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AUSSIE MID ENGINED V6 BUGGY BUILD
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:50 am    Post subject: AUSSIE MID ENGINED V6 BUGGY BUILD Reply with quote

I’ve been building and racing my own sedans and buggies for basic level motorsport for thirty years, winning a few club championships and state titles along the way. A number of things have motivated me to do this new project.
I’ve just about finished building my V6 EG Civic and have decided to keep it just as a tar car. Dirt events take a fairly high and constant toll on bodywork, but as rallysprints are my favourite events and I wanted to return to them, I decided to build something specifically for them. Wanting no bodywork meant it’d have to be a buggy, and the four previous ones I’d made have given me good experience in how to do it. Looking around at the current buggies I couldn’t get away from how ancient most of the winners technology was, with most of them using VW suspension designed before World War II, floor pans over forty years old, and engines from the 1980’s at best.
If I was going to invest the time, money and effort this’d take I was confident I could construct a new bench mark, and race for outright victories. A front wheel drive buggy would be way too light in the rear to handle and drift well on the dirt. Although I’ve successfully raced rear engined / rear wheel drive buggies, I felt there had to be something better than the VW type rear end with an engine swap that’s been so done to death. That only left a mid-engined racer. I’d seen a few of these made by moving a complete front wheel drive front end to the rear, and the design and race performances I’d seen had always impressed me.I'd mapped out a basic chassis design incorporating what I thought was the best features from a number of buggies and build sites I'd cruised.
Then by chance a few weeks ago a good mate of mine told me he had a buggy chassis for sale - an old "Bushmaster"off roader. It had held a VW front and rear and didn't meet the new CAMS requirements for buggies because: 1) The diagonals are not within the main hoop 2) The rear braces have a curve in them 3) The roof is not covered nor braced to the floor and main hoop 4) The bar which holds the steering column isn't the same size as the roll bars. 5) There are no braces across the floor between the base of the front pillars nor half way between them and the main hoop. 6) The bar running up the middle of the chassis is too small. 7) It has no rear wheel protector side bars.
but it'd provide me with a lot of the right steel already bent to shapes I was sure I could adapt into my build. I love the sound of an angle grinder in the morning!

I built a levelled, raised false floor in my garage and have marked a 100cm grid onto it. This gives me quick measurements and ensures everything will be square. A perfectly flat floor equals a perfectly flat chassis floor. I've begun with the new centre rail and the cross member on which the main hoop will stand. The cross member is the width of the outside rear tyre track.
Next I've added the side floor rails and the cross members as CAMS requires - all made from 40mm square tubing.
The main hoop is then shown without a cross member and after I re-cut the old one into it. This design is one CAMS approves.
These fifteen 3mm gusset plates will strengthen the chassis and also serve as mounting points for the floor.
They avoid weakening the frame with bolt holes, and will allow me to drop the floor out when it gets full of muddy slop like I got buried in at Ansell Park late last year. I will employ them as needed throughout the chassis to eliminate any cracking at high stress points.
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Now you might be wondering why on earth this build is on this site. Well I searched the net without any preconceptions to find the most powerful, readily available, and most affordable car fwd car from which to derive a powertrain and suspension to move to the rear of my buggy. I’m notorious in my home town of Newcastle as a Honda nut, but to everyone’s surprise – I settled on a 3.5 V6 Magna with a manual gearbox as the ideal donor car.
I watch the car salvage auction listings up here almost every day, and within 5 weeks what I wanted came up, and I got it with a mere $350 bid.

It had rolled into an empty storm water drain, damaging no mechanicals but just about every panel on the car… perfect for my needs and virtually no-one elses.

With an electric winch mounted overhead, I was easily able to lift the body up and remove the entire front end.
The aluminium subframe locates most of the suspension geometry and would save me weeks of work.
I filled the shell with spare motors and car scrap and took it off to the metal munchers where I got $167 for it. This is a scary industrial site where cars go to die… and be re-born as god knows what or where.
I carefully positioned the powerplant and subframe squarely and level on my table lined up with marks for my 2 metre wheelbase.
Screwing the drivers compartment frame and cage in place on the table enabled me to design and fabricate a rear subframe before my welding mate came over for what’ll be a mammoth session. I picked up the six lower subframe mounting points.
After the lower frame I bent up the main rear chassis rail.
Then cut it’s supporting diagonals.
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Redliner
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



A basic rule in steering geometry is that the swivel joints on the end of a steering rack must align with an imaginary vertical line between the inner mounting points of the front lower and top wishbones. If this is neglected the car will steer itself as the suspension moves up & down… “bump steer”. To avoid this problem (particularly in a narrow front framed car), requires that either a steering rack be shortened to match the chassis width, or that the frame be made to the width of a suitable rack.
Shortening a rack isn’t a cheap or simple exercise by the time you buy one, dismantle it, have it machined, and then re-assembled. I searched e-bay for shortened racks, but the few I could find were either tiny ones designed for miniature motor bike engine buggies, or expensive new speedway items. Most were overseas with high shipping costs and prices over $400. So I just kept on looking without much hope, until last week on the ninth page under “steering rack” I saw something that appeared short and looked like it might be suitable. It was in Victoria with only a few hours to go – not enough time to find out it’s width. But it was only $20 “Buy it now”, so I took the risk and grabbed it.
The driver sits further forward in a mid-engined chassis. This means there is no room to mount a rack behind the front uprights, as there isn’t enough room with the foot well being so far forward. I ‘d worked out what front suspension uprights I wanted to use, but realized I’d have to swap them over from left to right so the steering arms were in front of the hubs.
Two days later I had my cheap used part from a Peugot 205 Gti hatch, and it was only a little wider than my laid out chassis. As this hadn’t been welded yet, I merely had to widen the frame’s nose by 100mm and it was a perfect fit. For $20! Now I can fabricate the front end of the frame.






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Ducky
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Joined: 14 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work fella, will keep watching for updates! Cool
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r085
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Joined: 03 Jul 2010
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Location: KENT


1989 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks very nice. keep up the good work.
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baloo
Articulating


Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Odometer: 942
Location: Redditch



PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting stuff, this caught my attention on OFN where l am following it,
keep up the good works
Andy
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Redliner
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Odometer: 172




PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a start on fabricating the front of the car. First piece I bent up was a big horizontal nerf bar to protect me and some of the front suspension. I made it a bit on the long side so I can trim it to size once the car is rolling and steering. I'll also brace it's ends back to the frame. Next bender creation was the lower lip of the "Rhino" bar which will be fitted with 3mm steel sheet to serve as a skid plate. It reminds me of one I made on and earlier pig hunting buggy. Still remember the sound it made when you ran over a grunter. It's angled right up to match the angle the nose might get when landing from a big lift off.

Following pic shows the sort of strengthening I'll put in once the front's welded on. Triangulation is the strongest friend of any spaceframe.

Here you can see the 25mm straight bar I cut to go from the top of the front hoop curve to the floor as CAMS requires.

Then I triangulated it into the side "hip" bar so they're bracing each other.

Here's a place I can add triangulation with minimal weight increase and without obstructing my forward vision. This is gonna be one tough chassis - which should stop both it and me from breaking.
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scotty wong
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked Shocked mate your not wrong thats guna be strong!! Laughing Laughing good luck with it,looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

with the power to weight it should fly!

scotty

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if the truth can be told so as to understood it will be believed. jeep xj
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My pic above showing the bottom rail of the frame coming up at an angle at the front may concern some with suspension design awareness. Normally in a car with a lower wishbone like a clubman, racing car (or even a road car), the suspension moves up and down at 90 degrees to the horizontal. Even if it's lying over at an angle away from the wheel any coil or strut must move up and down in the same vertical plane in which the wheel does. So a discerning viewer of this build thread might think that with my frame coming up sharply at the front I haven't enough front frame low down on which to mount the front inner wishbone swivel point.

However the front wheels on this buggy will NOT travel up and down at 90 degrees to the horizontal. If they did, I'd have to build those ugly high top strut mount points sticking up halfway along the bonnet to locate long travel shocks. That blocks road view and (I think), looks bloody ugly. In deciding to NOT use a VW trailing arm front end I had to search for a better design - one that I could both understand and build. Lots of surfing in cyberspace has led me to copy a design where the front wheels move BACK as they ride up. The coloured lines in this doctored pic show: red: the bonnet line defining brace that will slope down from the front hoop all the way to that big front bar; yellow: the top strut leaning right back with it's top mounting point off the front hoop, green: the lines at 90 degrees to the shock's travel along which the top and lower front wishbones will need to be positioned. The latter shows how much higher than a vertical travelling suspension the very front mounting points for the wishbones will need to be. Like I said at the very start of this blog - this will not be an old school build.
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This pic shows the second rear compulsory roof brace I needed to install going from the main hoop down to the hip rail. You can see how much tougher it makes the driver’s compartment than the old buggy frame I started with.

Once again I chose to add gusseting to make it even stronger which joins the brace into the diagonal within the main hoop, plus a tube triangulating the side hoop to the outer edge of than main hoop. Sorry about the masking tape – but it’s the only way I can keep fabricating before my welder and his MIG arrive without loose bits of steel falling on my head.

I added a second gusset plate to tie the rear roof brace into two bars within the main hoop, each bar strengthening the other.
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now for some lessons in steering geometry. A good friend of mine who’s built many race cars is following this build blog and rang to warn me of a problem to avoid. In a nutshell if I use Magna hubs in the front of my buggy by swapping the left to the right and vice versa because I’ll end up with Reverse Ackerman. His call reminded me of a Datsun Bluebird my brother in law bought that’d had a V8 swap done on it, and they’d had to swap the front uprights across so they could put a forward mounted steering rack in it to clear the block. I drove that car and it was WEIRD around corners. He had a wheel alignment done, they discovered Reverse Ackerman, so he sold the car asap. But what is it???

Ackermann steering geometry is an arrangement of linkages in the steering of a car designed to solve the problem of wheels on the inside and outside of a turn needing to trace out circles of different radius. The intention of it is to avoid the need for tyres to slip sideways when following the path around a curve. Ackermann steering geometry is made by moving the steering pivot points inward so as to lie on a line drawn between the steering kingpins and the centre of the rear axle. You can see from the following pic of the Magna front hubs I am using on the back, that if you put the steering rack in the front of the axle line you need your steering arm rack holes on the hubs to be CLOSER to the disc brakes, rather than angle away from thems.


So what does this mean for my build? Basically to use a steering rack mounted forward of the front axle line means I’ll have to source a pair of front uprights from a road car of the same design, and with the Magna stud pattern of 5 x 114.3. Some likely candidates from my initial research suggests Mazda Rx7, Skyline R33 or R34, and Toyoata Hilux 2wd worth looking at in the metal.
Does anyone know if any of these cars have a forward mounted rack?

I cut more re-enforcing bars for the rollcage. Although these two going to the top outer edge of the main hoop aren’t compulsory why would you NOT have them? I’ve at last run out of steel to cut more framing until my steel merchant re-opens in the New Year, but I’m sure MIG man will be glad of that!
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Odometer: 172




PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son races this RX7 series 6 and sent me pics of his suspension, which uses a front mounted steering rack. So with the same stud pattern as the TJ Magna it looks like I've found the front hubs and brakes I need to chase after for "Raptor".


Here's what his toy looks like. It used to be black but we vinyly wrapped it copying the Le Mans winning Rx7. Easier and cheaper than painting, and you can change it when you get bored.

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Redliner
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Odometer: 172




PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to remove the rear steering rack and locate the tie rod ends. The other fwd power plants to rwd converted buggies I’d seen had all fastened the tie rod ends cut off from their redundant steering racks to their chassis. This requires exact locating, otherwise the car will steer itself as it rides up & down (bump steer). I would’ve done it the same way, except I was lucky enough to have a careful look two weeks ago at a brand new mid engined Clubman a club member had made for black top work. I’d already got a few innovative suspension ideas off his car as I walked around it at it’s debut. Then I saw he’d fastened his rear (non-steering) tie rod ends to the lower wishbones rather than the chassis. I instantly realised this was a much better method, because the tie rod arms would just move as part of the wishbone itself – eliminating any possibility of bumpsteer.
So the first thing I did was cut and shorten the tie rod arms off the rack, then I threaded them to take two large nuts.

Then I made a strong bracket to be welded onto the wishbone to which I could bolt the arms. I drilled a small hole in the arm ends to take a split pin as a failsafe. I’ll weld the outer nut and a big washer to the rod, and use a Nylock nut before the split pin on the inside.

Although not crucial, you can see from above that the rod lines up with where it used to attach to the steering rack, which has now been removed. And what a heavy cow it was too!

Adjusting toe in and out on the rear will obviously be a cinch now.
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking good,its always good to see someone doing soming thing different Cool

but you are now going to get alot of camber changes on the rear when the suspension moves up and down.

what are you doing for the top hub mount??
are you going double wish bone??

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http://www.bloodredoffroad.com/
Angry parrot fabrications,check me out on Facebook
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Redliner
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Odometer: 172




PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fwd converted to mid engined buggies I want to beat here all retain the stock fwd factory setup of lower wishbone and the use of the strut for top location. Because it requires no thought or engineering to do that. However from racing my Civic I know one of the main reasons it handles better than your average fwd is because it has a top wishbone. So I was determined to fit a top wishbone to the Magna front end when I moved it to the back in this build.

Just after I bought my donor car I saw a kit car a mate had built where he'd done this, by simply fitting a plate either side of the mounting holes that used to hold the strut, and then fitting a balljoint in betweem them going to a top wishbone he made himself. I intend doing the same, and will fit a large bolt low down on the factory lower wishbone on which to mount a long travel coil over unit.
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reversing the Gearshift
One of the things that attracted me to the Magna for this build was that the gear shift linkages were cables – rather than rods. This makes re-positioning the gearstick in front of the mid-engined motor (compared to behind the donk in it’s factory fwd set up), much easier. The cable collars were mounted at the back of the motor near the flywheel – but if I used the stock position the cables would have to be significantly lengthened, and the gearstick would be on the wrong side of the cockpit. So I put the cables on the other side of the gearbox linkages, changing it from a push / pull setup to a pull / push one. I did this through some pivot arms I made and a couple of turn buckles left over from a landscaping job. This reversed the shift pattern… which is just what I wanted.


Besides the cabling now going forward of the engine (instead of back), the cables would now enter the gearstick from behind it (rather than from the front). I spun the gearstick around the other way – two control reverses retaining the normal shift pattern, and cables that won’t need lengthening.



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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TIG Man Starts
My son James has just bought and learnt to use a TIG welder for the construction we both do on our race cars. TIG welding is slower than MIG – but stronger and more suited to delicate jobs. So I took the gear shift linkages I’d cut and a few other bits over to him and away he went.

Then it was back home to paint them with aerosol engine enamel. It needs no primer, is heat proof, and quick drying. By afternoon tea time I was able to assemble the welded linkage pieces and adjust them to clear where the chassis rail will go.

I also re-fitted a couple of engine brackets I’d lightened and painted as well.

If I’m lucky MIG man will turn up tomorrow and we can get into welding the main pieces of the chassis together.


Last edited by Redliner on Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just watched today's Dakar and saw lots of vehicles with their front struts leaning back and the wheel going back as it went up. They're called motorbikes
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look What Turned Up Today
My son James picked up these Mazda RX7 series 8 front hubs and brakes in Sydney and dropped them off. They are HUGE, with FOUR pot calipers. Tons of grip here, and you can see how readily the hubs will bolt into the double wishbones I’ll make. Nice and short too, being only 20cm high from the top to bottom joint. This measurement determines the distance between the inner mounting points for both upper and lower wishbones on the front chassis, so I am well pleased.


These were in a front mounted steering rack like my design, and if you compare the angles of the steering arms on my previous pic of the Magna hubs to these the difference is obvious, as is that I will have no reverse Ackerman using these babies.

My 12 1/2 inch steering wheel also turned up - just $35 on E-bay. I think we can thank compulsory airbags in road cars for this price plummet.

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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Positioning the front hubs
On the second last day of my annual leave I unbolted the four pot calipers and discs off the Mazda RX7 hubs. This made them a lot lighter and easier to handle, and with coach screws I was able to screw them to the construction floor on the wheel base line.

Holding them in place this way is going to make measuring up for the pilot wishbones a lot easier.

I’d bent the front lower half of the bullbar that’ll also hold the first piece of the front floor, so I cut the skid plate for it out of 3mm sheet which will be welded to it.

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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just been informed I've screwed those hubs upside down! d'oh!
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parrotveasey81
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redliner wrote:
Just been informed I've screwed those hubs upside down! d'oh!



Laughing woops
but will it make that much difference for you as its all custom built??

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http://www.bloodredoffroad.com/
Angry parrot fabrications,check me out on Facebook
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Redliner
Just got MTs


Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Odometer: 172




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"but will it make that much difference for you as its all custom built??

No, because I will determine all the angles as I build the front suspension. But the tie rod ends woulda been belly up, and I wouldn't want to upset anyone. 'Rolling Eyes'
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hubs DO look better the right way up!



Drilling out the seat front cross member

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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saved a runner out of the Magna so I could easily adjust the seat in Raptor, and you can see where Tig-son welded in the cross member I made, after which I gave it a coat of rust proof paint.

You can see how this seat mounts in position, and I’ll make a carbon fibre version this weekend or the next.

I also lightened and painted the gearshift mechanism.
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to make myself a copy of this seat I made a fibreglass mould of a few years ago. It’ll be my first attempt at carbon fibre.

Not too difficult a material to work with. Has it’s own peculiarities, but easier and nowhere near as much mess as fibreglass. But it’s strong. When I came back after lunch to trim the job it’d glued itself to my makeshift table and really didn’t wanna part with it! I’ll leave it overnight to gain maximum strength, and flip it out of the mould tomorrow.
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here’s the finished product next to a fibreglass one I made a while ago. The results speak for themselves!
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my latest You Tube film showing this seat being made with techniques that can be used in any garage http://youtu.be/U13Bb4rTGPs
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Redliner
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mig man came over today and we tacked the driver’s cockpit together and fully welded the underside of the floor.


The front half of the frame isn’t as heavy as a few feared. Dave & I reckon it’s around 30kg. Compare that to how much heavier a VW floor pan would be. It feels incredibly strong thanks to all the triangulation, gussets and required bracing – even though it’s only tacked lightly at this stage.


Now I can sit in it and – more importantly – haul my backside out of it now it’s held together by more than masking tape! Talk about being inside a steel cocoon. I was also able to accurately work out the height I want the bar that holds the steering wheel to be, meaning I can cut several bars that relate to this point.
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clbarclay
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Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Odometer: 1779
Location: Worcesterhire


1987 Land Rover Range Rover

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The obligatory part of every custom build, sitting in it holding a steering wheel making brum brum noises. Ergonomics is just a cover up name for it Laughing
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