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Dere Street nr. Jedburgh

 
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> Green Lanes and Rights of Way
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GVstu
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Odometer: 2314
Location: Northumberland



PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Dere Street nr. Jedburgh Reply with quote

Has anyone driven this (are we allowed) there's a sign at the gate for it that says ****** off between certain months but seemingly all was well at other times.

Don't want to get on the wrong side of the law.

I've searched the forum but I can't find much on it, on the OS map it's listed as "other road drive or track"

Can someone clarify this?

Many thanks,

stu

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He asked me if I'd seen a road with so much dust and sand; And I said, "Listen! I've traveled every road in this here land!"
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LlaniGraham
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Joined: 06 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean it is an ORPA (Other Route with Public Access) with dots along it, or just a plain black edged track with nothing extra?

I've just looked on the current OS web site, and followed Dere St from Boswells in the north to Pennymuse Camp in the south and can't find any of it recorded as an ORPA or allowing anything more than footpath use.

What EXACTLY does the sign say?

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GVstu
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Joined: 05 Mar 2008
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Location: Northumberland



PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LlaniGraham wrote:
Do you mean it is an ORPA (Other Route with Public Access) with dots along it, or just a plain black edged track with nothing extra?

I've just looked on the current OS web site, and followed Dere St from Boswells in the north to Pennymuse Camp in the south and can't find any of it recorded as an ORPA or allowing anything more than footpath use.

What EXACTLY does the sign say?


That's the thing mate I saw the byway signs but I'll be going back to read them in daylight before I even think about this. From what I've found online I believe it to be as you say (ORPA) but I'm hella twitchy over these things so i need to check it out first, I will go over this weekend and read / photograph the signage.

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Rossko
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of Dere Street south of the border is Restricted Byway, you don't want to be straying there.
http://www.trailwise.org.uk/gmaps/gmap.htm??sq=...91&distance=3
North of the border there is no such thing as byway, different laws

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GVstu
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rossko wrote:
Part of Dere Street south of the border is Restricted Byway, you don't want to be straying there.
http://www.trailwise.org.uk/gmaps/gmap.htm??sq=...91&distance=3
North of the border there is no such thing as byway, different laws


Perhaps this is why I'm confused about this - we found an entrance by arriving from the north (scotland side).

I'm holding off on this one until someone else pops in that says its fine.

Also - it appears that this is a scheduled national monument (something to do with construction type etc) which seems a little iffy that you should be driving on anyway, sign or no sign. I might just give this one a miss.

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andrewk
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Dere Street nr. Jedburgh Reply with quote

PAJEROstu wrote:
Has anyone driven this (are we allowed) there's a sign at the gate for it that says ****** off between certain months but seemingly all was well at other times.


Yes, I drove it on Monday this week. When we were there, the Land Rover Experience folks (half a dozen new white shiny various Landies) were at the Pennymuir end preening their motors - so obviously, they use it too!!

The section from the seasonal TRO sign at NT 755 143 (Pennymuir) heading north to NT 740 190 is, according to Scotways, one of only three "Vindicated" rights of way for motor vehicles in Scotland. Vindicated means that the road's status has been tested and proven in court. The section from Bonjedward in the north to NT 715 200 in the south might also be legally drivable. I have heard from a friend that the Borders Council access officer told him that it was OK to drive it - but I cannot personally confirm that. It is not included in the Scotways CRoW (catalogue of rights of way) - but then again, that doesn't mean a lot - as only about 140 vehicular routes are.

Dere Street is a heavily constructed stone road, typical of Roman roads throughout the UK. It is, though, covered for most of its length by a heavy layer of silt that is up to a foot deep in places. The silt is very rutted but a hard surface does exist at the bottom of the ruts. It should be drivable by any 4x4 with decent ground clearance. We had two completely stock vehicles and drove it (from north to south) without undue difficulty - mine, a long wheelbase MKIV Nissan Patrol on 265/70 R17 Grabber AT2 all-terrains and a Defender 90 200TDi on 238/85 R16 BFG MTs.

I wouldn't take any vehicle up it on road tyres and, without wishing to be at all controversial, I would not describe it as Freelander friendly - especially driven from south to north, as there is a deeply rutted, very wet and quite steep uphill section only a few hundred yards north of Pennymuir.

Best of luck

Cheers
Andrew
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GVstu
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Odometer: 2314
Location: Northumberland



PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Dere Street nr. Jedburgh Reply with quote

andrewk wrote:
PAJEROstu wrote:
Has anyone driven this (are we allowed) there's a sign at the gate for it that says ****** off between certain months but seemingly all was well at other times.


Yes, I drove it on Monday this week. When we were there, the Land Rover Experience folks (half a dozen new white shiny various Landies) were at the Pennymuir end preening their motors - so obviously, they use it too!!

The section from the seasonal TRO sign at NT 755 143 (Pennymuir) heading north to NT 740 190 is, according to Scotways, one of only three "Vindicated" rights of way for motor vehicles in Scotland. Vindicated means that the road's status has been tested and proven in court. The section from Bonjedward in the north to NT 715 200 in the south might also be legally drivable. I have heard from a friend that the Borders Council access officer told him that it was OK to drive it - but I cannot personally confirm that. It is not included in the Scotways CRoW (catalogue of rights of way) - but then again, that doesn't mean a lot - as only about 140 vehicular routes are.

Dere Street is a heavily constructed stone road, typical of Roman roads throughout the UK. It is, though, covered for most of its length by a heavy layer of silt that is up to a foot deep in places. The silt is very rutted but a hard surface does exist at the bottom of the ruts. It should be drivable by any 4x4 with decent ground clearance. We had two completely stock vehicles and drove it (from north to south) without undue difficulty - mine, a long wheelbase MKIV Nissan Patrol on 265/70 R17 Grabber AT2 all-terrains and a Defender 90 200TDi on 238/85 R16 BFG MTs.

I wouldn't take any vehicle up it on road tyres and, without wishing to be at all controversial, I would not describe it as Freelander friendly - especially driven from south to north, as there is a deeply rutted, very wet and quite steep uphill section only a few hundred yards north of Pennymuir.

Best of luck

Cheers
Andrew


Hey thanks for the info Andrew that's very handy indeed! Dere street isn't all that far from me at all, however being as it was north of the border I wasn't sure at all about access rights...

I hadn't heard that term vindicated when applied to a lane before but I did read some old articles on it on the net that made me think it was OK to drive it but then again the articles were from around 2000 and a lot of things can happen over the years.

Hopefully those shinies will be there for me to jeer at if I have a go! Wink

Many thanks!

Stu

(Incidentally I walked part of dere street as a young boy with the DoE and Scouts along the section that runs through kidland forest. Strange how things come around.)

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He asked me if I'd seen a road with so much dust and sand; And I said, "Listen! I've traveled every road in this here land!"
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valeterjack
Gate Opener


Joined: 27 Dec 2011
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Location: Sprouston, Kelso TD5 8HR



PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi just registered after reading your post dere street is legal to drive from mounthooly (Jedburgh) to the english border after which there is a sign restricting access this is due to it being a military firing base

if you fancy going up sometime give me a pm and i'm sure something could be arranged i ussualy go up dere street a couple of times a month with my neighbour in his hilux surf Very Happy Very Happy
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andrewk
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Odometer: 103
Location: Oldham


2005 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

valeterjack wrote:
hi just registered after reading your post dere street is legal to drive from mounthooly (Jedburgh) to the english border after which there is a sign restricting access this is due to it being a military firing base


Nope, not so. There is no vehicular access from Tow Ford south towards the English border. This sign is just south of the ford.

See: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1383943

Andrew
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Rossko
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Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following on from Land Rover spottings ...
http://www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/news/local..._pledge_1_2008041

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andrewk
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting find, Ross. The stretch north from Pennymuir was certainly a mess when we were there in October.

I cannot help but ponder quite how Land Rover are going to repair Dere Street. It is a Roman Roman road with maybe a foot or more of silt along a lot of its length. Are they going to remove the silt to restore it back to its original condition - or just fill in the ruts which, in reality, makes the damage worse?

Andrew
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GVstu
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Joined: 05 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...never did do this lane Confused

Has there been any movement on the repairs?

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He asked me if I'd seen a road with so much dust and sand; And I said, "Listen! I've traveled every road in this here land!"
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andrewk
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GVstu wrote:
...never did do this lane Confused

Has there been any movement on the repairs?



No idea, but we are hoping to have a look early next week.

Andrew
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LlaniGraham
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Joined: 06 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epic!!
Reopening a 4 year old posting.

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