems to idle very low when cold but settles to around 900 when warm.

Also how do i adjust this mixture screw as it seems to have a small cap on that spins is this an anti tamper cap? there is also no screw head on the end of it?

thanks


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8703dave
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Joined: 11 Jan 2013
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1995 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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oshimon
Mooch Master


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Odometer: 6786
Location: Jerusalem. Israel



PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, that's spot on!

Mixture screw -

It is an anti-tamper thing.
You can usually squeeze the cap with a pair of pliers/mole grips to squish it onto the screw which prevents it from spinning around.
Or buy a "special tool" from Suzuki. Probably for stupid money and totally unnecessary.

Fast idle -

The fast idle does the same thing as if you press on (or lay off) the accelerator peddle a little bit.
It pushes (or releases) the cam follower lever which increases (or decreases) the position of the throttle butterfly (bottom butterfly in the primary speed side) via the throttle arm.
The choke works in a similar way as, as it opens, it pushes down on the cam returning the primary throttle butterfly to normal.

Carb medic is just a brand name of a carb cleaner.
Don't get it in your eyes as it burns like buggery!!
And blinds you for ages afterwards!!
Having had a face full of the stuff on more than one occasion I now don't even look at a can of it without wearing safety glasses.
Waaaaay worse than tear gas/mace.
Seriously, it's the worst pain I've ever had.......
And I've been shot as well........

8703dave - welcome to the forum! Trolling on your second post is somewhat frowned upon........................

Simon 'serious about the carb spray though' Owen.

__________________________________
There are some days when even my lucky underpants can't help.....

For Ian's sake, desperately trying to keep up at the back.
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8703dave
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Joined: 11 Jan 2013
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1995 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any one that read my last post it was only ment as a joke I know Tom very well and it was only ment as a bit of banter. Sorry if I offended.
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theboy
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Simon that's great! You are a wealth of knowledge on these carbs!

Dave- I know u well enough to know it's only banter!

Cheers

Tom
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ha511
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Joined: 30 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Sj carb driving me crazy.. Reply with quote

So, I had the following symptoms:

Start up = fine
Idle = fine
Initial driving = fine
Once warm = not fine, would stall at traffic lights or every time I came to a halt. Revs would drop to zero and car would stall. Only way to prevent this was to keep foot on the gas.


Removed carb, took apart and cleaned. Refitted.

Startup = fine
Revs would be be at around 2000
Choke butterfly opens
Revs drop to 1500
I can't get the idle below that..


I've tried backing the fast idle screw out and have now actually removed it fully so that I only have 1 idle screw to play with. Still no joy.


If I push the throttle cable cam back hard to closed position then I can get the idle down to around 1000.
I thought the throttle return spring might be stretched so have fitted a much stronger spring (I can feel the strength of it even through the accelerator pedal)
I still seem to be able to push the cam closed a bit more (maybe 0.5mm) and the revs drop but it won't close to this level on it's own without me pushing hard on the cable cam to close it.


1) Is it ok to ditch the fast idle screw and just work on the long idle screw instead of both?
2) I can get the revs to drop by blocking off the tube that runs from the top of the rocker cover to the airfilter housing - is this normal that the revs should fall? I can feel a vacuum on my hand when I cover the end of the tube.
3) I have the auto choke version of the aisan carb (wax actuator) - seems to work as choke butterfly opens fine.


It now idles very steadily when warm but just too fast and I haven't yet taken it for a drive to see if the stalling issue is gone.
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mike328
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Sj carb driving me crazy.. Reply with quote

ha511 wrote:
Revs drop to 1500
I can't get the idle below that...

ha511 wrote:
I can get the revs to drop by blocking off the tube that runs from the top of the rocker cover to the airfilter housing - is this normal that the revs should fall? I can feel a vacuum on my hand when I cover the end of the tube.


High & seemingly adjustable idle would usually be unwanted air getting in through or in after the throttle body...but I wouldn't expect vacuum on engine breather, so possibly related??

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The deep meaning behind Tetris: If you try to fit in you disappear.
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