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Landcruiser/Fourtrak Hybrid
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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jem Smile

I've emailed Challenge Southwest and explained the plans for the cage and have had a response but they're quite busy prepping for the de-cider trophy this weekend so no answer as of yet.

Two other related problems I want to sort out are the charging and cooling.

The standard alternator is something pathetic like 40amp, so isn't ideal for the winch and in particular, the electric fan.

I've bought a 130amp disco 2 V8 alternator which is a beast, but now I need to package in the engine bay it somehow...
So the plan is something like this LJ70 has


Luckily to make things a bit easier I have a spare Fourtrak engine out of 1 of the donors so I can see what mountings there are to work with.


I'm also thinking of upgrading the radiator as well, what with the bigger turbo, tweaked pump, 'my driving style' and and an Intercooler soon it's a bit too much for the standard radiator. I was hoping the old one was just blocked but after buying a re-cored one although it is better it's still not spot on like I want it to be.

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Madfish
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Odometer: 305
Location: Feck knows! Mostly S.Wales!


1994 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a place near me that will re-core a standard rad with a bigger core, we use them in the 'traks that we've bought second hand. I think you can get a new auzzie spec rad for about £400 new (50mm core iirc), we had theses fitted in the 'traks we bought from new, and one other that we had at the time.

Changed two standard ones for re-cored ones a couple of weeks ago.

Let me know if you want the details for the place that we use.

You gonna look at strengthening/replacing the cross member while its cut down that much?

Think you should be able to have the cage bolted on, hoping so as thats what the cage on my project truck is . Have a look at the msa blue book regs (here)

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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff, thanks for that Madfish.

If the truck was stock I think I would go with that option but seeing as the rad I'm using has an adapter bracket already (due to the winch) I think I might try to shoe horn something else in first (an lj70 one might do the trick)

Also I'm trying to save the pennies for a rear air locker, as I think with the flex of the 3 link suspension it will transform the truck if it had a locker... or maybe two one day Twisted Evil

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Youtube: FourtrakRich
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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, twin alternator done.
So firstly I took off the original cast alternator mount and used a milling machine to take off 5mm each side

Then I cut out two pieces of 5mm plate to go at each to produce the original width, with pipe between so the original alternator can bolt up tight. There are m6 bolts through the cast piece to stop the bracket rotating.

The adjuster is cut down standard alternator adjuster and looks like this
The adjuster bolt is a fine thread metric (m10?) bolt
If I'm honest I'm not 100% happy though as the top mounting on the bottom alternator looks like I might not be the strongest for bouncing around off-road. The threaded rod is stainless steel though so I'll see how it goes, I might beef it up a bit one day.
Oh, and the belt is an A31 (31") vapormatic one that I got for cheap enough from an agricultural engineers.
The disco alternator had a poly-V pulley on it, this v belt Pulley is just from a random alternator, possibly vitara.

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Youtube: FourtrakRich
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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it would be handy to have a vice to, so I made this out of some old PTO shaft.



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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been shopping as well, tube for the roll cage, and osb, plywood, hardboard and sheet insulation for the next ideo of making it a bit of a camper... Nothing to be worried about, just a false floor In the back and putting a bit of insulation in so it's a bit nicer to sleep in. Not going to be doing any overland trips or anything, but it should be good for greenlaning weekends and beats a tent.

Did my first punch hunt at the weekend which was good fun, although I was pretty apprehensive at first. I didn't really know who or what was going and as the trucks started arriving I was thinking more and more that it was a bad idea, as all but one were roll caged scuffle trucks without a straight body panel between them Embarassed i think 4x4 scuffles might only be a Devon thing, so if you don't know then look up Riphay scuffle on YouTube.....

Soon we all drove into the woods to see what our trucks could do, and to be honest, at first my truck couldn't do much! 'A technical difficulty' meant that 4wd wasn't working. Soon enough I had 4wd again and I was cooking on gas Twisted Evil the truck performed amazingly, I managed to get all 10 punches



3 link articulation Cool

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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after minimal body damage but some close encounters with objects and rollovers, it's time to build a rollcage to protect me and the truck!

It's going to bolt on with m16 bolts, with these welded in the ends of the hoops.
Front hoop


Tube angle locator


Front and main hoops

Rear hoop

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JemAndes
Just got MTs


Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Odometer: 446
Location: 10th region (lakes region) Chile


1998 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man you've done quite a bit. And you did a great job too! Looking forward to seeing it finished.
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fingers92
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Odometer: 266
Location: hindhead



PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice work looking good Cool i like 2nd alternator design simple but effective
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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Safari snorkel now on



Tack welding and bolting the cage together bit by bit


Rear wrap-around bits to protect the lights when I reverse into trees

Wanted to make a bit of protection for the snorkel top as well so I found this bit of pipe (other dairy farmers out there will recognise what it's from). The right angle bit was at about 70 degrees though, "no problem, I'll put it in the vice" doh! cracked the vice. Made in England, at the land rover factory?

Here's the cage all made

Sprayed in primer

And two coats of black

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Youtube: FourtrakRich
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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gave it a wash&wax Laughing



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JemAndes
Just got MTs


Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Odometer: 446
Location: 10th region (lakes region) Chile


1998 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Landcruiser/Fourtrak Hybrid Reply with quote

So much work done so quickly. Very impressive! Very cool looking!
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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeh i'm really happy with how it's turned out too Very Happy
i've been putting in LOADS of workshop hours recently but it's been worth it.
I'm now running the LJ70 Radiator, which has almost twice as thicker core than the Fourtrak one... and it's still gettting warm.

I know the electric fan would be more efficient with a shroud because it would be pulling air through the whole of the rad fins rather than a circle in the middle but surely this wouldn't affect it too much?

Water pump belt is tight, thermostat removed, the system has had rad flush and coolant replaced with 50/50 antifreeze to coolant.
snorkel provides cool air intake and the bigger turbo is only producing 12 PSI of boost at the moment.
Reconditioned fourtrak rad and now bigger lj70 rad and still it gets warm.

The only thing i can think off apart from no fan shroud is a worn out water pump, which will have to be my next change to change.

In other news... Lights!
£39.99 Delivered. from powerfulUK's ebay store
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380857684366?_trksid=...TRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


also bought an LED Light bar from eBay £107
China's finest so it's currently on a boat and won't be here for a while though Rolling Eyes
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380977444009?_trksid=...TRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

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zukmeista
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Odometer: 176
Location: WHANGAREI,N.Z



PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fan might be your problem as the standard engine driven ones move a lot more air than an electric one can.
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JemAndes
Just got MTs


Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Odometer: 446
Location: 10th region (lakes region) Chile


1998 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zukmeista wrote:
The fan might be your problem as the standard engine driven ones move a lot more air than an electric one can.


I'm with Zuknmeista. A guy I know changed from pulley fan to electric, and in the end, he had to find a dual electric fan to do the work. Plus, he had to use one off some industrial vehicle because the "commuter" grade electric fan didn't work good enough. Just remember, typically the electric fans that I've seen have been on street cars, or used on trucks/SUV's as a secondary. Not the primary. I may be worth looking at your fan options.

4Trak looks Great though! There are few being built right now it seems. I just got started working on mine again. You can see my progress here. It's nothing like yours, but I'm still doing something to it.http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=68812[/url]
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RL12 wrote:


I know the electric fan would be more efficient with a shroud because it would be pulling air through the whole of the rad fins rather than a circle in the middle but surely this wouldn't affect it too much?



Not really - the fan can only shift the amount of air of it's diameter, a shroud will only reduce the amount of flow through the centre of the radiator (due to the extra air it'll be pulling from the corners) AND allow the area of radiator outside the fan diameter to become clogged with mud thus decreasing the efficiency of the radiator.

Providing the pitch of the blades are the same, an electric fan will always be more efficient than a viscous type simply because you can control the electric one far better plus you can have more than one to cover the whole radiator
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Orangev81
Just got MTs


Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Odometer: 438
Location: Everywhere



PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I changed the 300tdi engine I did not put the shroud back on and am getting much better cooling.
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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3372
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My kenlow fan is close to 15 inch and draws 20amp. Even with a very good cowl it can't always keep up, so I have two spal 11" fans pushing air onto the rad via a thermostat. That's the kind of set up I needed to be as good/better than the old engine driven viscous fan.

By going thicker on the rad the air flow is reduced. You gain surface area, but the surface is now less effective. Honestly, for good cooling, getting all the fins to do some work is the key Very Happy

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fingers92
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Odometer: 266
Location: hindhead



PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

have you got a aftermarket temp gauge or just standard one as mine was getting bit on hot side on standard gauge and when fitted a tim gauge it gets upto about 92deg c winch not that hot really and its temp sender in same place as standard one

the light bar should be good i have little 24'' one and puts out alot of light, were you putting your above wind screen Question
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JemAndes
Just got MTs


Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Odometer: 446
Location: 10th region (lakes region) Chile


1998 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fingers92 wrote:
have you got a aftermarket temp gauge or just standard one as mine was getting bit on hot side on standard gauge and when fitted a tim gauge it gets upto about 92deg c winch not that hot really and its temp sender in same place as standard one

the light bar should be good i have little 24'' one and puts out alot of light, were you putting your above wind screen Question


From what I've seen of the light bars, the light spreads everywhere. It's not very directed. Do they not glare of the windscreen when on the roof/top? Just curious.

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fingers92
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Odometer: 266
Location: hindhead



PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah they do just make alot of light and it does light the bonnet up but i have not found glare from it any problem, my bonnets not very shiney tho

this dip on my trak with clear headlights from inside


full beam


full beam with led bar
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JemAndes
Just got MTs


Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Odometer: 446
Location: 10th region (lakes region) Chile


1998 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fingers92 wrote:
yeah they do just make alot of light and it does light the bonnet up but i have not found glare from it any problem, my bonnets not very shiney tho

this dip on my trak with clear headlights from inside


full beam


full beam with led bar


Yeah... A huge difference. Like I said, I was just curious, cause I've never used them.

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www.offroadindependence.com My Off-Road Radio Talk Show.
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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the responses guys.
So from your comments I've got a few points then:

although a shroud would draw air more evenly through the rad, this wouldn't increase the overall volume of air draw through.

The bigger rad isn't as efficient because it stays hotter for longer, because the heat can't dissipate away as easy (at the moment)

My electric fan should be used in conjunction with another fan.

Does anyone think it's worth getting a new water pump?
Compared to other components I don't really view them as a wearing item that should be periodically changed, especially as pattern parts like this never seem to last as long as the originals, but I'm worried that I've got an impeller in there with no fins or something! Embarassed

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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, current elec fan is a 16" Kenlowe with thermostat and manual On. The thermostat probe is inside the top rad pipe close to the engine stat housing.
I bought a temp probe with digital readout (page4 of this thread I think) which is on a bolt on the cylinder head to make sure I don't cook the engine, but I'm always looking at the factory temp gauge. I drive a SPAM most of the time and once it gets up to temperature the needle just sits in the midpoint all day long, no matter how you drive it, which is what I want this one to be like.

I always intended to have the four spots across the top of the windscreen but it shows how technology has changed in the last few years,as well as the price. Fingers' pics show how effective they are, with a mixture of led floodlights and led floodlights the light should be pretty well distributed.

I was thinking of getting a personalised sun strip to go across the top of the windscreen, if unwanted light into the cab is a problem then that will be the deal clencher.

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Youtube: FourtrakRich


Last edited by RL12 on Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3372
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"although a shroud would draw air more evenly through the rad, this wouldn't increase the overall volume of air draw through"

The other way around, the drag is the square of the velocity. It's much harder to shove a cube-a-second of air through a small area than the whole rad face. With a good shroud/cowl/box you would get more cooling with more air flow and the fan amps drop because it has to generate less air pressure. Plus the hot air isn't going back through the area around the fan when sitting stationary. Sucking hot air back in is a cooling reducer.
But if you are going down the road at speed the cowl can reduce the natural air flow. That's why some cars have rubber flaps on the back of the cowl to let more air through than can fit through the fan hole.

Two fans is an easy fix on a vehicle. Just throw more amps at it Cool

All water pumps aren't equal, so I'd have a sniff about to see if they are available with better blades (HD version or something). But to be fair to the job, a water pump upgrade won't be needed if you can get your rad right, unless it is a really pants one?

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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3372
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



This is how my two blowing fans sit, admittedly in the back, but it's a much bigger ask than in the front. It's the same type of thing I'd sell at work for industrial use.

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fingers92
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Odometer: 266
Location: hindhead



PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RL12 wrote:
I drive a SPAM most of the time and once it gets up to temperature the needle just sits in the midpoint all day long, no matter how you drive it, which is what I want this one to be like.


i see your point with this but alot of factory temp gauges have a dead spot or slow reaction in the middle so people don't get worried to temp going up and down all the time, as no matter what it is temp will go up and down a bit with in a range.
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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fingers92 wrote:
RL12 wrote:
I drive a SPAM most of the time and once it gets up to temperature the needle just sits in the midpoint all day long, no matter how you drive it, which is what I want this one to be like.


i see your point with this but alot of factory temp gauges have a dead spot or slow reaction in the middle so people don't get worried to temp going up and down all the time, as no matter what it is temp will go up and down a bit with in a range.


Fair enough but by that logic the fourtrak gauge shouldn't move far either, but it does? it just has lag, i.e. i'll nail it up a long hill and then when it levels out the needle will continue to rise and then fall.

thanks for that info Teamidris.
At the moment the rad is a used Landcruiser 70 one, there isn't really room room in front of the rad because its quite tight to the winch, so I may have to go back to the original re-cored fourtrak rad, and get another fan then. and more rad hoses... because I might've cut them all up to join the LJ70 rad in..

a moderate search of upgraded water pumps hasn't really returned anything, I'm tempted to change the pump for one of these from eurocarparts for good measure
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Daihatsu_Four...578ed2&000366


Milner also do a similar one which is actually quite competitively priced,£34.20 inc p&p

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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so the MOT has run out so that's going have to be sorted when I get to it.
I've also had an import duty invoice of £16 for the LED lightbar. It's marked as 'a gift with the value of £50' on the box but theirs no pulling wool over their eyes. Although I'd get charged more if they realised it cost £106.

The fuel tank is weeping a bit so I'm going to replace it as I've tried putty on it before but it's quite rusted & pitted.

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RL12
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Odometer: 297
Location: Devon/Shropshire


1987 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cooling- It's good, but it's not great (yet)
I'm now back to the re-con Fourtrak rad, no stat, Kenlowe fan sucking but now with two 9" eBay fans blowing. £10 per fan believe red, bargain


Long journey a couple of days ago and To keep it cool I had to drive at a steady 57mph for about 4 hours (I know, I can't believe I did it either).
I did have a slight brainwave though, I've not wanted to put an Intercooler on until I've sorted the cooling, as I didn't want to put more stress on the engine.
But the Intercooler would also provide a heat sink, cooling the air (obviously)
And allowing the truck to run at lower temperatures. Well thats the theory anyway.

I've changed the headlights over and added 'xenon effect bulbs' so I can now see in the dark, which is nice!
Connecting them up the night before mot day 1 connector wasn't on properly so it failed on that-apart from that it sailed through Very Happy
One thing i did have to investigate before the mot was the charge light flickering. Had a look under the bonnet to check the regulator was plugged in ok and saw the earth wire had burnt out Embarassed took the reg off to solder a new wire in and damaged it taking the cap off, not really sure how it works but I know it won't work if bend the metal tabs. Turns out the spare one I had was a Pcb reg so should be more durable. And I cleaned up the wing where it mounts to help it earth properly too.

The fuel tank always seemed to be damp so I've now replaced the tank with one I got given from kind bloke on the Fourtrak Facebook page, but I'm not sure if this one is 100% either as it seems a bit damp... May have to get a custom tank if I can't find a decent one.
Also got around to a job I'd wanted to do for a while - putting decals on the truck. A combination of stickers stuck with masking tape and photoshop
And how it actually looks now and for the near future.

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