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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: Removing Panhard
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It's looking like I might be sourcing a Mk2 shogun axle with difflock to fit my Mk1. Now as the Mk1 is a leafer and the Mk2 a coiler I have a choice of fitting the Mk2 axle either as a leaf mounted or fit it with coils but I don't like the panhard rod.
I'm pretty certain that I can modify the mounting to be able to remove the panhard rod, but what I'd like to know is if any of you have done it or tried it and failed
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mudplugga
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Odometer: 2798
Location: Shropshire mostly, and Mid Wales
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:49 pm Post subject:
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If you fit the coils it will need the panhard rod, or something else like a watts linkage, to maintain sideways location. Leaf springs generally have 'enough' location to not need a link of some kind, but coils need something.
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"Roof, doors, wheels. It's the way I drive." |
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:40 am Post subject:
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triangulated 4 link,double triangulated 4 link and 3 link with a A FRAME like a landrover wont need a panard rod with coils
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http://www.bloodredoffroad.com/
Angry parrot fabrications,check me out on Facebook |
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:11 am Post subject:
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| mudplugga wrote: | | If you fit the coils it will need the panhard rod, or something else like a watts linkage, to maintain sideways location. Leaf springs generally have 'enough' location to not need a link of some kind, but coils need something. |
Hi, yes I was aware of the fact that I needed something to maintain sideways movement - the panhard is ok I suppose for on road applications but pushes the axle too much off centre when you want a lot of articulation off-road - after a research, the Watts Linkage is far better but still moves the axle off centre at the extremes of axle travel.
Thanks for your input - made me aware of something different 
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:15 am Post subject:
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| parrotveasey81 wrote: | | triangulated 4 link,double triangulated 4 link and 3 link with a A FRAME like a landrover wont need a panard rod with coils |
Thanks parrot - Names - the Trianulated 4 link set-up is somewhat similar to what I had in mind, your naming of it gives me something to research - happy now.... for a bit  
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clbarclay
Off-Road Guru
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Odometer: 1779
Location: Worcesterhire
1987 Land Rover Range Rover
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:41 am Post subject:
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The panhard rod causing the axle to move sideways when articulating can be an advantage if the bodywork is close. With a triangulated 4 link setup the centre of the axle stays very close to central when articulating, but this causes the tyres move inwards. With a panhard rod the the riasued tyre doesn't move inwards as much (the dropped tyre moves in a lot more instead) which can make better use of the limited space in some wheel arches.
I had a similar problem with the rear suspension of a range rover with the A frame centrally locating the axle. By increasing the articulation, I managed to get the tyres rubbing on the chassis spring mounts.
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The Lord helps them as helps them selves
and the Lord help them caught helping there selves. |
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mudplugga
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Odometer: 2798
Location: Shropshire mostly, and Mid Wales
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject:
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A watts linkage won't move the axle sideways at all, that's why they are used on some race cars where precision location is needed.
To be honest, a panhard rod is fine off road if it's mounted level with the axle in the normal level ride height position, when you're bouncing around the little bit of sideways movement from the arc of the rod isn't going to be noticed. Obviously the longer the panhard rod is the less of an arc it makes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8cJCqWkfgk
On my old trialer I made an A frame for a coiled back end and that was easy enough and worked well, but on my new trialer I used a panhard rod and it's no problem at all.
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http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337
"Roof, doors, wheels. It's the way I drive." |
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject:
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I was referring to this diagram about the sideways movement:
As you can see there is sideways movement at the extremes but probably wouldn't affect racecars
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject:
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| Xpajun wrote: | I was referring to this diagram about the sideways movement:
As you can see there is sideways movement at the extremes but probably wouldn't affect racecars |
did you see the pic on the right of the ford ranger ev???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt's_linkage
we need rockwatt here  as iirc he looked into watt's linkage for zero 
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http://www.bloodredoffroad.com/
Angry parrot fabrications,check me out on Facebook |
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject:
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| parrotveasey81 wrote: | | Xpajun wrote: | I was referring to this diagram about the sideways movement:
As you can see there is sideways movement at the extremes but probably wouldn't affect racecars |
did you see the pic on the right of the ford ranger ev???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt's_linkage
we need rockwatt here as iirc he looked into watt's linkage for zero |
Actually I hadn't but I have now and I'm thinking "but that's a leafer" now getting confused LOL
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mudplugga
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Odometer: 2798
Location: Shropshire mostly, and Mid Wales
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject:
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| Xpajun wrote: | I was referring to this diagram about the sideways movement:
As you can see there is sideways movement at the extremes but probably wouldn't affect racecars |
Yes, at the extremes there is sideways movement. But for all practical purposes the watts linkage will control sideways movement to nothing.
For an off roader articulation from the center point is more useful than equal / horizontal movement of the axle. It's unlikely a 4x4 rear axle will ever see the up and down travel at the center of the axle that would make the sideways movement at the extremes a problem.
A company called Matkins used to produce a replacement Jeep chassis with watss linkages front and rear, the clever bit was they mounted them horizontally, which overcame the usual reason for not using them - which is the same as panhard rods - one end of the link has to be mounted low down. But on my trialer my rear panhard is on a drop bracket behind the axle which when I made it I thought would be a ground anchor, but it isn't. I don't think it's ever hit the ground.
The panhard rod is clear in this picture ( ignore the meager articulation, this was in the 'development' stage; it's much better now ) and you can see how it follows the axle because I mounted the one end low - at normal ride height. It's had a huge amount of stick over the last 5 or 6 years, and it's been no problem. I really don't notice the small amount of sideways movement at all.
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http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337
"Roof, doors, wheels. It's the way I drive." |
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