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CAD Designs of the New Buggy
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Rich.
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Odometer: 1165
Location: Newcastle


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: CAD Designs of the New Buggy Reply with quote

Well i have spent the last couple of days working on some CAD designs for the new buggy, there still not finished yet but im just looking for abit of info as to what you think. Not too sure about proportions either, those tyres are ment to be 44's and that would make the buggy pretty massive if the scales right so you have to use your imagination abit aswell Smile









Rich

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sainter4x4
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Joined: 07 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lower the bonet so that the shocks come up through the bonet and lower roof lights they will keep getting caugt at winch challanges
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scut44
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice, Smile
Have you checked out Malc Whitbreads latest creation ? 'THUG'
Pure Function & no frills seems to be coming out now in lots of peoples builds.
george


Last edited by scut44 on Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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minimog
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or what about this

also running 44's so to give you a real life idea of size (thats a lt35 lwb van in the background)

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Rich.
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Joined: 13 Apr 2009
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1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting the shocks through the bonnet would just make them get hotter, which I don't want to do. The lights are based on the sand rail/dune buggy look, but they have got that bar around them (all the lines with be 48mm CDS tube, I'm just too lazy to put it all in on the drawing)

Yer, I saw the thug over on devon, I carnt make my mind up on it. I like it from the back but not so much from the front.

And that landy is pretty sick, but still far to landrover based for my liking Very Happy gives a good aspect to soze of the tyres though so I might have to adjust that on the drawing.

Thanks for the input
Rich

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g1oves
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Joined: 08 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres a couple of baz gee`s toy before the paint job.

its really huge and had a lot of work done on it. Very Happy

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minimog
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi g1ove have i met you because i was helping barrie with some of the work on it and its nice to put names to faces
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sainter4x4
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

minimog wrote:
or what about this

also running 44's so to give you a real life idea of size (thats a lt35 lwb van in the background)


was this originaly a tomcat as it doesnt look to far away from mine
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Rich.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get yours jacked up and stick some 44's on it Chris and youl be fine. Well, for the 5 minuts the axles stay intact!
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Mook
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: CAD Designs of the New Buggy Reply with quote

Very nice!









Rich[/quote] Wink

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g1oves
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minimog wrote:
hi g1ove have i met you because i was helping barrie with some of the work on it and its nice to put names to faces


Im sorry mate ! we havn`t met, that day barry was working on his own and i was having some plates bent over the yard for my own project, and we just got talking. who knows maybe one day we will meet Laughing

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minimog
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no probs have to catch you at an offroad day
as for barries yes its a true tomcat running a 300tdi auto and 404 mog axels it started off as a 88" but hes gone to 110" to give it a bit more stability on the 44's

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WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
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clbarclay
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1987 Land Rover Range Rover

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What CAD package are you using and how much are you planning on achieving with the CAD. The basic shape looks reasonable, but before you spend a lot of time modelling the tread on tyres etc. include basic but accurate outlines for major components such as engine, transmission and axles as well as define the suspension geometry, then articulate it to its limits (include steering) to work out just how much space everything will need.

Depending what program your using you may be able to get a person model of the net, though it shouldn't take too long too make one of yourself in the desired driving position.

They, don't need to be pretty, just as long as they represent the main dimensions. Then you can work on a frame design to fit around theses as well as any other components you wish to include.

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Rich.
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Joined: 13 Apr 2009
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1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest i think this is a far as im going to take the drawings. The mian exercise was to get a design i was happy with, and that i could forsee any problems, which i already have, meaning im now going for a traingulated rear 4 link instead of a 1 link.

Rich

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burko_uk
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Joined: 21 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd suggest that you'd be able to do a person in less time than it takes to down load one. The advantage being you can model the person specifically as you, and also put in th ecorrect driving position. Most people models I've seen are either sat on a chair or stood, rather than reclined in a driving seat.

I am biased as it's my job, but a few lunchtimes working on my suspension geometry on the PC made the actual job a success first time Smile
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GeorgeSJ
Just got MTs


Joined: 03 May 2010
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1995 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks awesome! when do you plan to start/finish?
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Rich.
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Joined: 13 Apr 2009
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1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its already started mate, almost a rolling chassis.

http://www.4x4uk.org/forums/index.php?topic=15722.0

Thats the build thread, it needs updating desperatly, il try and do it when i get a chance.

Hopefully get it finished over the next few months.

Rich

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emily howard
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

didnt realise you could get etchasketch for the pc Laughing Laughing
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N.R.G97
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Joined: 09 Dec 2009
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1966 Land Rover Hybrid

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

minimog wrote:
or what about this

also running 44's so to give you a real life idea of size (thats a lt35 lwb van in the background)


i saw this at the awdc xtc, i cant honistly say it was that brilliant, it was to big and wide. the axles broke (not sure what, i was marshaling so didnt realy get a chance to ask what went wrong) about 1/2 way through the day, talking to him the night before the event he said he hasnt completed 1 event yet Shocked so it deffinatly has some reliability problems. it also seems to be like i said before very big, i would have said it would be more suited to rock crawling, it seems to have been based on one of the ammerican rigs....which are good in ammerica but to big and cumbersom for england. thats just my opinion though and i havent seen it winching, obviousley what it was built for

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teamidris
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a good look at it at Cars in the Park the other month. Its going to take a while to sort out, because these things always do. And the axels are 404, so how old are they? 25 years?

To be rude to these trucks, they are huge, underpowered, over complicated and only succeed off road by halving the scale of the terrain.

And too sing their praises, they have low ground pressure, are stable, highly manouverable, and have really high ground clearance. Very Happy

Too big for UK challenge?
Can't argue with that, as we are often too wide with rangy axels against standard zukes Shocked Depends on who laid it out Wink

So not for me. I'm as tall and wide as I can go before I can't fit in the garage or on the trailer Rolling Eyes

So when starting a new build, is it small like polaris, a huge truck, or something in the middle? I guess its more about resourses than what you'ld like to do with it Very Happy

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d86
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im in totall aggreance with ^^^^^^^^^..

for once a totally well scripted and balenced reply...

and all to true..the current car we are getting ready for the new season
seems very much like what you are describing..
i.m from the school of kiss on this,tube buggys are great but it does take the fun out of offroading....as you can only show off for so long... Wink

tony Very Happy

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RobotMan
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was the panhard rod meeting the hydraulic pump on the front of the engine that stopped Barrie's motor at West Harptree. Mods made and it seems to have gone ok at the 90 degree challenge at Manby. Articulation seemed very limited, but that may have been the size of the wheels making it look less.

Big trucks would be fine if there where enough of them to fill an event which could be set out to suit. Too much money and difficulty storing/moving such beasts for the bulk of us.




Link

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boss
Just got MTs


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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1995 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another problem with this truck was the front shaft broke because the bloke (who will remain nameless) cut and welded the shafts in the offset swap instead of getting one machined up, it was then taken into the ART workshop to be givena once over

the axles are probibly 25 years old yes but i stripped my 404s down and they were immaculate inside! one of the front hubs have had a rebuild at somepoint but the other had been untouched, as had the rear.stripped down my 15 year old landrover axles and they were full of ****! they had both been rebuilt at somepoint and are far inferior to 404s in evereyway. rob tunnah leaves the difflocks in with these axles and thats with 4WS and 44" boggers....no problems

unreliable? i dont think so, jsut depends on how there built. fitting 404s is a bit of a headache when fitting to landrovers as the front needs re building and mogs dont use propshafts as such, but if you fit them correctly then they can out perform anything else you can put on your truck for the money.

i am in agreement that some of these things are too big(the above with a 110 wheelbase, 60" wide axles and 44" boggers). but it has also been said that where they find things easy a normal truck would find difficult and viseversa. there are now super challenges to suite this sort of motor but alot of them go overseas, ladoga, coratia ect
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Nobby
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres mine
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d86
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nobby very nice.

me the other weekend..

lets play spot the difference.... Laughing
i bet your is alot lighter.....

tony Very Happy

yes it is before anyone ask's

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Kitesurf
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1994 Toyota Surf

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought you had been a bit quiet Nobby. Is that a scratch built frame or have you adapted an existing one? Either way it is a nice piece of kit.
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teamidris
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a definite dislike for axels with epicyclic hubs? They've replaced portals and bull-gear set ups, and have excellent ground clearance due to the small amount of diff ratio required.
Renault M210 fire engine has them, and they look pretty slick on that.
It could just be that none are available second hand?

In plant and agri we've been testing them 'heavily' for years. Some even had oil imersed brakes Very Happy

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jamie_grieve
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is there a definite dislike for axels with epicyclic hubs?


I reckon yes but only because they're not found on 4x4's and are outwith the scope of most peoples normal travels.

How much would an oil immersed braked, difflocked front axle from say, a light tractor with all the hydraulic steering right down to the engine driven pump be worth, both financially and in time saving to the builder?

I reckon one bad thing is most have the diff in the middle but for sure there's some that don't.

Often they're ductile iron and cant be welded so have to look for fabricated construction.

Great choice of off road tyres!!

I can't wait to get back to play with those Rockwells!

I was playing with a few Multidrive tractors a while ago. You any experience with these? Full chassis frame like a truck but coil springs on A-frames front and rear. If anyone ever wanted to build a kick ass monster truck then that's what to start with!

Sorry Rich, back on topic....
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N.R.G97
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1966 Land Rover Hybrid

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamidris wrote:

Too big for UK challenge?
Can't argue with that, as we are often too wide with rangy axels against standard zukes Shocked Depends on who laid it out Wink


yes theres a bit of that going on where i compete Evil or Very Mad i swear its set out for suzuki's Evil or Very Mad
Quote:
another problem with this truck was the front shaft broke because the bloke (who will remain nameless) cut and welded the shafts in the offset swap instead of getting one machined up, it was then taken into the ART workshop to be givena once over

i have to say i heard about that, i did have my doubts


Link

it was quite funny hearing that through the radio Laughing Laughing

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clbarclay
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamie, we bought a second hand axle including steering ram, but no obital valve or pump for a 12 year old medium size tractor a few years ago fro £500 from a breaker. I suspect their biggest probelm would be weight. tractors need to be heavy to be able to transmit the power to the ground at slow speeds. Most front axles are cast as a result.

Tractor epyciclic components may be of use on a custom axle casing, but I expect that whole tractor axles (even of little tractors) would be like using the big rockwell axles and excessively heavy and awkward unless you plan on running some masive tyres. On the pluss side though most have around a 55 degree steering angle (double UJ Cv joints) which puts most 4x4 axles to shame.

As well as tractors you could consider loading shovels, but again these axles are built for much heavier vehicles.

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