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is it possible without contacting the vosa

 
 
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scouse_mouse
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Odometer: 653
Location: In the North of Wales by the sea



PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:35 pm    Post subject: is it possible without contacting the vosa Reply with quote

want to put a winch on rear of my disco , looking at it I have a winch bumper fron a 90 , if I cut the tray out is it possible to cut into rear cross member infront of the tank to set the tray back , without touching the chassis rails , it may then be possible to weld it to the chassis , thus making a stronger crossmember , in theory , does anyone have any thoughts /suggestions .
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teamidris
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
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Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking the average of what has been said on here over the years, it seems the chassis rails are the chassis, not the outriggers and crossmembers? This makes sence if you look at a historic vehicle chassis, which is two rails, with bolt on or rivit on parts. The 'parts' can be changed.

I think your looking at the cross member above the axel? (rear cross member infront of the tank) As opposed to; rear cross member behind the tank. It would need some bracing, so why not use the main 'A' frame member. Then you can reach the free-wheel lever. Plus this bigger member feeds the stress/load of the winch into the latice frame of the chassis/rolll cage.



I used the winch mount tubes as the cage brace, to make double use of the metal.

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scouse_mouse
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
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Location: In the North of Wales by the sea



PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

was thinking of the one just by the rear bumper , then fabricating it to look like a rear bumper , with access to free spool from cut out hole in the top of bumper , i ya know what I mean . Not very good at explanation am I Very Happy Embarassed
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waveydave
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: waveyvillie oop norf


1994 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could just make a rear winch bumper then you wont have to worry about any construction of use regs.


I did on my old disco and the bumper only added a few inches to the length of the car and to be honnest the departutre angle was even improved.

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OUCH
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scouse_mouse
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

any pice of the build or finished article
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oshimon
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Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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Location: Jerusalem. Israel



PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much help I know but.......................

With the way things are going over there it sounds like it will be in a similar state as it is here.......

Welding to the chassis (or even drilling holes into the chassis for bolts) would/could be classed as "altering the chassis" or however it is worded by VOSA?

Would this be true?

Here if you fit a winch it is tested by our equivalent of VOSA and then added onto the vehicles documentation/MOT/tax paper (all one bit of paper here), serial number of winch and all........

Not listed on the vehicles documentation? Then no MOT, tax or insurance Rolling Eyes

And yes, they really do test it properly and know what they are on about.
None of this DIY stuff either - you need a piece of paper from a place that is certified to do the work saying they did it.

Simon 'both good and bad' Owen.

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There are some days when even my lucky underpants can't help.....

For Ian's sake, desperately trying to keep up at the back.
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The Pikester
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Joined: 14 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds the same as Germany. EU harmonisation of MOT policy is coming too....
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RichardD
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Joined: 13 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everyone is getting confused a little with teh whole IVA/VOSA/MOT thang.

As I understand it, and I've done a 'little' research, for a car that is already registered in the UK for the road and, if appropriate, has a valid MOT or could pass one, adaptations to the chassis do not need to be declared to the DVLA unless it materially changes the identity of the vehicle.

What you are suggesting does not alter the layout, seating capacity or identity of the car which a UK registered vehicle. There is no need to involve the DVLA and, by extension, VOSA but you MUST inform your Insurance company.

On a technical note, I would consider changing the rear suspension to cope with the extra weight as well.

I've seen Wavey's old Disco up close and apart from being heavier than a supertanker, it was a work of art and did a grand job. I would also recommend a removable solution that you can take with you to your next Disco

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N.R.G97
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Joined: 09 Dec 2009
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1966 Land Rover Hybrid

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

depends, if your boot is rotten out then something like mine chould be done, however on a disco you woulkd need to move the fuel tank etc and cut the floor out.

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http://www.wellspacedout.co.uk/home
http://www.winch-it.com/index.php
http://www.profendersuspension.com/
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scouse_mouse
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as soon as i can work out how to do diagrams on a computer I will post my suggestions to see what you all think , as for the suspension , old man emu all round and springs with gwyn lewis spring spacers ready for the extra weight .
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scut44
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not suggesting you buy this, but to see similar to what you need to manufacture, look at
www.devon4x4.com
In the online shop in winch mounts.

There is the 'Universal winch mount' you can put between the chassis rails,
or do something like the Devon 4x4 rear winch mount for replacing the rear
X member when building a Trayback.

george

Why not just go with a dismountable & use for front & rear?



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scouse_mouse
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that system looks like even more trouble hanging over the back though , Think I am ordering universal from devon 4x4 , I made a mock-up of the tray out of cardboard and the over hang is slightly less than the bumper , then we can fabricate the tray into a rear bumper , so when the plan starts I will start posting da pics , if anyone interested .
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SOA93
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
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Location: Southam, Warwickshire



PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scouse_mouse wrote:
was thinking of the one just by the rear bumper , then fabricating it to look like a rear bumper , with access to free spool from cut out hole in the top of bumper , i ya know what I mean . Not very good at explanation am I Very Happy Embarassed


I have done this, I fitted an EP9 snug up to the tank, and it didn't hang below the chassis rails and didn't extend further than the standard bumper, it requires a 2" body lift though if you want to open the rear door, It required a fair bit of fabbing obviously and I raised the fuel tank 2" as well so that the rear of the tank did not hang below the chassis rails. Biggest issue I had was that although the space is there for the winch getting in and out of the space is difficult, I never finished it off completely, but I did take lots of pics, not on this PC however. I'll have a search for them over the weekend and have a go at posting them up. The Disco is still here but minus its body now, so I can take some new pics if needed.
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Nightbar
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget in the likes of Greece and a few other EU countries that tow balls, winches and all other additions to the makers normal build must be demountable. They are not allowed to be permanently fitted protruding beyond the original vehicle shape except when in use.
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scouse_mouse
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
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Location: In the North of Wales by the sea



PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here in Wales we have our own rules Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Update .
Bought a Gwyn Lewis tray , had a long chat at his workshop , we formulated a cunning plan , and yes please if you have the pics , great .
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scouse_mouse
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right , I`ve started it after a long list of `jobs to do` by wifey !!!
enclosed the pics of how far I`ve got





so managed to get it roughly in position , in mockup form , time to clean chassis up for da welder and make the side pieces.
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RichardD
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Joined: 13 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always a good idea to box it in.

My front winch tray, from Whitbread's, has a 'floating' or un-rebated fairlead plate which bent back against the winch trapping the rope the first time I leaned up against a tree.

It's coming off to be 'improved' before my next event.

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Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him.
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scouse_mouse
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwyn is going to make the rest of the tray fit into a bumper so it should be fairly solid . Is that what you mean .
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I meant was that most winch trays are designed simply to resist the rotational action of the winch trying to tear itself off the plate so they have limited amount of folding in the design to increase rigidity.

What is often forgotten is that the mounts are also used as battering rams and ploughs against mud banks, trees and rocks so making them with solid sides stops the fairlead plate from bending in.

You've obviously thought of this but possibly not for the reasons I'm highlighting.

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Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him.
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scouse_mouse
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that , no I had not , but sir lewis had already pointed me in the right direction , will post more pics if I can get away from the ever increasing `jobs to do ` list Rolling Eyes
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scouse_mouse
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

got my tray welded up today , think it will be strong enough !!
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scouse_mouse
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

got this far Very Happy





plasa rope to go plus loads of wire !!!
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john_sj413
Just got MTs


Joined: 23 Nov 2009
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1988 Suzuki SJ413

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: rear winch tray Reply with quote

would you make a copy of that tray? did you just remove the rear bumper and weld the tray to the rails?
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scouse_mouse
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

got the tray from gwyn lewis , made side pieces , cut out part of cross member , and bobs your uncle Very Happy
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