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running on engine oil
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My council - if not most - accept used engine oil at their recycling centre. They flog if off for recycling for use as fuel for ships' engines or industrial boilers.
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Nathaniel
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of tarmac producing plants use waste oil, use a hell of a lot of it!
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nivaman
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had heard they did but a little unsure if they use it in an engine as fuel.
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matstar89
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im running a diesel on 50-50 mix engine oil, it sits in a drum full of magnets while i'm collecting it, then when i'm ready to use it, it goes through a sock filter 10, 5 then 1, straight into the tank.
runs like a treat, wouldn't even know its in there, doesn't smoke any more than it did, and actually feels smoother running! but that may just be in my mind?!
obviously this is on the farm only, wouldn't dream of cheating the tax man out of any money!!
make of it what you will, but it works well, if i go back to my school days doesnt it all come from the same place? just taken out from a lower level in the refractioning tower or somthing? the oil im using is 5w30 fully synthetic, each with around 10% engine flush treatment added which thins it out abit.

matt
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nivaman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am building up to 50/50 in the Peugeot but it seems to follow what you are saying in that you wouldn't know its in there.
I mix mine with acetone, diesel and put some fuel cleaner in the tank before i fill the tank, runs very well.

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normalbloke
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like your question was answered on traffic cops tonight.
It IS illegal. Also, customs and excise are aware that people are using it to help disguise red diesel and kerosene at roadside checks. While it does cover the visible dyes found in red etc, it does not mask the non visible chemical markers also added. They will sieze your vehicle and make further enquiries.
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nivaman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The god squad in the UK must be very anal about running it?.
This is our emissions laws,

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/rules/vehicle...endment-2009.html

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nivaman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read about Hydraulic oil, transformer oil, atf etc being used.
Has anyone tried these oils?.

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Nathaniel
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydraulic oil runs LOVELY in a diesel engine.
Almost nicer than Diesel...
Plus its usually very clean.

Still illegal on the road tho.

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parrotveasey81
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathaniel wrote:
Hydraulic oil runs LOVELY in a diesel engine.
Almost nicer than Diesel...
Plus its usually very clean.

Still illegal on the road tho.



yes but nivaman is from new zealand,is it illegal over there?? Rolling Eyes

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Nathaniel
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

parrotveasey81 wrote:
Nathaniel wrote:
Hydraulic oil runs LOVELY in a diesel engine.
Almost nicer than Diesel...
Plus its usually very clean.

Still illegal on the road tho.



yes but nivaman is from new zealand,is it illegal over there?? Rolling Eyes


No it isn't.

I'm sorry, I hadn't even noticed it was nivaman asking the question.

Transformer oil reportedly can have a nasty additive in it, however it is sometimes vegetable based...

ATF I've had no dealings with - but think Hyd Oil basically....

Get friendly with somewhere that services things like tractors and hydraulic machines.

A tractor will hold over 100 litres of oil in the back end.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathaniel wrote:
Hydraulic oil runs LOVELY in a diesel engine.
Almost nicer than Diesel...
Plus its usually very clean.

Still illegal on the road tho.


If you use a very small amount per tankful, it it classed as an cleaner/additive?
And would there be any tangible benefit?
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matstar89
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been looking through the hmrc website looking for abit mor info on the laws regarding running on engine oil, I have found this and wanted abit of feedback?? im thinking of writing to them to see if i could run legally with engine oil?

4.2.1 Exempt producers/users

If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:

* any biofuel, or
* any other fuel substitute or additive

within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.

Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.

from: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp...ertyType=document


Many thanks Matt
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normalbloke
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're THINKING of writing a letter? Steady on fella, I'd had to see you on a motivated day!
All joking aside, I'd be interested to see what they say.The incident I saw, as I said earlier, plod had pulled the car, dipped it's tank to find a jet black fluid in there.The plod had never come across it before so called HMRC for advice. They told him on the blower that it is often added to disguise the visible marker dyes.So, even if they deem it legal, they may well just seize the vehicle to prove you haven't got red/kero in there too.
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nivaman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathaniel wrote:
parrotveasey81 wrote:
Nathaniel wrote:
Hydraulic oil runs LOVELY in a diesel engine.
Almost nicer than Diesel...
Plus its usually very clean.

Still illegal on the road tho.



yes but nivaman is from new zealand,is it illegal over there?? Rolling Eyes


No it isn't.

I'm sorry, I hadn't even noticed it was nivaman asking the question.

Transformer oil reportedly can have a nasty additive in it, however it is sometimes vegetable based...

ATF I've had no dealings with - but think Hyd Oil basically....

Get friendly with somewhere that services things like tractors and hydraulic machines.

A tractor will hold over 100 liters of oil in the back end.


No it is not illegal over here as far as i am aware (yet).
As from what i have read, poly chlorinated biphenyls (PCB)s, are what could be in the transformer oil, which have been outlawed since the 70's.
If we could find a fuel flash point that would be similar to diesel then it 'should run'?.

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Nathaniel
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matstar89 wrote:
Ive been looking through the hmrc website looking for abit mor info on the laws regarding running on engine oil, I have found this and wanted abit of feedback?? im thinking of writing to them to see if i could run legally with engine oil?

4.2.1 Exempt producers/users

If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:

* any biofuel, or
* any other fuel substitute or additive

within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.

Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.

from: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp...ertyType=document


Many thanks Matt



No you cannot run legally using engine oil as a fuel because it is hydrocarbon based...
You CAN declare duty on it and use it legally, not hard to do.

Quote:
2.2 Other fuel substitutes
Any liquid that is not hydrocarbon oil, biodiesel, bioblend, bioethanol or bioethanol blend but is used in place of mineral oil to fuel any engine, motor or other machinery is classed as a fuel substitute. Please see paragraph 3.1.1 for further details. This includes:

any liquid used as a fuel in place of mineral oil
any liquid which is used as an additive or extender to a mineral oil, or
any liquid which is used as an additive or extender in a fuel substitute.
However, water is not considered to be a fuel substitute when used in a diesel emulsion when the emulsion is stabilised with additives. Duty is charged only on the non-water part of the fuel.

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nivaman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

parrotveasey81 wrote:



yes but nivaman is from new zealand,is it illegal over there?? Rolling Eyes


Different set of rules here.

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scut44
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched the 'Roadwars' programme last night.

The usually stupid policeman (non traffic) in a Traffic car with a Traffic policeman driver.
All the gear & no idea,
or interest in cars!!! Sad
"i have never heard of that ???? etc etc "
'Pillocks'IMHO.

(when i was young i thought they were trained to act stupid to catch you out, i now know better,
they just dont have the brains to do anything else other than when they retire, they get a pension then a real job sometimes, because they were a in the police Confused )

Pulled the guy & dipped the tank, & faffed about about Black liquid.
Called the HMRC etc,
& siezed the car as Claire Goose explained,
because.

Engine Oil is sometimes used to mask other Re-bated fuels being used.

They told you the guy was done for a Mix of RED & KEROSENE & Engine Oil.
They didnt say the engine oil was illlegal.

We know running on Red & Kerosene is tho.

Wink So 'Roadwars' is not the answer to any traffic offences.
They never ever ever ever say.
'we pulled the guy for carrying/dealing drugs/using illegal fuels/smuggeling contraband or what ever,
we let him go with a warning.
then we raided all his mates because he grasses everyone up so he could get off.'

george

PS keep missing the programme (catching the end) where they bust the guy with the 3 stolen land rovers & motorway maintance vehicle.
hopefully on Sky 3 all week.
Someone must have given them Proper cosher Information & for once they must have acted on it. Rolling Eyes
Instead of their usual, stumbeling on it by accident, because they wernt wearing a seat belt.

.
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normalbloke
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s44gtw wrote:
I watched the 'Roadwars' programme last night.

The usually stupid policeman (non traffic) in a Traffic car with a Traffic policeman driver.
All the gear & no idea,
or interest in cars!!! Sad
"i have never heard of that ???? etc etc "
'Pillocks'IMHO.

(when i was young i thought they were trained to act stupid to catch you out, i now know better,
they just dont have the brains to do anything else other than when they retire, they get a pension then a real job sometimes, because they were a in the police Confused )

Pulled the guy & dipped the tank, & faffed about about Black liquid.
Called the HMRC etc,
& siezed the car as Claire Goose explained,
because.

Engine Oil is sometimes used to mask other Re-bated fuels being used.

They told you the guy was done for a Mix of RED & KEROSENE & Engine Oil.
They didnt say the engine oil was illlegal.

We know running on Red & Kerosene is tho.

Wink So 'Roadwars' is not the answer to any traffic offences.
They never ever ever ever say.
'we pulled the guy for carrying/dealing drugs/using illegal fuels/smuggeling contraband or what ever,
we let him go with a warning.
then we raided all his mates because he grasses everyone up so he could get off.'

george

PS keep missing the programme (catching the end) where they bust the guy with the 3 stolen land rovers & motorway maintance vehicle.
hopefully on Sky 3 all week.
Someone must have given them Proper cosher Information & for once they must have acted on it. Rolling Eyes
Instead of their usual, stumbeling on it by accident, because they wernt wearing a seat belt.

.

I agree with your comments that it may not be illegal.
Hence my second post concerning the masking effects..Looks like if you are running around with it in yoru tank, you're going to get a good looking at.Is it worth the hassle? Not in my opinion.I've got better things to do with my time and money!
I'm not sure why you choose to call the copper in question a pillock? He did the right thing and got further advice, and was right in doing so, seeing as his doing so secured a conviction. Besides, if the copper is a plonker, where does that put the perp in the grand scale of things?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry,
my opinion on him being a pillock was the general behaviour from what was shown on the TV,
nothing to do with the Engine Oil.

Just an air of lacking in common sense,
& the ways of the world & motoring in the UK i thought.
(but was it a bluff, or a double bluff, never know with them)
george


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nivaman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,
My Peugeot is still running diesel/ used engine oil.
When i put my foot flat down i can see a great cloud of black smoke behind me, i suspect a split in the intercooler tank and will need to pull the injectors and clean them, when engine is cold it is a little lumpy, suspect glow plugs on the way out.
Will need to make a heated fuel arrangement but other than that it runs well.

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ivorbiggin
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

parrotveasey81 wrote:
matstar89 wrote:
maybe im just nit picking but would be intresting nether the less.
what about the injector cleaner so many use? how does the law stand with using that? my work throws gallons of the stuff away, we end up using it to clean the oil drainers and use it in the parts cleaner, what if i was to run say a 50 50 mix on the stuff?



you can only run a set amount as a additives,after that it becomes classed as a fuel then you need to pay fuel duty on it.
not sure how much you can use before it becomes a fuel but im sure someone will know/or will google it


We use Tec 2000 inj cleaner at work, the supplier came in and removed all the cans we had, and replaced them with new cans but with a different colour label on, The new colour labels were to show that fuel duty had been paid by Tec 2000. so you can use as much inj cleaner as you like
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nivaman
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have pulled the injectors out of the Peugeot, found number four injector plugged up, took it apart and cleaned it up and refitted it.
Am now running filtered used ATF with diesel and the car is running even better.

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owen_zuki
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I no a couple of people who have played with waste engine oil in land rovers and within 500 mile a 200tdi and a 900 miles a 300 tdi both blocked there injectors up cost them more in injector cleaner than it would have done just running diesel, I do know a guy who runs it in a 2.5td shogun and hasn't really had many problems just adds an injector cleaner every now and then to clean the injectors
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treeboa
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from a posting on a uk veg forum one user has just been bounced on by customs and excise for using engine oil, vans been confiscated and hes awaiting further action

old mineral based atf - dextron type A is a good fuel system cleaner, usual way to use it is as a mix in a new filter and italian tune up, rag the bowels out of it through the gears untill the smoke clears, just finding the stuffs not easy now
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea
"Vans been confiscated"

You can get Van's, Taxi's, Busses/minibusses confiscated for running on Vegtable/recycled oil also.
That also means 'company cars/4x4's'.
They are not hard to tell apart, its how they are insured thats the biggest clue,
'Social,demestic & pleasure' including commuting,
is rather different from 'Social & business' use.

'Commercial /business usage' without paying duty.
Its kind of important to know facts & circumstances,
to know the whole story.

HRMC, 'Bio-fuels' for private use not commercial & the 2500 litre stuff etc..

george


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nivaman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been running my diesel Peugeot on a mix of used engine/atf oil for 6 months and its been running fine.
Have found the atf to be best to run though, i mix it with diesel and am slowly increasing the oil to diesel ratio.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool keep the updates coming
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

update on mats behalf,
He's still running engine oil at the moment but has just moved jobs so probably won't have access to as much waste oil anymore and wont be doing as many miles either, but it still runs ok at the moment!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine still runs ok, i have put a bottle of Redline 85plus to raise the cetane of the oil and it seems to run better.
I do take the car for a good run at times out of town and that helps as well.
Have got 1100 kms from 3/4 of a tank of oil/diesel so economy has not suffered much.

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