Best series 3 for offroading

Peter200TDI · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: Best series 3 for offroading

Hi

I´m considering to buy a series 3 Land Rover. They will all be fitted with difflocks and parabolics.

But what is the best car for offroading:

Leightweight?

88"?

Or 109" One Ton?

I personally think the leightweight and the 88" is pretty much the same in terrain, but how about the 109" One Ton - I belive it can be fitted with 35" tyres without to many problems. The other 2 will properly only be on 33" tyres.

Best regards Peter

clbarclay · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:46 pm Post subject:

In some respects there is nothing in it wheelbase wise, what one gains in tighter turning circle the other generally gets back on hill climbs.

Not sure on 1ton axles, but 33s and lockers will abuse ordinary half shafts. Depending on wheel offset and body mods, bigger tyres can ruin and already pretty woeful turning circle of any wheelbase series.

I would go for a canvas tilt though so you can roll up the sides and inhale the nostalgia on lovely summer days. They are about as warm and dry as a hard top on a winters day Laughing

856lr · Just got MTs Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Odometer: 133

my presonal choice would be 88". not sure anything series will be reliable off road with lockers. metal fatigue aside they were never strong axles in the first place.
d90 or 110 may be a better starting point.

jamie_grieve · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject:

Shorten a stage 1 V8 for the strongest components in a series motor for off road use. 35's will go on with no probs at the front with offset wheels but at the back as in all 'proper' landrovers you need to cut the top of the wheel box out. The front wings need pulled out a bit which can be done easily by hand. The one ton had ENV axles which you won't find lockers for. The lightweight body work is too narrow for 35's and a turning circle so needs flared arches and also needs the wheel boxes chopped out which will never look right.
Extended bump stops are not an option as anything that limits wheel travel limits capability.
Why not buy a 90?

N.R.G97 · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject:

i would have an 88, the lightweights are fugly and harder to get new body bits and you will get the purists screaming down your throat!
i wouldent use a 109 unless 1ton, only 1ton cos theyre slightey higher and have salisbury axles in thwe back (same as all 109's) but also sometimes in the front aswell.
i would say 109 woild be very lacking offroad, not just turning circle, but also breakover and aproach/departure angles are alot worse than 88.
with lockers a series would be pretty good, the only problem being shafts, however i know peopler that run arb's in series stuff and not had any breakages.
series are good offroad, i competed a fairly standard series 2a for years, untill last year when it got the coil spring treatment, and i wouldent bother using a series for offroad anymore

856lr · Just got MTs Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Odometer: 133

what about a forward control, there wicked Cool

Peter200TDI · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject:

Well, first of all, I will also fit stronger halfshafts and maybe also crown and pinion gears.

Secondly I drive a 90 for now and would like to go back to a series 3 because I want to try something else and because the car is a lot cheaper in my native Denmark than a 90. Here i´m only talking about the road tax. Not insurence.

A Forward Control and a Stage One: they are hard to find in Denmark and i´m also worried about they are hard to find parts for. And frankly, it would be a real petty to bobtail a Stage One.

Would a One Ton 109", Salisbury axle front and rear and with lockers, fitted with 35" tyres be better in terrain than a 88 inch fitted with 265/75 16 tyres and a rear salisbury axle with locker from a 109? Does the extra ground clearance of the One Ton conquer the shorter 88?

And is the leightweight hard to find body parts for? Because I find the LW a nice car and maybe a good compromise between the rought One Ton and more civilian 88".

Best regards Peter

scut44 · Guest

265/75/16 is around 32",
so there is rather a difference from running 35's i would have thought.

Just being nosey but,
How much 'more' does it cost to run your more modern 90,
than selling it
& buying an older vehicle,
modify it & keep it running?
& can you modify in any way you want for your Vehicles annual test, & insurance?
george

Way to go maybe, if this is your thing..

856lr · Just got MTs Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Odometer: 133

if as i imagine landrovers are a bit rare and expensive in denmark, you could always take a long weekend break to england and take a lifesized land rover shaped souveneer home with you! Laughing

series three landy's tend to be between 1 and 2grand for a goodun but they do crop up cheaper.

Peter200TDI · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:51 am Post subject:

Well, i have given it a lot of consideration, but my next Land Rover is a series 3, and not a Defender.

The series 3 cost around 250 punds per year and the Defender 1200 punds in road tax.

So does anybody know how the off road ability of the One Ton is vs. a 88?

I know the 265 tyres are smaller than 35, but the 35`s is only for the One Ton model. I would like to have smaller tyres on a 88 or LW. So my question was more about what where to best offroader, a One Ton long wheel base with 35´ or a 88/LW with the short wheelbase and 265´tyres?

Best regards Peter

scut44 · Guest

There really is not a best in my opinion.

IMO They all do the same thing in the end,
transport you across the ground.
Horses for coarses.

Question

What type of 'offroad' do you mean,
& how far are you traveling?
1. off tar,
2. off or on graded roads/tracks,
3. in bog,
4. in sand,
5. in snow,
6. in mud
7a. in competitions or play, trials, rtv's etc
7b. all of the above at different times of the day or year.

Does it matter to you if you buy a 'Part Time 4 wheel drive vehicle & not 'Permenant 4 wheel drive'?
http://www.bhclrc.org.uk/info/Difflocks_and_etc.htm

The bigger one carry's more & are obviously weigh more, which can be a hinderence in some ground,
but will get you through & often be more comfortable.
The bigger heavier vehicle depending on the engine & fuel used may need to carry more fuel for the same trip.

Shorter lighter ones are not always that more able,
but in some ground will have the advantage.

Question

What vehicles are available to buy
& what do the different types cost in your area?

george

PS, 265/75/16 (31.6" tall) tyres would be a hinderence would it not on the short vehicle, why would you not go for 33" tyres be it a big or small vehicle.!

.

Let Luce · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject:

A standard 1 ton is pretty much useless off road unless it has a lot of weight in it.
Why not try an ex mil 109, plenty of them about, they have slightly longer spring shakles and dropped spring mounts to lift them a bit, and you can fit 900's under them.

A 1 ton will be harder to find and more expensive.

What engine are you looking to run in it? a 2.25 will struggle with gearing on larger tyre sizes.

Why not try something like a 109 with a SOA conversion? Something like this beastie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocNoI8XAuiI

jamie_grieve · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject:

That's how a shortened stage 1 looks. 90.6" wheelbase using a standard series 3 rear prop. I didn't notice you were in Denmark so even touching a chassis with the welder's a no-no there isn't it?

I built up the series three as a durable thing after seeing so many destroyed defender chassis and suspension components running a fleet in Africa. There were no old coilers running around yet there were still a fair few series motors. That and you could be flat out in a defender and be passed by a Toyota on cart springs and there was no way the suspension would let you keep up.
How about buying a later model Santana PS10?
I cut one up and was very impressed at the build quality and thickness of materials.

The one thing really against the 4cyl series is the power. They just don't have enough which is also why they last so long. I have to be honest, the only landrover parts on my stage 1 now are the steering wheel and some body parts.

A V8 lightweight with parabolic springs will out everything a standard 90 so there is quite an overlap in performance too.

Peter200TDI · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject:

Hi

To S44gtw: the terrain is 5-6-7a. Not much competion, but more pay and play.

A series 3 88 or 109 is pretty much the same price. The One Ton and leightweight is more seldom.

About tyres: in my country the entire pattern has to be withind the body of the car. And I would prefer not to put wider flares on a series motor, as I don´t like how that looks on an old Landy. If I have to, the it should only be a small rubber band flare.

But as the car is mainly being build for offroad, then a couple of Insa special track would be my preferred tire. Or maybe a Maxxis tyre.

Climbinchris: The SOA series would be great, but it would never be streetlegal in my country... Over time I would like to fit a 2,5td or 200 DI engine together with a LT77 box together with the original series transfer box. Why do you mean, that the One Ton needs extra weight to work in offroad?

Jamie: That is a nice looking Stage One, I must say. But in Denmark we have very strict rules about modifying chassis, so it would be a very long and difficult way to go. Not impossible though.

About the leightweight: It would make up for a great car, but the Landy would have to be our second car and getting me to work every day (about 30 km per day), so a diesel would be better for my needs. But a leightweight with the 200DI and parabolics - could be great.

I think I will go for a 88 or LW, because troubles with bad departure angles and hard to find lockers for a One Ton. And I guess there is really not that big difference in a 88 and a LW offroad performance - if any.

Best regards Peter

skunk · Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject:

hi peter i have a series 3 88" with 285/75/16 kumho tyres on and they are indside the fenders .. no coments at the mot..
in the mud there is not muths difrens in a 88 or 109 ,,,

jamie_grieve · Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject:

I'd go for the 88 rather than the lightweight then.
The 88's wider body means you can put wheels with a larger offset on and larger tyres won't foul the springs. The 88 has got a very weak rear axle but only as weak as the 90's and 110's and range rover classics. The later diffs even have the holes in them for the track rod protector on the coilers so ignore anyone talking about weak diffs. The UJ's on the front are stronger than the coiler CV's.

Find one with a heavy duty chassis as anything old will be patched up, thin and rotten in places you can't see. There's a lot of good vehicles out there that are off the road now because of the fuel prices.

I'd find one already converted to a Tdi as well. The series engines are 60 years out of date now and there's nothing to be had from them.

Moving the damper mounts is the single best thing you can do to increase the off road performance. I get about 35º of cross axle wheel travel on mine.

A PTO winch will pull all day every day and will out pull anything electric. It will also help the front springs flex. They can be found quite cheap too.

I'd recommend the larger tyres on the 88 and dispute you'r suggestion of smaller ones. Larger tyres transform the off road performance. I use 900 x 16 Petlas on mine. Best compromise tyre I've ever found. Also has enough taper on it to get good steering lock and great in the wet compared to SAT's. Narrower and taller than the metric ones so side slope ability on wet grass for example isn't compromised.

Keep us posted how you go. Smile

Foo1 1njection · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject:

sjmark · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject:

jamie_grieve · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:57 am Post subject:

The stage one's had the same front as the coil sprung ones from the start to accommodate the V8 engine. The radiator wasn't as deep on them which is how the winch goes underneath it. Also the front crossmember sits further forwards than on the earlier series ones. On the one in the photo the entire chassis is a fabricated construction and the two uprights at the front carry the wings and slam panel as the defender set up is super flimsy. They also carry a crossmember to protect the radiator from the winch.

I would suggest the series front is more useful than the later ones if you already have one to ease fitment of the winch and keep the radiator out the way. Also the older series fronts are ten times stronger than the later ones. Otherwise, yes you can just put the later front on the series wings and it'll kinda fit. You'll need the A frame and slam panel from the coil sprung one and something to hold the radiator in place.

Just to continue the hijack, what have you got? Piccies?

Let Luce · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:37 am Post subject:

A 200tdi will fit on the existing engine mounts with no need to modify the chassis and will bolt to a standard series gearbox, it's a dead easy conversion and transforms the vehicle.

A standard 1 ton needs extra weight because it has girders instead of springs, or that's what it feels like anyway.