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Diesel injector cleaning

 
 
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Matt_D
Just got MTs


Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Odometer: 459
Location: Gloucester


1989 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Diesel injector cleaning Reply with quote

I'm giving my engine a full rebuild as one injector blocked from using veg oil allowing oil to pass by the rings, burn oil and damage the liner.

I need to clean all 4 injectors, my local diesel specialist has gone under and there is nobody local to me.

Does anyone know of any diesel specialists that can do 'mail order' injecotr cleaning or know if i can clean these myself, soak overnight in petrol or leave to soak in warm diesel ?

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'94 300tdi Disco - sold
Now 4x4 less...well apart from my 450bhp Audi S4 quattro
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Pat4d
Just got MTs


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Odometer: 156
Location: Stroud, Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think self cleaning is do-able. As I understand it solvent is pumped through under normal working pressure and each injector is cleaned until it reaches a set flow limit.
I am looking to do mine also but can't find anyone local, however Delphi are just down the road and we supply them stuff at times so I might ask if they could help out.

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1994 Discovery 300TDI
Some bits work others don't.
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Drift
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt check out Diesel Bob

http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/index.asp

Mail order

http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/injectors.shtml
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tmt
Winch Assistant


Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Odometer: 69
Location: seaford/sussex



PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi there my friend had the same problem with a hilux surf, he used -
Fuel Injection Engineers ยท Diesel Fuel Injection. Units 3-4, Avocet Way, Diplocks Way, Hailsham, East Sussex BN27 3JF. Tel: 01323 847282. Fax: 01323 849700 ...

give them a ring they weren't as expesive as he thought they would be either

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2002 disco td5 q plate disco 300tdi 06 focus st and by much loved transit
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Matt_D
Just got MTs


Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Odometer: 459
Location: Gloucester


1989 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the details guys, i'll make a few phone calls
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terence
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Diesel injector cleaning Reply with quote

Matt_D wrote:
I'm giving my engine a full rebuild as one injector blocked from using veg oil allowing oil to pass by the rings, burn oil and damage the liner.

I need to clean all 4 injectors, my local diesel specialist has gone under and there is nobody local to me.

Does anyone know of any diesel specialists that can do 'mail order' injecotr cleaning or know if i can clean these myself, soak overnight in petrol or leave to soak in warm diesel ?


explain if you will how a blocked injector , caused it to burn oil???

do you have atwin tank sysytem out of interest, keen to know how this happened.

I have some 12 years of using veggy ( off road ) and never blocked an injector yet?? is it bought in filtered or do you do youre own etc...

more info please.
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Matt_D
Just got MTs


Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Odometer: 459
Location: Gloucester


1989 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Diesel injector cleaning Reply with quote

terence mckibben wrote:

explain if you will how a blocked injector , caused it to burn oil???

do you have atwin tank sysytem out of interest, keen to know how this happened.

I have some 12 years of using veggy ( off road ) and never blocked an injector yet?? is it bought in filtered or do you do youre own etc...

more info please.


No problem.

I have since had my injectors re-conditioned by Diesel Bob who i highly recommend btw, he said all of my injectors were badly blocked.

A piston normally has 3 rings on it, 2 compression rings and a oil scraping ring, a engine relys on compression i.e the bang of the fuel for the pistons rings to work properly.
My injectors were not squirting enough diesel in to compress the rings properly (less bang) so it was allowing oil to pass past the rings (blue smoke out of exhaust) and damaged the liners.
When i say damaged i could of used them again as they were scratched rather than damaged but i'm going the full monty with the rebuild so decided to replace them, the truck had been burning a very small amount of oil for about a year (4k miles) then started getting worse which i put down to wear of the engine.

I did not have a twin tank system for the veg oil, the previous owner used to run it on 70/30 veg oil/diesel mix just chucked the veg oil straight in the tank, i ran a 50/50 mix for about 6 months.
There was a water line heater fitted to the engine coolant hoses which when the engine warmed up allowed the heater to heat the fuel lines, it worked well.

I think what happened is when i sent my diesel pump off to be re-conditioned my landy was sat on the drive for 2 weeks, in that time we had 2 or 3 sharp frosts.
Recently i had a leaking front seal on the gearbox causing the clutch to slip, so the gearbox came out and it took me 5 weeks to find a replacement flywheel, in this time again we had 2 weeks solid of really cold weather.

I think this cold weather solidified the veg oil mix so when i put the gearbox back in and drove my landy a hell of a lot of blue smoke was coming out of the exhaust and was mis-firing where one cylinder was getting no fuel at all.

Then of course i had to take my engine out, almost there just waiting on con-rod bushes from Japan now Rolling Eyes

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998dave
Winch Assistant


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Odometer: 76
Location: Suffolk



PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat4d wrote:
I don't think self cleaning is do-able. As I understand it solvent is pumped through under normal working pressure and each injector is cleaned until it reaches a set flow limit.
I am looking to do mine also but can't find anyone local, however Delphi are just down the road and we supply them stuff at times so I might ask if they could help out.


I used to work for them, before moving to Ford, the heavy duty factory is over there.

Depending on the injectors you can remove the capnut, and get the nozzle out, then remove the needle and ultrasonicly clean the nozzle. The only problem is you'd have to retorque the capnut to the right degree to sufficiently compress the injector components and minimise internal leakage, (they all leak a bit, but feed back into the low pressure fuel system).

D
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Nathaniel
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt D - Sounds like you've been using the cheaper veg oil - which is usually Soya and this stuff has a habit of polymerising in the injectors on a DI engine due to the high heat at the injectors.

You can get away with soya in an IDI engine because the injectors stay cooler and tend to be a Pintle type - which self clean to a certain extent.


998Dave - Injectors are supposed to leak back through the leakoff system - this is what lubricates the needle.

I was under the impression that Injector pressures were set with Shims in a lot of types - We have an ultrasonic cleaner here at work, I'm still toying with the idea of stripping them and cleaning them - just to see like!

I cannot decide what cleaning agent to use, Petrol? Acetone? Meths? Soap and Water?

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Nat

If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out
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Roger
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2050
Location: Redditch Worcestershire



PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a point about piston rings as the comment above re:- how they work is somewhat wide of the mark.
Piston rings - compression - when correctly fitted, exert a pressure on the cylinder walls and the end gap is a nominal amount such that the minimum "Blow by" will occur.In this way the rings will create a seal between the relative slackness of the piston and the cylinder wall.
The oil ring or scraper ring, uses a slotted design - usually - to pump lubricating oil back into the sump.
Using the pressure generated by the burning fuel is not required to increase this sealing effect. Sealing is dependent on the correct fit in the piston and the cylinder walls. The greater the wear, the poorer the fit with the chance of leakage ( Blow by ) past the piston and rings. This would decrease the initial compression pressure and make for poor starting and running.
On initial starting a diesel engine relies on this compression for starting and as the engine is cold there would be no fuel burning pressure to assist it.

Roger
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998dave
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Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Location: Suffolk



PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathaniel wrote:

998Dave - Injectors are supposed to leak back through the leakoff system - this is what lubricates the needle.

I was under the impression that Injector pressures were set with Shims in a lot of types - We have an ultrasonic cleaner here at work, I'm still toying with the idea of stripping them and cleaning them - just to see like!

I cannot decide what cleaning agent to use, Petrol? Acetone? Meths? Soap and Water?


From experience I'd clean with Acetone in an ultrasonic. If you can put the nozzles in a small glass beaker full of acetone within an ultrasonic bath, (so top of beaker is above the surface), you'll still get the cleaning, but won't contaminate all the cleaning fluid.

In EUI's (Electronic Unit Injectors), of the type Bosch and Delphi produce there are electro magnetic coils that pull armature's and pins against a spring load. Adjusting the shims behind that spring adjust your spring force and change your injector timing and response.

The needle's are generally 'submersed' in fuel anyway, which happens to lubricate the entire injector, you get low pressure leaks down needles and valve's, between components, etc, all of which feed back to the low pressure system. Increasing capnut torque reduces leaks between components but can distort them and change spring loads and injector response as well.

Injectors are made, tested, and barcoded, this code is then inserted into the ECU to allow it to slightly adjust timing for each injector to get them as closely matched as possible. The ECU then self adjusts as the injectors wear slightly through their life.

Dave
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** GED **
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 18 Jun 2014
Odometer: 1971
Location: Scouser



PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

really?

Confused

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Nightbar
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ged.
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Mr Tyre
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats bought that up to date then Very Happy
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Nightbar
Difflock Royalty


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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was spam.
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Mr Tyre
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing new then Smile
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