Are you an automatic convert off road?

chicken drumstick

For years and years I've always been a fan of manual transmissions off road. More control and more precise... at least that's what I thought.

However more recently I've been off roading an automatic Jeep. I thought I'd hate it, but in truth I didn't. It worked brilliantly.

I think I'm starting to become a convert to the ways of an auto off road.

Anyone else?

TheClunk · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject:

I fell in love with Automatics since owning a Senator Auto. Have always said I would get another, but as yet I haven't.
Off road wise I am not sure. have driven both off road, but at different places so cant really draw a comparison. I should imagine Auto is better for wading though.

Vitara Nick · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject:

Always had the same idea as yourself; An auto would be no use, it will always be in the wrong gear, it will cost a fortune to run, it won't rev as much as necessary etc etc etc..

Like you, I was wrong too.

The auto boxes that most jeeps and pick-ups come with are fantastic, and I only noticed when using an auto Hilux to pull a fully loaded tri-axle trailer across bad ground. Once I seen how effortless it was, I decided to take it back into the same area without the trailer and play a bit further, as you do Razz

It performed fantastically, and has since had me wanting an auto off-roader, but for now, I'll just have to stick to a manual Vitara as they are as cheap as chips... Very Happy

oshimon · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject:

I love auto boxes off road, especially for the terrain here.

I've never owned one but have driven plenty and the only minus is the lack of engine breaking.
Disconnecting the ABS goes some way to compensating for this though, especially with disc's all round.

Give me a nice torque-y diesel engine coupled up to an ecvt gear box in the zook and i'd be has happy as a pig in poo.

Simon 'and throw in a set of portals whilst your at it' Owen.

chicken drumstick · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject:

I've read that on vehicles like a Disco II they actually have the ability to lock up the torque converter in low range, so offer very similar engine braking to a manual.

I don't know the validity of this. Or if my Jeep did something similar. All I can say is, I was surprised at how much engine braking and control it did have in low 1st. Not once did it feel like it ran away, not even when jumping straight out of it and into either a diesel or V8 manual Land Rover 90 as a direct comparison on the same off road obstacles.

I admit I've not driven an older auto Landy off road though, so I don't know how they fair.

cynic-al · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject:

I have one and really like it. Some of this depends on the type of auto box but I find left foot braking gives excellent control, its easier on the drive train as its less inclined to snatch and you can drive in or out with a which line without putting too much force on it or snatching at it. Also it can change gear on a hill without losing drive to the wheels. (which is good and bad as it sometimes does it when you don't want it to unless you think to force it to stay down before you set off)

Downsides are you can't bump start them, there is a lurch before the engine gives you braking and people think your a fairy Laughing

mrcheese · Mud Obsessed Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Odometer: 6339

I really liked my auto V8 Disco I when I had it. When laning I felt less of a need to shift into low as often. It just felt smooth with no need to pre-select a gear.

However, the lack of engine braking was an issue on a few ocassions. Left foot braking on long slippy slopes was interesting! If it is true that the Disco II torque converter is locked in low then that would be great. You adapt your driving style to what you have though.

Would I have another auto? Yes. An auto 90 would be fantastic.

Damian · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject:

I agree, my 3.0ltr TD Surf was an auto, my first auto 4x4 and it was brill... except for going down steep hills!

My favourite auto is a V8 Range Rover... they're built for an auto and are excellent off road!

simonallen · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject:

I had no choice but to use autos for a while (broken back) and I actually am a convert.

Hill climbs are better, even if you fail, you reverse back a little bit, then back in drive and theres no mad harsh pull away when trying to battle with a handbrake full of mud etc, it's just drive away nice and gentle.

The crawl ability is much better in my opinion, you have an almost infinate gear ratio.

The only down side i found was the engine breaking is not that of a manual, even locked in 1st i felt myself using the brakes a bit more than what I was comfortable with. It was suggested to me that I could use reverse gear on the steeper descents to slow it down further, and I did try it once, and then floored it at the bottom of the hill to catch up with a friend. Needless to say my teeth are now not the same shape as they were.

mudplugga · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject:

Auto all the way, the lack of engine braking can be a problem but it's outweighed by the crawl and hill climb / start abilities.

kimmo · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject: autobox

personally i love auto boxes they are bullit proof these days,wish i could say the same for the primative transfer box on my disco! of which i'm on the third one now,jamming not selecting, siezeing up etc; god you got to love land rovers!

clbarclay · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject:

I like the auto in my range rover, but the auto in the land cruiser leaves a little to be desired off road. Its not really a problem with the gear box, but as standard you can only engage the centre diff lock by putting it in low range, which also changes the shift points (ETC) for the worst.

furrywoolyhatuk · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject:

Due to a disability iv always had autos, the vit is my first 4x4 and iv been impressed. Two friends that swear by their manual discos were impressed with hill climbing abilities. You also have two hands in your wheel at all times.

GVstu · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:47 am Post subject:

Toseland · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject:

i was tempted, only put off by the lack of engine breaking.. would seem sensible, however..

given the torque lockup in top gear on the vit its not that uneconomical

Jay reKx · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject:

it annoys me intensely when people say very knowledgeably, although never having driven one "its an auto, so it'll be rubbish offroad" or something to that effect. balls.

Xpajun · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject:

The only drawback to an auto off-road is lack of engine braking, but there are far too many positives to deliberately avoid buying an auto off-roader as has been said better crawl control - hill starts - one less thing to think about - etc etc

I very often find myself in the wrong gear when trialling - with an auto that wouldn't happen and brake tapping is quite effective on down hill sections.

Currently I'm manual off-road and auto on road - I have plans for an auto safari vehicle and progression to an auto trialer may be on the cards at some point as well

Yes I guess I would be an auto convert Laughing

N.R.G97 · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject:

started out in a landy with a 4spd manual, still running that gearbox (well not the same one but a slightly modded varient...) i like the manuals, but having driven with both rangy auto's and the 1.6 honda sport in a buggy with an auto, i love auto's, along with having the ability of full slew brakes, not just fiddles, theres not much an auto cant do that a manual can. still manual in my trialer though... maybe not the next one... Smile

andyff · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject:

I'm with you guys.

I too had a cherokee auto as my first off road auto and it was ace. Much better at going up and not nearly as bad as i thought ging down. Given that most motors now have ABS (or even proper HDC) the whole "don't touch your brakes or your dead" advice of 20 years ago isn't as critical. In fact you can get too much engine braking and end up overtaking your wheels if the lack of traction and hill steepness is enough with a diesel in low first.

Nathaniel · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject:

Love 'em.

Wish they did auto Fourtraks!

Face it, how many steep descents with a manual trans have you driven without touching the brakes?

jamie_grieve · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject:

Am I the only one here against the 'Ooooh autos are wonderful' trend here? I unfortunately have been forced to drive them for work, often in really crappy places. These would range from latest model 4x4's to TS24 scrapers and 777 dumpers.
Autos, regardless of year, make and model in my humble opinion, simulate driving in deep mud on solid terrain and completely disassociate the user from the ground.

MRDIITD5 · Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject:

Autos are good off road says the chap who sold his D2 auto and bought a manual defender. The hill descent control is brilliant although the first time you use it is a good test of confidence.

cynic-al · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:11 am Post subject:

Twiss · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject:

I just like being able to go into the gear that I want to!

I find that when dangerously low on fuel I can pull the choke out a bit and tractor in 3rd or 4th on the increased idle speed. Only gets you a couple of miles further, but its got me to my house or the petrol station a few times Wink

Don't think an auto box would let you do 5-10mph in 4th Wink

cynic-al · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:02 am Post subject:

I don't think running out of petrol is a valid excuse, I mean who's stupid enough to run out of petrol... .... ... Embarassed

ScottieJ · Guest

I'm with Jamie; I just find Auto's boring both on and off road.

When it's more of a challenge it's more fun in my opinion.

Plus you need to know your vehicle better, the vehicle can't change gear for you if you pick the wrong one.

Hell I've got 20 forward ratios and 4 reverse to choose from Laughing

baxter · Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:19 am Post subject:

I'm a self-confessed auto hater. I learnt to drive in an auto Mk3 Cortina 1600 and after owning my first car, a manual 1.3 Escort - chalk and cheese. I swore never to own an auto again. And have been true to my word - other than an auto Nissan diesel van, apparently unbreakable.
Yeah, I broke both the auto and the engine within a few months and didn't even abuse it Rolling Eyes

(to be fair it was likely shagged from previous poor maintenance, but that's a extra risk you take when buying any auto)

Anyway, all that auto hate aside if I was only able to get an auto version of the 4x4 I wanted I'd still get it (with the caveat that it has enough grunt, low torque and auto would be rubbish).

Indeed 4x4ing is about the only thing an auto makes sense for in my mind - in some situations it has an advantage over manual, probably actually more situations than a manual has advantage over auto.

However, personally I'd still avoid an auto where possible because of their maintenance costs, fragility (remember I've broken a Nissan one without even any mistreatment) and primarily because they can't be tow started, or towed at all for any distance (many of them) making them too much of a risk for 4x4ing if I had the choice of a manual instead.

scrunt · Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:51 am Post subject:

It is never going to be possible then to convert a Auto Hater,
but can i suggest that,

You really need to go out and drive a modern Automatic gearbox like a DSG, S-Shift or any Twin Clutch Automatic (or semi-auto as some call them)
because i could not see how you could find fault with something that can be used fully automatic or as a manual if you wish,
just there is no clutch for the driver to operate.

If you want to move your left foot up and down in a straight line for a form of exercise, its probably worth getting a pushbike and moving both up and down.

My first road legal car to do lessons in and the car i first had after passing my test was a 1970 Mk2 Cortina Deluxe Auto,
(column change)
I lost a leg at 17 & every single vehicle since has been a CVT, Auto, Semi Auto, Auto Clutch or Robotised Auto.
Either Factory built autos or converted to automatics to suit driving with only one foot.
That includes 4x4'.

'Fragile', well thats just not right in any way or form.
Wrongly Maintained or Abused can be possible, but other than that, its pretty rare for Automatics to be problematic.
Lets make a few exeptions there, Daf-Volvo & then Volvo 343 CVT that needed correctly set, (then were really good to me & fun in the snow)

Renault 21 with 5 coils in the box that was a nightmare (but then worked fine after several attempts to get right)
& Ford Durashift fitted to Demonstrator Transits that Ford thought they had scrapped all of and only launched the Up-graded model.

Only 4 automatic vehicles that i have owned in 35 years have had Gearbox problems and they were bought cheaply because of known Gearbox Problems and fixed cheaply.
Apart from a Ford Transit Durashift that had lots spent trying to get right before needing a new gearbox.

**thats the thing taking out and replacing an Autobox is not Rocket Science or even someting that takes much time or expense, Auto gearboxes last longer than the vehicles they were in, and are plentyful at Breakers Yards, and cheap.

Really i would suggest going out and trying a vehicle with a Modern DSG Gearbox or even a Subaru XV with a CVT.

george

muddyman · Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject:

Auto's for me all the way on road off road.

ivorbiggin · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject:

Maintenance. wise ive replaced more clutches and DMF flywheels than i have auto boxes, Quoted for a Mondeo diesel clutch with DMF earlier in the week at £450, it had 90k on the clock. Seen auto boxes go to 250k without problems thats equal to about 3 clutch changes.

People forget that an auto can be driven like a manual just that theres no clutch, most box's usually have D then 2 then 1.
Put the selector in 1 and it will hold it in first gear for as long as you want then you ease your foot off of the gas and put it into 2 it then goes up a gear, same again and put it into D then it goes into 3rd, put the selector back in 2 and it will drop back into second. Modern auto boxes now have 4 or 5 gears

If your wanting to carry out a fast overtake, floor the gas pedal and the kickdown comes in, theres no drop in engine rpm as there is when you have to depress the clutch and wiggle the gearshift about.

Nothing quite like an auto when you get stuck in a 10 mile queue on a motorway inching forward at 5 mph, or driving through town in start stop traffic. No aching left leg cos your on and off the clutch pedal all the time.

Alas the Maverano is Manual, why? because it came along at the right price at the right time, and id love to replace it with an auto, if i want to go somewhere in comfort i use my trusty old Merc 190E auto, 21 years old and on the same gearbox