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running on engine oil
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matstar89
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Odometer: 85
Location: north devon



PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: running on engine oil Reply with quote

Hi all, im a mechanic with access to LOTS of used engine oil, have read a few bits from a google search about running a car in the same way as wvo, but instead on waste engine oil.
There is also a local doing the same, with no smoke and good performance.
whats your thoughts on this?
the oil i will be using is 5w30fully synthetic, every oil change, a 300ml engine flush is added to the oil, I was also thinking of diluting with abit or either petrol or derv?
I am running a twin tank setup with a heat exchanger, and currently filter down to 5.
was thinking of putting some sort of magnet inside the fuel line?
I drive a 02 nissan terrano 2.7td.
Many thanks in advance, Matt
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i started to look into this,the yanks call it black diesel but i thought you could only use mineral oil not synthetic but could be wrong
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paul_c
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 17 May 2009
Odometer: 1378




PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory its great but used engine oil contains lots of particules of various sizes, mostly metal ones but some carbon too. That amount of rubbish going through the fuel injection pump and injectors, would wear them out in no time. Is the risk of trashing your pump and injectors worth the measly saving promised?
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some good info here
http://www.oiltofuel.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK2cwHK_-7M

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matstar89
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Odometer: 85
Location: north devon



PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm is se what your're saying, im doing £300 a month in derv at the mo so free fuel will be making a HUGE saving! its so tempting but is it worth the risk like your saying??
surely if its filterd enough and put through strong magnets that should make it useable?
6months of motoring will save me more than what i payed for the truck! lol!

intresting what you say about the synthetic oil, hadnt thought of that, i only have access to synthetic oil so hopfully its not the case.

I may try it and see what happens! hmmmmmmmmm
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nivaman
Articulating


Joined: 24 May 2006
Odometer: 929
Location: New Zealand



PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: running on engine oil Reply with quote

matstar89 wrote:
Hi all, im a mechanic with access to LOTS of used engine oil, have read a few bits from a google search about running a car in the same way as wvo, but instead on waste engine oil.
There is also a local doing the same, with no smoke and good performance.
whats your thoughts on this?
the oil i will be using is 5w30fully synthetic, every oil change, a 300ml engine flush is added to the oil, I was also thinking of diluting with abit or either petrol or derv?
I am running a twin tank setup with a heat exchanger, and currently filter down to 5.
was thinking of putting some sort of magnet inside the fuel line?
I drive a 02 nissan terrano 2.7td.
Many thanks in advance, Matt

If i were you i would build or buy a centrifuge to clean the oil.
Mix it with diesel and your good to go, am unsure if the IP can cope, i know the bosch pumps can cope.
I am looking at running this on a Puegeot i have bought.

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Nathaniel
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you declare duty its against the law - end of.

Not to mention the carbon deposits - being a mechanic - you'll know how coked up old smokey oil buring engines get.

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If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out
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treeboa
Articulating


Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Odometer: 527
Location: horden



PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

opening yourself up to a bucket load of problems, there was a bit about it on some the veg burner forums, yes it will work for a short time, your main issue would be the roadside check, hope you have a big deep wallet, the fine will be very high plus what they decide you have used prior to getting caught and the duty payable

sell the oil to a reclaim company and use the cash from that to buy veg oil
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matstar89
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Odometer: 85
Location: north devon



PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i diddnt realise it wasnt legal to be honest, i thought it would come under the same cat as veg oil, being that you can produce 2500ltrs of your own fuel a year?
thatsb abit of a ****** to say the least!!
as for the carbon issue, the majority of cars that i service, and the only oil i have been collecting are from little used petrols, most have only done 2-5000 in the year!
As i read back my posts sound like im trying to convince myself! haha!
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so who on here has used engine oil as fuel and i mean first hand not a mate or like me have read about it,it was not that long ago you would get the same reply if asked about cooking oil Confused but how many people are useing that now Very Happy


i dont plan on useing engine oil but then i never plan'd on useing cooking oil but am now and have been for about 3 years on and off,just intrested about it and the more info i/us can get about it now may help us in the future

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matstar89
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Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Odometer: 85
Location: north devon



PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5star response.
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treeboa
Articulating


Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Odometer: 527
Location: horden



PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk

go on there and do a search on the subject
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treeboa wrote:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk

go on there and do a search on the subject




Confused i try'd a search but cant find anything about running on engine oil as a fuel,can you give me a kick in the right direction with a link to it

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Stal1878
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Odometer: 3320
Location: Somerset


1990 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used I would say 40/60 oil/diesel in the service van, because all we had when we drained the tank on something was those drums. Chucked it in the expert expecting something bad to happen(oil wasn't cleaned or filtered in anyway), but nothing did. We changed the filter a while after expecting it to be gruesome, but you couldn't even tell oil had been through there....
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nivaman
Articulating


Joined: 24 May 2006
Odometer: 929
Location: New Zealand



PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

parrotveasey81 wrote:
treeboa wrote:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk

go on there and do a search on the subject




Confused i try'd a search but cant find anything about running on engine oil as a fuel,can you give me a kick in the right direction with a link to it

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4796371_diesel-fue...ed-motor-oil.html

treeboa
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:33 am

sell the oil to a reclaim company and use the cash from that to buy veg oil

We are charged to deposit used oil at the dump here, i think approx nz$4 per ltr

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treeboa
Articulating


Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Odometer: 527
Location: horden



PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

parrotveasey81 wrote:
treeboa wrote:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk

go on there and do a search on the subject




Confused i try'd a search but cant find anything about running on engine oil as a fuel,can you give me a kick in the right direction with a link to it


there was something about it last year, the uk lads were straight into big fines and poss loss of your vehicle, end the day its illegal to use the stuff in the uk, in theory you should be able to pay the duty on red and use that, the real world says unless you meet the criteria as set down in law your for the high jump, it carries markers in it so just removing the dye is not an option, the few times i have been dipped they check for the markers, even in my veg oil tank, dont know if heating oil carries markers or not-good chance it does though
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

treeboa wrote:
parrotveasey81 wrote:
treeboa wrote:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk

go on there and do a search on the subject




Confused i try'd a search but cant find anything about running on engine oil as a fuel,can you give me a kick in the right direction with a link to it


there was something about it last year, the uk lads were straight into big fines and poss loss of your vehicle, end the day its illegal to use the stuff in the uk, in theory you should be able to pay the duty on red and use that, the real world says unless you meet the criteria as set down in law your for the high jump, it carries markers in it so just removing the dye is not an option, the few times i have been dipped they check for the markers, even in my veg oil tank, dont know if heating oil carries markers or not-good chance it does though



yes we know its illegal to use the stuff on the road in the uk but i would like some more info on this,i will never use it on the road or in my fourtrak but am intrested in a diesel engine running on engine oil.

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scut44
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty online about commercial & home use 'waste oil fired heaters'

Is the vehicle running thing being left unsaid as its not fully covered yet by the HMRC in the UK if no 'rebated' oils were to be used in the mix,
& so is open to loopholes that are possibly worth not drawing to full public attention.
Or is it just already a no no Tax, Revenue & Duty wise when it comes to mineral & mixed use oil ?
www.krolluk.com/waste-oil-heater.htm

george

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scut44
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a thread just now on Devon 4x4 forum,
someone says he is running hydraulic/ engine oil & ATF in a 50/50 deisel mix.
My neighbour used to run all the crap from the garage in his peugeot 405 like this, untill it expired luckily for al the streets washing lines.
www.devon4x4.com/forum

george


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nivaman
Articulating


Joined: 24 May 2006
Odometer: 929
Location: New Zealand



PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious, if your engine is tired and breathes alot and the oil fumes are not enough to make the engine run away, this would be running on engine oil, (ok not all engine oil) would it still be illegal in the UK?.
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treeboa
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nivaman wrote:
Just curious, if your engine is tired and breathes alot and the oil fumes are not enough to make the engine run away, this would be running on engine oil, (ok not all engine oil) would it still be illegal in the UK?.
its not in the tank as fuel, plus to be that worn it wont pass the mot on emissions, a pull for a fuel dips prob going to get your red ticketed off the road when they do a full check because of the excess smoke
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nivaman
Articulating


Joined: 24 May 2006
Odometer: 929
Location: New Zealand



PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't have emmissions checks here in NZ (yet) just a visual check at WOF (mot) time for excessive smoke.
And can as far as i am aware run what we like in our diesel engines as its assumed we are running diesel.

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Just got MTs


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was on one of them Traffic cops shows not long ago, BBC or something,
they stopped a guy in an old passat on the motorway in England and dipped him,
he was running on old engine oil when dipped, they took the car to HMRC and had it for 4wks, fined him big time for unpaid duty.

They also screw you big time if your self employed and go back and dig through your tax returns,

Happened to Bricklayers i know,lucky it was a new van with 12k miles, running on red,hit them for all the duty lost on the 12kmiles,
he had to pay back near 5grand to get the van back with duty and fines!

I would'nt bother , white for me! Shocked
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nivaman
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Joined: 24 May 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't need to worry about that palava in NZ (yet) i daresay it will come.
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matstar89
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Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe im just nit picking but would be intresting nether the less.
what about the injector cleaner so many use? how does the law stand with using that? my work throws gallons of the stuff away, we end up using it to clean the oil drainers and use it in the parts cleaner, what if i was to run say a 50 50 mix on the stuff?
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scut44
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck if it smokes anything like it does with me when i put the correct mixture/ratio as an injection cleaner in a tankfull.
george

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parrotveasey81
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matstar89 wrote:
maybe im just nit picking but would be intresting nether the less.
what about the injector cleaner so many use? how does the law stand with using that? my work throws gallons of the stuff away, we end up using it to clean the oil drainers and use it in the parts cleaner, what if i was to run say a 50 50 mix on the stuff?



you can only run a set amount as a additives,after that it becomes classed as a fuel then you need to pay fuel duty on it.
not sure how much you can use before it becomes a fuel but im sure someone will know/or will google it

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nivaman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am now running engine oil in the Peugeot and it seems to be running fine so far.
Have put some used oil, acetone and diesel in a glass jar and shook it up to see if it would mix correctly first.
I have filtered the used oil, mixed in acetone and diesel and given it a damn good mix up then put that in the tank, idles and runs fine, no blue smoke produced but when i have my foot flat in third gear driving up a slope loading up the engine it produces just a touch more black smoke than it used to.

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paulob1
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Joined: 25 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

better than it being tipped in land fill and poluting the country, you can use a certain amount of duty unpaid oils for no commercial use anyway, cant remember the exact amount but I would have thought that Engine oil already has a duty paid amount already, its certainly more expensive than diesel per litre...
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nivaman
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Joined: 24 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being that i am in NZ i don't need to worry about duty on fuel, it is paid through a thing called road user charges.
We have to pay to drop off used engine oil at the tip so burning it makes sense.

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