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1600 into sj without a conversion plate
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wheelspinner
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Odometer: 1019
Location: Burrough on the Hill ,Melton Mowbray



PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: 1600 into sj without a conversion plate Reply with quote

Me and Dunk have been discussing, on another site, whether you can do the 1600 vit engine into an SJ/sammy without a conversion plate.
Benefits : costs less (£45 to £65) and also the starter will fully engage on the flywheel, sometimes a problem with plate???
Downside :No idea how to do it

I think the idea is that the top 2 bolts just do up as normal and then you strategically drill and tap some more holes in the engine block(naff desciption i know)

Has anyone done the conversion like this, if so can i have some piccys/advice.

Steve

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"I am not calling my zook "Piglet" Becci no matter how hard you beg"
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the-offroad-armory
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Plate does not alter the position of the starter or flywheel... So the starter does fully engage with the ring gear...

Really not advised doing the conversion without the plate...

No offense, but you must be very tight if you'd rather bodge it than spend 45 quid... Rolling Eyes
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Zuk-D-Limit
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Joined: 16 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when i did my conversion it was in Spain and there a plate had to come from America so its was like 150 pounds, so i did it myself and up to today no problem!!!

I did as described, top wholes normal and bottom i just drilled new ones, nice and easy but make sure its very straight as i did mine sideways at first and nakered the clutch springs and started wasnt engaging properly. So if starter is fine gearbox and engine are well aligned.

Dunk has seen my car and how i drive it so im sure he will approve it works and doesnt break Twisted Evil

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dunk
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Joined: 01 Apr 2006
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Location: worcester



PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuk-D-Limit wrote:

Dunk has seen my car and how i drive it so im sure he will approve it works and doesnt break Twisted Evil


Shocked All i can say is he's Nuts and that poor poor zuke. Wink

Steve i will have a mooch under Herve's bonnet when he is not looking and take some pics. I do think it would be better without the conversion plate. Smile
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Sooty Zooki
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Joined: 16 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know some who swear by no adaptor plate. Most holes on Vit engine and SJ box line up. You can weld new hole onto gearbox to present to engine and voila. Benefit is a stronger mate than semi-circle plate, and obvious cost. Speak to Pete Scott (Xamatex) or Nathaniel Ham. Both have 1st hand experience of this.
Offroad Armoury - are you speaking from experience or as a vendor?

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dunk
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did see somewhere on the web about welding some bolts on. From memory they screw two bolts in from the rear of the gearbox and then weld another two bolts on the outside that to line up with the holes in the vit engine. Mine fits with the conversion plate but my starter does not sound great and i have tried twisting the box around which made it a bit better. But when the summer comes i think i am going to take it out and fit it back together without the plate.
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xamtex
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Joined: 02 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i welded 2 lugs onto the gearbox bellhousing to accept the 2 bottom bolts,i have seen it done with "J" bolts aswell.
you still need to relieve the block or fit a skinny starter doing it like this though.
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Luke Bailey
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 23 Jul 2005
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Location: Moorside Oldham Lancashire


1989 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simply all i did was bolt the top 2 bolts up drilled thru teh bottom 2 bolts shaved the heads of the bolts so it meant i didnt have to grind anything off teh gearbox or engine blocks and done... simple and 45 quid spare to go on somthing for the truck... really really easy
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sj_4x4
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Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xamtex wrote:
i welded 2 lugs onto the gearbox bellhousing to accept the 2 bottom bolts,i have seen it done with "J" bolts aswell.
you still need to relieve the block or fit a skinny starter doing it like this though.


No you don't just grind a little of the side of the starter, where it fouls on the block, two second job.

Why anyone would pay for a plate that takes no more the 5 minutes to make is beyond me !
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mr_e
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leigh from Rhino Riders done mine last month, he never uses a plate and he's done more conversions than I've had hot dinners Shocked (and I'm a chunky monkey Very Happy )
I think he does them the way Baily described.

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Nobby
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 31 Dec 2004
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1989 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why anyone would pay for a plate that takes no more the 5 minutes to make is beyond me !


some people havent got a covered area to work under or even a shed to store bits and pieces never mind the equipment to make a plate

here are some pics of Petes Scotts conversion i hope he wont mind me posting it

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suzukishrek
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Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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1995 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody tried putting the Vit engine AND gearbox into an SJ?

There's a hidden benefit to this: chop off the front output on the Vit T-case and weld it up, then the rear output goes into your existing SJ T-case - this may need moving back a bit or the engine forward. Hey presto, dual T-cases. Very Happy Since the clutch is on the way out on my 1600 truck, I might try shoving my spare Vit box in its place to see what needs "adapting" to make it fit!

Incidentally, my 1600 doesn't have an adapter plate - its tapped and drilled and it works. I think either method is valid and there will be people who swear by both so it's your truck, get on with it and do what you want as either work. Wink

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Graham.
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rhinoman
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Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Odometer: 3277
Location: Brinkworth, Wilts



PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.nitromax.nl/SAMURAI.HTM
__________________________________
2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
2006 Jimny JLX+, stock
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wheelspinner
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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Odometer: 1019
Location: Burrough on the Hill ,Melton Mowbray



PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about doing this??

Thanks to Paul Breeds for the pics....

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rhinoman
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Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wheelspinner wrote:
How about doing this??

Thanks to Paul Breeds for the pics....


The bolt looks quite tidy. The engine number looks a bit dodgy though Shocked

__________________________________
2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
2006 Jimny JLX+, stock
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wheelspinner
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Odometer: 1019
Location: Burrough on the Hill ,Melton Mowbray



PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy putting the numbers on had probably been at an all you can drink for 4000 yen saki bar.

As i said, its not my pics ....all my stolen stuff has much better disguises that than that.

Regards

Steve

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breedsey
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooty Zooki wrote:

Offroad Armoury - are you speaking from experience or as a vendor?



Isn't that the new name for rubbers??/

Anyway, i did mine without an adaptor plate over 3 years ago now and i've never had a problem with it.
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suzukishrek
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Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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1995 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

breedseyâ„¢ wrote:
Sooty Zooki wrote:

Offroad Armoury - are you speaking from experience or as a vendor?


Isn't that the new name for rubbers??


Don't forget that Rob, as a professional vendor, has to do things "correctly" and "properly" because if anything goes wrong he can at least say that it wasn't "bodged."

That's not to say that doing it without an adapter is "wrong" or "bodged," just that in this world where it is all too Americanised and people sue others at the drop of a hat, it can be very difficult to make an honest living without fear of idiots. Evil or Very Mad

And lets not also forget that sometimes there are costs associated with a professional doing/making things that the end-user doesn't always see or get a benefit from - e or E marking being one such example and runs to several thousands of pounds on top of development, material and time costs.

That said, certain vendors do hide behind this and charge astronomical prices for "a bit of metal," SU carb manifold adapters spring to mind here! Wink

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Graham.
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Sooty Zooki
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Rob, and have bought stuff from him before (front bumper, and some reverse shackles). Both were good quality.

I was just wondering if he had tried doing one without a plate. Also Rob has a vested interest and not all advice is always impartial - no offense intended to Rob, sorry. That's all I was thinking.

As for CE marking I have never seen any on uprated bits for my truck but that's not something that bothers me.

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suzukishrek
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Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Odometer: 2815
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1995 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooty Zooki wrote:
I was just wondering if he had tried doing one without a plate. Also Rob has a vested interest and not all advice is always impartial - no offense intended to Rob, sorry. That's all I was thinking.

I know what you were thinking and I agree with you entirely, but at the same point neither of us want other folk to wonder off thinking that vendors rip us off with advice designed to make money for them I know some do and some don't.

Sooty Zooki wrote:
As for CE marking I have never seen any on uprated bits for my truck but that's not something that bothers me.

You likely won't see CE as I was talking about "e" and "E" marking which are way different things. Wink These should bother you if you use your truck on the road with stuff that is not e or E marked since, technically, you can be held liable in the event of an accident!

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Sooty Zooki
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did mean E mark Graham - diskelexia is terrible! Rolling Eyes

The type of thing I am on about, for example is:- a crawler gearset, a Richmond / Detroit locker, lifting springs, revolver shackles, even adaptor plates & bumpers, etc. Never seen E mark on any of these items.

If you insisted on only fitting parts with E mark, you would not be able to do half of what you want to mod your truck. It sounds like I would have to take my chances in court on mine as I do use it on the road... but think I am in the same boat as most on here with that one. Embarassed

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That used to be the way I done it back in the day, drill it, hack it, grind it... And don't get me wrong, it does the job... But personally, these days I'd rather bolt it together properly and know it was all aligned perfectly... Well I say perfectly, I can only speak for my own plate, not other suppliers plates that need to be re-drilled??? Rolling Eyes

Oh and yup, "The Off-Road Armory" was formerly Rubbers-Suzuki... Just a slight change of direction with the business...
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suzukishrek
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1995 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooty Zooki wrote:
I did mean E mark Graham - diskelexia is terrible! Rolling Eyes

Yeah... and why is it such a darned awkward word to spell!

Sooty Zooki wrote:
The type of thing I am on about, for example is:- a crawler gearset, a Richmond / Detroit locker, lifting springs, revolver shackles, even adaptor plates & bumpers, etc. Never seen E mark on any of these items.

Most of these items are American and don't get e marked (yet alone E marked). It's only stuff intended for use in Europe that needs it.

Sooty Zooki wrote:
If you insisted on only fitting parts with E mark, you would not be able to do half of what you want to mod your truck. It sounds like I would have to take my chances in court on mine as I do use it on the road... but think I am in the same boat as most on here with that one. Embarassed

Yep, that's the farce about e/E mark... nobody polices it. It's a complete darned farce and just costs manufacturers money which just gets passed onto the end-user. So long as it passes MOT most folks just go with that... and we all know what a load of rubbish the MOT is! Laughing

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squidgy45
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just mated engine and box, drilled through from gearbox side, put through 2 nuts and bolts and job done - its been in there 2 years now with no probs at all!!
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Zuk-D-Limit
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mot might be crap but much better thna the spanish itv that doesnt test anything and they dont allow any mods at all, cant even put 215's on your zuk!!!! Evil or Very Mad

MOT rules compared to spanish ITV!!!

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rockwatt
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

suzukishrek wrote:
Anybody tried putting the Vit engine AND gearbox into an SJ?

There's a hidden benefit to this: chop off the front output on the Vit T-case and weld it up, then the rear output goes into your existing SJ T-case - this may need moving back a bit or the engine forward. Hey presto, dual T-cases. Very Happy Since the clutch is on the way out on my 1600 truck, I might try shoving my spare Vit box in its place to see what needs "adapting" to make it fit!

Incidentally, my 1600 doesn't have an adapter plate - its tapped and drilled and it works. I think either method is valid and there will be people who swear by both so it's your truck, get on with it and do what you want as either work. Wink


yes graham I'm using the vit gearbox and tranny but I'm not just cutting the front output off I've shortened the vit tranny by about 7" . the gearbox tranny and second tranny is now 10mm shorter than the original Sammy setup (and its going in your old green lwb now with 86" wheel base) the vit tranny lever is on the side now it will make a good inti theft as it will hide almost under the seat and just leave it in neutral


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email me for details

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Kitesurf
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks a very neat job rwatt (sorry I don't know your first name). This is the direction I am thinking of going next Summer.
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suzukishrek
Mud Obsessed


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1995 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, that's a co-incidence Richard, I've just started doing the very same thing. Laughing I'd be interested to see how you've actually made that end plate and coupled the flange to the putput shaft though?

More details on what I've started over here:
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=17231

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lift man
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one i fitted in the Vitara..
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scoobystu
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is done without an adapter plate and it is a lot easier . I remember when Dunk did his with a plate and it was far from straight forward . (although his plate was supplied by someone who shall not be named ) . Originally the gearbox was designed to be so close to the block putting a plate in alters that . Water proofing also becomes harder , Do it without plate and forget about it . Shocked I just farted!!!!!
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