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Alfa V6 + R380 + LJ70 into SJ
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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are observant you might have already seen this arrangement being tested on Jerry’s Ultra4 truck at KOW. That wasn’t part of the plan for the weekend, but I had taken the axle to the event for discussion. An issue on Saturday resulted in my parts being transferred Saturday night as best we could not having any shims and without restricting the stroke of the 8” steer ram.



Since then the system has been used on this truck again – brilliant result, winning the recent DeCider.
A few more of these will appear soon on some well respected trucks.
Will let these run for a while, see if there are any problems and if they are ok I’ll look at making more.

About the steer ram. Here I created more work for myself. It’s 63mm bore 40mm rod diameter. I went for metric because seal kits are easy to obtain in UK / Europe from any hydraulics supplier and a spare rod / piston is also a simple and cheap item to make as a spare.

It didn’t cost much in materials to make the ram but perhaps I should have bought one, it would have been a big time saver, it’s just that I’m not yet convinced Hydraulic Steering is something that must be imported from USA.

One critical thing is the steering valve. There are dozens of variations on these.
If the Rep has done his job right the Steering Valve or “orbital” as some call it should be the correct "open centre, load reactive, non-load sensing" unit and I’ve gone with 120cc per Rev displacement. In other words, a direct equivalent to the Eaton valve that PSC supply.
It’s not branded Danfoss or Eaton but is claimed to be the same thing and should allow the wheels to “return to centre” through the steering geometry forces in the normal way. I guess this won’t be confirmed until it’s tested though.

Chromoly clevis ends home made. A number of set ups required.


Ally Cylinder Clamps, tricky to hold.



Rod ends (where used) are reasonably substantial for a lightish truck at 7/8” in 4130 and teflon lined. The matching 7/8” UNF high tensile bolts are becoming a pain to find in UK.





What I don’t yet know is if the existing Alfa power steering pump has adequate flow so will see what happens. At the moment that’s a neat installation that I’d rather not change.

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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next job was to mount the front axle and this has been finally positioned based upon retaining a standard Patrol front prop.

These props require a much larger output flange (ex 120mm dia bar) on the LT230 transfer box, which given a centre lathe was an easy fix.







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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite drawing up suspension on CAD there were still some unforeseen issues upon articulation requiring more clearance on the front chassis legs.

I decided to reshape the front of chassis legs to solve the problem.



The material removed was replaced with something a bit special and the area will get additional support from the shock mounting hoops that span this part of the chassis.

This sheet at £400 would be nearer £40 in mild steel.



It’s a Moly plate around 3 times the strength of mild steel and will be used for all chassis and axle brackets, trusses, winch trays etc.
At 5mm thick it’s around the same strength as 15mm mild steel plate, so long as the appropriate and equally expensive flux cored MIG wire is used.
Another thing with this material that ticks all the boxes, unlike a structural Carbon plate it's okay to fold it on a brake press (minimum 5mm internal radius).
The OS chassis leg also needed some clearance for easier alternator removal.



Last edited by nj111 on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here the coilovers and triple bypass are mounted in the right places but only held there by whatever bits of box section were lying around. Same applies to the link rods which are bodged together here in tube. They will all be 2” 7075 Grade Ally

Notice how it’s almost mid engined!








Here’s why those chassis legs were trimmed back




Now that it all cycles this will all be cut off and made properly in the previously mentioned material.
Same with the axle tabs which are just rough cut MS plate at the moment.

Next need to do the back 4 link in the same manner. Expecting that to be easier!

And the styling?
That is mainly decided and will be kept undercover till later, but as it’s called AlfaZuk and there’s not been much Zuk to see recently we thought we might correct that.
So here’s a small clue as to the way it’s heading




So there you go there may have been no update here for a while but I've been busy
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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and this has had a weigh in Engine / Gbox Transfer box lump not too bad at 348kg


The dry sump maybe helped keep the Bonnet height sensible at 52". With 40" tyres, 14" travel , around 22" chassis to ground clearance working against that figure.
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jeremy
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Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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Location: Lydd Kentshire



PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing work and clever thinking. Keep it up, Excellent build.
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Nissan patrol, Jimny.
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big_patrol
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see an update Nick keep up the great work.
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Gavlad
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Joined: 14 May 2009
Odometer: 17
Location: Wirral


1994 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked
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Bonne vivanche
Gavlad
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TJ_in_Dubai
Just got MTs


Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Odometer: 371
Location: Dubai, UAE


1997 Jeep Wrangler

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simply AWESOME!
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Stal1878
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Odometer: 3320
Location: Somerset


1990 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not checked this for a while so had a lot of reading to do.
I really cannot believe the amount of work you have put into this and the skill at pretty much every task you have.
Amazed you made your own pulley for the oil pump like that Shocked

Also kudos on having your own self propelled crane Laughing

Looking forward to more updates(hopefully soon)!
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Stal1878
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Odometer: 3320
Location: Somerset


1990 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!

Also just noticed you only live an hour away from me!
If you ever need a floor sweeper, let me know, would be a privilege to see your shop.
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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops where did a year go, I’ve completely failed with a 2016 update, now this has exceeded 100,000 views it’s about time…. although the Mrs says it’s the same 10 people that keep looking at this.

Next I started looking at the back axle, pulled the half shafts out to increase the wheel stud size from M12 to 5/8 UNF like I did at the front. This was an easy enough job on the small Kearns horizontal borer. Wouldn’t fancy having a go by hand as the studs must be drilled and tapped dead square into the flanges for there to be any chance of the wheel going on.









Could not purchase suitable wheel nuts in 5/8 UNF (The Indian made tractor ones are appalling) so made them from hex bar and got Metal Mickey in Hereford to make them shiny. I discovered 24mm A/F is the max hex size they can be or the socket O/D will foul drive flange on front axle. I did them 25mm to start with, got them plated, found this out, so back on the mill to remove 0.5mm off each flat, got them plated again. That just the way it goes sometimes.



Another Gotcha - Racelines as sold to fit Nissan Y61 are actually too small in the bore - they go on but not quite fully home, they need boring out to a dead 110mm dia. (They come in at 108mm).
I also found this out the hard way and had to remove all the tyres to mod the wheels.
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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rear axle then became a project of it’s own because once again I was sidetracked into finding a solution to some of the unforseen issues a Y61 rear end presents.

Briefly, in Europe Patrols come with a vacuum operated factory rear locker and that’s often converted to operate on compressed air.
Nice and easy to do just that. But as tyre sizes have increased to 37” and larger it’s common for the engagement ring to fail.

Here it is disengaged


And engaged



And here’s a damaged one.




Most have had problems with this part in competition use and the replacement parts from Nissan are around £300.

Decided upon an ARB, this time model RD135 is required, with the same upgraded Spidertrax locking ring that’s going into the front.

This is the Spidertrax engagement ring. It looks pretty much the same as the ARB, I guess the material spec is higher.
Wants to be for £200.

Not liking too much the way all of these ARB bevel gears have cast teeth, I was expecting machined.




But there’s an issue, ARB being Aussie made I guess are produced primarily for their own market and Patrols down under are all LSD.
Unfortunately for us Europeans the LSD Patrol has different length half shafts. The N/S is 12mm longer than ours and the O/S 5mm shorter.

Y61 factory locker is not plain bore.



But there is a clear line of sight through the middle of the ARB so the extra 5mm length on the O/S can be accommodated.



Whilst messing with diffs I made my version of a diff holding fixture from parts in the scrap bin.



Worked so well I had it plated.

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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyhow, back to the point, some have used the incorrect N/S shaft and got away with it , but spline engagement will be only about 18mm and should be around 30mm. Some have had the splines twist on the ends.
Rather than try to source the rare LSD shaft I decided to see how tricky it would be to modify the axle tubes to suit European shafts. In the event of shaft failure this makes sourcing spares so much easier.

Other than chopping the correct amount off the end of the tube the main issue is alignment. Obviously the flange needs to go back on both concentrically with the diff bore and square to the axle tube. Any misalignment errors here would scrap the axle casing.

I chose to use the lathe to machine and realign because here we have a headstock , tailstock and fixed steady all in perfect alignment. My 60 inch Colchester Mastiff lathe is only just long enough, the tailstock is partially overhanging the bed.


With the axle chucked on it’s machined flange at one end and supported by a rotating centre at the other the axle was running true in the lathe, but ofcourse it needed parting off to length so the tailstock needed to be removed.
The 90mm diameter axle tube is not at all round and can’t be skimmed true (even though it has 6mm wall thickness it would leave it far too thin).
To get over this a split steel ring was welded around the axle tube and turned to form an accurately aligned reference datum about 100mm diameter.
The fixed steady picked up on this surface, so that the tailstock support could then be removed and the axle tube parted off to length.



At this stage it occurred to me that I may as well alter both sides of the axle to solve another problem.
This is the small detail of the diff being offset to the N/S rather than the O/S to suit an LT230 transfer box.
It’s not a massive offset but it doesn’t help propshaft angles and here’s the opportunity to shift it over the best part of 3 inches.
(There is a way of achieving more but that involves using a mixture of Y61 and Y60 half shafts).

So instead of simply taking 12mm off the N/S this was extended and O/S shortened and the half shafts swapped sides.

This was a case of measuring and doing the calc’s several times because three things are happening. The diff is moving to the other side, the shafts are changing sides and an amount of compensation is taken into account to suit each side of the ARB rather than factory locker, longer on one side and shorter on the other.

Fortunately I must have worked it out ok because having completed the work there is 30mm of spline engagement on each side. (Engineers blue confirmed that).
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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here’s the N/S flange with a thick walled extension piece to be welded in.







The tailstock was used to realign the parts for tacking up, checked with Dial indicator, tacked up, checked again etc.









Another approach might be to turn the axle upside down, here’s the downside to that..
Would still need to source expensive LSD shaft to use with an ARB locker.
None of the diff mounting bolts are symmetrical, so all of the studs would be in the wrong place.
The cut outs to clear the crown wheel need mirroring to the other side and the original cut outs would now need studs in the middle of them.
Drain plug now on top, oil fill / level plug at wrong height etc.

Here’s the completed axle. Some 5mm Weldox has been added to protect the lower part of diff pan and there’s a blanking plug welded in where the vacuum locker was.





The front axle remains unchanged other than having an ARB RD136 locker with a Spidertrax engagement ring upgrade.

That is one axle sorted ready to 4 link.
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Xpajun
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Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the update it is much appreciated Very Happy Very Happy
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Stal1878
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Odometer: 3320
Location: Somerset


1990 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More awesomeness!

Need more regular updates though !!
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Clothkat
Gate Opener


Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Odometer: 19
Location: Southampton


1989 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing attention to detail.
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1989 LJ70 Never Ending Project
1989 Hi-Lux Surf Daily Drive
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TJ_in_Dubai
Just got MTs


Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Odometer: 371
Location: Dubai, UAE


1997 Jeep Wrangler

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, awesome work but any chance of more regular updates!
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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, fair comment! Although I have to say updates have to be preceded by hundreds of hours in the workshop!
Some more then.

The next part of the build was to achieve a fully cycling back end.

The rear part of the SJ chassis, behind cab, was not going to accommodate the intended suspension so was replaced and like the rest this was double skinned where necessary.
Another option would have been to go tubular.



Next I machined various shapes from 5mm weldox to form a truss for the back axle. Looks thin but remember this material has equivalent strength to 15mm Mild steel plate.



Apart from box section and shock hoops from CDS tube pretty much all that follows will be from Weldox.

Some more parts relating to back axle brackets










Diff drain plug protection

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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the axle it’s important that the connecting bolts run in line with the length of the vehicle, because there’s not enough movement in the shock lower rose joints to have them the other way for the amount of articulation we have. (Circa plus or minus 19 degrees).
But it’s more work to make the brackets and have them running this way and I guess that’s why they are often seen running the other way.

The developed shape of the bottom ones look like this.



One objective for both ends is to have the suspension mounted as far outwards as possible, especially at the axle. (To maximise roll stiffness), so here they are pushed out pretty much as far as they can go.




With the rear 4 link, I needed some place for the pair of upper link arms to fit to the chassis. In plan view they run at about 40 degrees to one another.
Ideally this should have some vertical adjustment so that anti squat can be adjusted.
The chassis legs also needed tying together at this point.
Also a substantial cross member was needed to mount the back end of the body to, potentially above this there could be a winch (if fitted behind passenger seat).

A box section / weldox combination addressed the above.

This cross member fitted tightly over the chassis, and is now welded to it.



Once again, because the weldox plates are thin every hole is bushed in EN24T to spread the load on the 9/16” Johnny joint bolts and also to slow the process of wear in bolt holes.



The box section was drilled and sleeves welded in for through bolts to attach SJ Cab.


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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the left is the cross member now in place, on the right there’s another cross member with radiused ends which will support front of shock hoop. Weldox pads above and reinforcement brackets below.





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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Needed a neat way of mounting shocks and triple bypass to the shock hoops. The shocks slope forwards at 15 degrees and outwards at 4 degrees.
This was what we ended up with. The curved top strip being coined to the required radius.




Here the solid spacers (for welding) represent shock and bypass installation widths plus a few thou clearance.
It seems sensible to have a bush that can be replaced when shock bolts start rattling around.
Throughout the vehicle a couple of different materials are being tested for this, here they are in EN24T



The above brackets were then welded to the shock hoops at an angle 4 degrees outwards which matches the lean of the shocks at ride height.
And with the expensive bits added we have




Some Weldox flanges for the first of the cross braces needed on the vehicle.



Cross brace installed


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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We’ve settled on using Johnny Joints for which there are two material choices, the forged ones but these do seem to bend or break at the end of the thread quite often.
Then there’s the billet machined ones which come in 4130 material and are twice the price.
We chose the billet machined option and luckily had bought them a while back when the exchange rate was a lot better.
These should then be fit and forget with no worry of breakage especially on a light(ish) truck.





I’ve a CAD drawing of the car as built so far and have been able to construct roughly how Anti Squat / Anti dive are looking.
There’s no real correct answer to what these figures should be but for the intended use we’ve settled on trying around 75 / 80% as a starting point.

The rear upper arms have 2 possible vertical positions at chassis end to adjust.
Even with this adjustment available it’s necessary to sacrifice some ground clearance and have the lower link arms mounted partially below the chassis.

If we have them any higher the lower arms would be set at way too steep an angle and we would end up with about 130% anti squat.
So the mounts might look a bit oddly placed but that’s why.

The weldox mounts are mounted to the side of the chassis legs but are also shaped so they are angle outwards about 5 degrees, i.e. pointing directly at the axle mounts. The outer face is tapered and the inner face parallel to chassis, this complicated machining of the inner bush for the bolt hole.

Anyhow, having done this the Johnny joints will all be sitting square to their brackets at ride height.













Cab back on and the back end cycled ok without any fouling.

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randcook
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Joined: 06 Feb 2013
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Location: Near Monmouth



PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Active Again! Reply with quote

Good to see excellent work.

Should meet up sometime?

Peter
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Eclipsed4ever
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Joined: 05 May 2012
Odometer: 190
Location: Hereford



PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to see this moving along again nicely. Cool Keep it up!
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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Odometer: 166
Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was now time to revisit the front 3 link and make it all properly.



Some of the brackets are similar to those on the rear but this time a substantial Weldox truss was needed and this ended up integral with the tower for the upper link of the 3 link and also panhard rod.

I don’t have any high tech way to plasma cut profiles quickly but I can easily make MDF templates and they worked really well to guide the plasma torch.





Double layer of 5mm weldox was used for the axle reinforcement in the necks.









This time tried a hard grade of bronze for the upper shock mount bushes.




Panhard mounts are bushed in bronze for 7/8 UNF bolts.



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nj111
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Dec 2010
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Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From this point of the build things needed to happen faster and I gained some help. Thanks to the talented Adam for his assistance, machining and fabrication skills.

There’s a few more bits to make to finish this but the front axle is starting to come together. We’ve ended up with 0.2 degrees positive camber after all that welding, which was a great relief, was expecting much worse distortion.






At around 670mm centres the panhard is as long as possible. With 14” of travel it just clears the inside of the chassis leg through articulation.





Here at full bump



And at full droop



The 3rd link at chassis end is a bit unusual and experimental. We needed to tuck in quite tightly to the chassis but without risk of failure.

Since they were at hand we selected another Volvo Artic TRE as used earlier on the steer arms.
Rated to steer a 10 Ton axle these look way stronger than a 9/16” Johnny joint bolt which I’ve noticed sometimes shear at this location.

Also, these TREs are perfectly sealed so we hope to get a long reliable service. They’re a fraction of Johnny Joint price and pretty much wherever you are in the world you’re most likely not too far from parts for Volvo trucks.

Top link at full bump, leaves just enough clearance for cover over oil pump pulley

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nj111
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Joined: 15 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything still cycles ok, but it’s not been easy to get a triple bypass set up to clear 40” tyres with 14” travel, especially having shocks mounted near the axle tube ends, and a wide chassis and good steering lock from our Ackerman corrected set up. In fact this would not be possible if the shocks were mounted sloping backwards, and is why they are set vertically on the front.

The Hydrosteer mount was kept to minimal size and is Weldox / CDS combination. The CDS tube is skinned in Weldox where it’s likely to take direct hits. The Diff pan has a good thick layer of Weldox plating where this is attached.
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nj111
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Joined: 15 Dec 2010
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Location: Forest of Dean



PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SJ cabs are a bit too short if cut off directly behind the door pillars so we retained the back section.
I made a swaged overlap and held the two layers tightly together with loads of Cleco clips whilst welding. Considering around 2 feet was removed from the cab it’s not come together too badly.



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