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Long travel indi buggy
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weldingscotty803
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Odometer: 275
Location: chesterfield


1996 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that'll be a no then?!? ah well. Keeps you busy for 10 minutes Smile
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Toseland
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Odometer: 3209
Location: cardiff


1999 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockwatt wrote:
weldingscotty803 wrote:
Could you fit them ally plates in the lathe ok or did you have to machine them on the miller?


The clue is in the pic's ! It's a big lathe that would take 16" diameter.


yeah but did you use a lathe to do those? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

__________________________________
I live by 2 sayings:
1. The beatings will continue until morale improves
2. Pain is just Weakness leaving the body..

The feeling you get when you first smash your shaft out, is one you will never forget.. especially if you do it in front of 10 guys.
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockwatt wrote:
weldingscotty803 wrote:
Could you fit them ally plates in the lathe ok or did you have to machine them on the miller?


The clue is in the pic's ! It's a big lathe that would take 16" diameter.



The factory I did my training in had a Wilson lathe - not big - about a 40' bed and perhaps a 12" centre height but it did have a gap which allowed me to turn and bore a 27" diameter 12' thick piece of steel, in fact not just one but three, it was a long job, difficult, especially truing the block in the first place.

Never saw anything like the lathe at the time or since - well worth having one.

Anyway I would say doing those plates on the mill with a rotary table like that would be far quicker than using a lathe
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xpajun wrote:

The factory I did my training in had a Wilson lathe - not big - about a 40' bed and perhaps a 12" centre height but it did have a gap which allowed me to turn and bore a 27" diameter 12' thick piece of steel, in fact not just one but three, it was a long job, difficult, especially truing the block in the first place.

Never saw anything like the lathe at the time or since - well worth having one.

Anyway I would say doing those plates on the mill with a rotary table like that would be far quicker than using a lathe

I wish I had a gap bed lathe ! Err wait a minute I have pmsl
I can get 17" in the gap and if I use the face plate it will do 6" thick
But like you say it's only one rotation on the miller so much quicker and then just chuck a drill bit in and plot the DRO and drill all 5 in one shot.
So between the mill, lathe with rear mounted slotting head and an array of rotary tables and indexers there's not much I can't do.


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weldingscotty803
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Odometer: 275
Location: chesterfield


1996 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm liking that carpet of swarf Smile
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weldingscotty803 wrote:
i'm liking that carpet of swarf Smile

Look behind the mill to the left and there is a mag sweeper ! But all the swarf on the floor is bloody alloy ain't it Confused

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weldingscotty803
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Odometer: 275
Location: chesterfield


1996 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

give the kids some gloves and tell them to clean it up. get it bagged up and weighed in. Cool
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weldingscotty803 wrote:
give the kids some gloves and tell them to clean it up. get it bagged up and weighed in. Cool


Gloves ??????

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weldingscotty803
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Odometer: 275
Location: chesterfield


1996 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

all i can say is 'cruel'

anyway, lets see some more pictures of what you've been up to. or have you been busy with something else wink wink

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Toseland
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Odometer: 3209
Location: cardiff


1999 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

having swarf splinters sticking all over your hands is a right of passage.. almost as important as the first pint at 18...
__________________________________
I live by 2 sayings:
1. The beatings will continue until morale improves
2. Pain is just Weakness leaving the body..

The feeling you get when you first smash your shaft out, is one you will never forget.. especially if you do it in front of 10 guys.
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offroad 68
Winch Assistant


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Odometer: 82
Location: staffordshire



PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never understud this "got to have nice looking welds" thing myself, If they do there job why worry!

Rockwatt, I take it that the front diff will be bolted to the front NS wishbone? if so will it not pull down or push up (depending on the rotation of the input) the front NS on acceleration esepecially with taller tyres? or is it so close to the wishbone pivot point that it will not have any amount of effect, or maybe you will be fitting some kind of torque arm to eliminate it?
Love the out of the box thinking and mostly using off the shelf parts to keep costs down, not just another same old, same old.

Will we see this in Comp Safari?
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

offroad 68 wrote:
Never understud this "got to have nice looking welds" thing myself, If they do there job why worry!

Rockwatt, I take it that the front diff will be bolted to the front NS wishbone? if so will it not pull down or push up (depending on the rotation of the input) the front NS on acceleration esepecially with taller tyres? or is it so close to the wishbone pivot point that it will not have any amount of effect, or maybe you will be fitting some kind of torque arm to eliminate it?
Love the out of the box thinking and mostly using off the shelf parts to keep costs down, not just another same old, same old.

Will we see this in Comp Safari?


No lee the diff will not be bolted directly to the lower wish bone ! It would cause body roll under acceleration and braking!
It will be on a cantilever pivot arm that will now be controlled by the upper arm very close to the inner pivot. The diff will only pivot about 30% compared to the wish bone so torque reaction will be minimal.

Will it be entered in comp safari's? Maybe!

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Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



__________________________________
Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
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Toseland
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Odometer: 3209
Location: cardiff


1999 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

more fine fabrication..

i take it that is not "soft" (ie rubber or Polyurethane mounted) to minimise movement?

or is it just not required?

__________________________________
I live by 2 sayings:
1. The beatings will continue until morale improves
2. Pain is just Weakness leaving the body..

The feeling you get when you first smash your shaft out, is one you will never forget.. especially if you do it in front of 10 guys.
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toseland wrote:
more fine fabrication..

i take it that is not "soft" (ie rubber or Polyurethane mounted) to minimise movement?

or is it just not required?

Do you mean in the second pic! They are steel dummy bushes that are there for positioning and welding! They are then replaced with polly.
Poly bushes don't like heat !

__________________________________
Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
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Toseland
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Odometer: 3209
Location: cardiff


1999 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

didnt even consider that... but yeah i can see how it would be quite difficult to weld near polyurethane lol
__________________________________
I live by 2 sayings:
1. The beatings will continue until morale improves
2. Pain is just Weakness leaving the body..

The feeling you get when you first smash your shaft out, is one you will never forget.. especially if you do it in front of 10 guys.
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After looking at the front suspension it didn't look right to me so I took some measurements and ive dropped a bit of a bol***ck with the trig !
In short the wishbones and front carier are rendered as scrap Sad
And with the amount of hours to put it right I'm afraid there's no way it's going to be done for KOV ! So that's me out Sad
So I've made the decision to take my time and do it right with no corner cutting due to time scale as this is going to be a flagship proto for possibly a new business venture.

Stay tuned as this build will be crammed with detail.

__________________________________
Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
email me for details

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boss
Just got MTs


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Odometer: 262
Location: norfolk


1995 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockwatt wrote:
After looking at the front suspension it didn't look right to me so I took some measurements and ive dropped a bit of a bol***ck with the trig !
In short the wishbones and front carier are rendered as scrap Sad
And with the amount of hours to put it right I'm afraid there's no way it's going to be done for KOV ! So that's me out Sad
So I've made the decision to take my time and do it right with no corner cutting due to time scale as this is going to be a flagship proto for possibly a new business venture.

Stay tuned as this build will be crammed with detail.


sorry to hear that, are they not salvageable atall? hope its sorted easeley for you best of luck to you in your business venture too Wink

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‎2lb club hammer?......HA! my club hammer is a cut down sledge!
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="boss"]
rockwatt wrote:

sorry to hear that, are they not salvageable atall? hope its sorted easeley for you

It will be quicker just to start again as by the time I've cut all the bearing and bush holders out I could have just turned some new ones ! And they would be a bit distorted after being welded twice.
It's not a big prob but the time scale I had was very tight and now it's impossible unless I take 2 months off work.

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arreff77
Articulating


Joined: 03 May 2009
Odometer: 992
Location: porthleven cornwall



PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockwatt wrote:

It's not a big prob but the time scale I had was very tight and now it's impossible unless I take 2 months off work.


i'm sure work would understand

Sad gutted for ya

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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as arreff77 said
gutted for ya rich
we have all been there and fully made something only to stand back and look at it and go "dam that dont look right Embarassed Crying or Very sad "
after my big last bo bo i now tack it all togeather then when im fully happy with it i then fully weld it Wink

still better to get it right first time than rush it just for kov Cool

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fourtrak craige
Articulating


Joined: 21 Mar 2012
Odometer: 863
Location: oxfordshire


1997 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow what an amazing build thread, shame about having to start again though. i guess perfection comes with time not haste.
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if i can't break it, it must be a fourtrak

for all diahatsu parts give bloodredoffroad.com a call
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's ok guys I'm not gutted ! This build needs to be spot on in every way so no compromises, and like parrot said (better to sort it now before the rest is built round it.
The point of this build for me is to design out as many common problems as possible like flex verses handling and strength verses weight and power to traction and self recovery without adding a ton of winches and batterys.
It's a shame about the kov but there will be others and I want to be properly and 100% prepared with a very competitive vehicle !
So like I said it needs to be and is going to be right with next to no compromises.

__________________________________
Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
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durdzz-suzuki-redtop
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Odometer: 2004
Location: doncaster


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockwatt wrote:
After looking at the front suspension it didn't look right to me so I took some measurements and ive dropped a bit of a bol***ck with the trig !
In short the wishbones and front carier are rendered as scrap Sad
And with the amount of hours to put it right I'm afraid there's no way it's going to be done for KOV ! So that's me out Sad
So I've made the decision to take my time and do it right with no corner cutting due to time scale as this is going to be a flagship proto for possibly a new business venture.

Stay tuned as this build will be crammed with detail.


Sad
"You can do it" take zero instead

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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

durdzz-suzuki-redtop wrote:

"You can do it" take zero instead


Zero would need a new cage ! (not msa spec) and as the cage is integrated it wouldn't be the easy !
And the suspension would need modding for more up travel ! Again not easy
But It did cross my mind Smile

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Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
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jeepmadmike
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 May 2005
Odometer: 4573
Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon



PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as my dad would always tell me when I screwed up, measure twice cut once! Wink

But I know the feeling when it goes tits up once you've spent hours on a project... Mad

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Land Rovers are the root of all evil!

Now i have gone and bought a D4!

one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy.
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeepmadmike wrote:
as my dad would always tell me when I screwed up, measure twice cut once! Wink

But I know the feeling when it goes tits up once you've spent hours on a project... Mad


I measured about 20 times and made once but the problem didn't show till it was in front of me.

**it happens Smile

__________________________________
Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
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Toseland
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Odometer: 3209
Location: cardiff


1999 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which reminds me.... are you available for a quick phonecall tomorrow rock?

forgot last week.. (vitara transfer box)..

let me know via PM or otherwise..

__________________________________
I live by 2 sayings:
1. The beatings will continue until morale improves
2. Pain is just Weakness leaving the body..

The feeling you get when you first smash your shaft out, is one you will never forget.. especially if you do it in front of 10 guys.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Toseland
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Odometer: 3209
Location: cardiff


1999 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockwatt wrote:
It's ok guys I'm not gutted ! This build needs to be spot on in every way so no compromises, and like parrot said (better to sort it now before the rest is built round it.
The point of this build for me is to design out as many common problems as possible like flex verses handling and strength verses weight and power to traction and self recovery without adding a ton of winches and batterys.
It's a shame about the kov but there will be others and I want to be properly and 100% prepared with a very competitive vehicle !
So like I said it needs to be and is going to be right with next to no compromises.


indeed, this gives you time to measure 20 times more than before.. and then refab if necessary..

might i ask what the ACTUAL problem was with them? (i assume a small systematic calculation error but what effect did it have) if that is, of course you can tell us without giving your secrets away.

__________________________________
I live by 2 sayings:
1. The beatings will continue until morale improves
2. Pain is just Weakness leaving the body..

The feeling you get when you first smash your shaft out, is one you will never forget.. especially if you do it in front of 10 guys.
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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toseland wrote:
rockwatt wrote:
It's ok guys I'm not gutted ! This build needs to be spot on in every way so no compromises, and like parrot said (better to sort it now before the rest is built round it.
The point of this build for me is to design out as many common problems as possible like flex verses handling and strength verses weight and power to traction and self recovery without adding a ton of winches and batterys.
It's a shame about the kov but there will be others and I want to be properly and 100% prepared with a very competitive vehicle !
So like I said it needs to be and is going to be right with next to no compromises.


indeed, this gives you time to measure 20 times more than before.. and then refab if necessary..

might i ask what the ACTUAL problem was with them? (i assume a small
systematic calculation error but what effect did it have) if that is, of course you can tell us without giving your secrets away.


I could tell you but then I would have to have you killed pmsl

__________________________________
Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
email me for details

Find me on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/RockwattEng
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