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Starting from scratch
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> 4x4s -> Custom Builds
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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Starting from scratch Reply with quote

Right the story so far, after trialing the trayback at tong it aquired alot of body damage (managed to win though).



So it was time for a rethink. I started off thinking new doors and wings from a donor vehicle i had cage the front half and play with the travel on the front end. That the developed into changing wheelbases and trying to get the engine further back to centre the weight more. I then saw this lovely ausie built



So this moved the goal posts somewhat. So back to the drawing board and we had decided on building from the ground up was going to be easier than trying to adapt an existing car.

Some of the things i wanted were

Nice low centre of gravity with the engine behind the front axle
Good amount of power (at this stage i was looking at turboing the 4.2i nissan engine)
Good amount of travel
Shrink the nissan wheelbase by a good chunk (117")
A tough exteria so plenty of tube
Hopefully keep the look of a patrol well slightly at least
Run a 40" tire with out being stupidly high

After looking into the turbo conversions and not being too impressed with the power gain to cost ratio I looked else where and found this



4.0 v8 with an easy acheivable 280 bhp for very little money picked up nice and cheap.

Next was lots of johnny joints an x-link joint
I then got on to a very helpful chap at inchworm gear in the states for the adapter to run a hilux t case behind the lexus box
Also ordered some shiny bits from Paul at macsport which I am very happy with



18" travel with dual speing hardware and all at a very reasonable price.

Well thats an introduction for you over the coming months i will keep posting the progress. The build has already started and i shall post some progress pics soon

Hope you enjoy them and my build diary

Danny

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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good, and really intrigued to see how its gonna look.
Re center weight. I am not really a fan of this. Unless you have a need for speed and do a lot of high speed events, there is little point to it. On an offroad vehicle that see's many steep inclines/declines, the best setup is ofcourse low COG and as much weight as possible at either end, NOT in the middle. Ofcourse same weight at either end is optimal. Othewise it will tend to wheelie up the inclines and do and endo on the declines. Not trying to **** on your parade at all, each to their own. I just wanted to make sure you have thought it through.

On my brothers ninety we sat his 200tdi way at the back in the engine compartment, but it was a beast to get uphill as it wheelied all the time and bumping it over obstacles just send the front end skyhigh! So initially we put further forward and the offroad feeling of the car is way better.

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your point but out of the vehicles i have used which there have been a few the most balanced and capable is the current mahindra based vehicle (much better than it sounds lol) I carrys little or no weight out side its wheel base and the cog is nice and low. The trouble with having the engine forward is that it ends up high. Not only that but as the front of the car climbs off camber onto something the weight makes the vehcle roll into the camber. With the weight further back and lower your front articulation gets to do its job and keep the vehicle more neutral and leave for well weighted wheels to find grip.

Cheers for the input though

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steve_n
Articulating


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Odometer: 589
Location: Driffield (East Yorkshire)



PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like it's going to be a capable truck mate Smile should be starting mine this summer Wink
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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right i have had a play and we are in luck. Finally we have some pics

Firstly after many scraped knuckles and lots (and i mean lots) of wires the engine and box are out of the lexus

Next i split the old housing off the rear of the gearbox whilst having a blonde moment and spilling oil on the floor

After a little clean up and a tray to catch the rest I slid the housing off fully

More pics to come shortly

Danny

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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was then time to un wrap the shiny bits which we all love. Here is the whole kit from inch worm gear in the states who i can highly recommend for there communication and knowledge. This kit allows the Hilux t/case to be run behing the 2wd drive lexus box.

As you can see the kit comes with every nut and bolt you could ever need aswell as very good instructions.

As you can see this adapter is also clockable meaning you can rotate it 10 degrees and bring the fron prop a little higher a nice touch i thought.

Here you can see the adapter even accomodates the speed sensor for the auto boxes brain.

I then bolted the first part of the adaprt on you can see the speed sensor lined up perfectly. The i slid the shaft on the splines taking it from 23 to 21 to suit the t/case.

On with the second part of the adapter this incorporates the foward shift type t/case which is good as top shifts are hard to come by now. As you can see its beautifully machined out to fit the breaing races.

Here is the finished product a little lengthy but still a good set up that i am happy with no bodged bits all just bolted together nicely. Fingers crossed very strong too.

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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here comes the fun stuff as it starts to take some shape. We have decided on two short little chassis rails out of box then work out from there. Here you can see the chassis rails with the lower arms attached

Here is a better picture of the lower arms all four are the same size and come with johnny join on one end and td5 discovery chassis end radius arm bushes. They are a nice sturdy bush. I Had nice thick sleeves machined for them to sit in. Also notice a slight off set in the bush to help keep the arms as flat as possible.

The rail is upside down here and the angle iron you see is whats going to atach the belly pan/gearbox x-member to the chassis rails. All holes are sleeved in the box section.

Here are two x-members only tacked as at this point we are not sure on where the gearbox will allow these to sit.

James has built a nice build table to keep eveything nice and flat it has adjustable legs to get it level. the rails are tacked on ready to start

It was the time to strip every thing off the y61 axles getting the ready for there new brackets.

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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We now have lower arms attached to the axles giving you some idea of its size.

the arms will be sat a little flatter than shown here as these tires are not as big as the ones coming but the chassis is sat at its ride height with an impressive 22 inches clearence i might add.

This is the gearbox x-member mounted with bushes either side nice and strin i hope you agree.

It even has a nice touch for the filler plug to still be easy to access.

This is now more like what the actual x-members are to look like there will be a nice belly plate under this and plenty of cross bracing and gussets.

First little hurdle is that because the engine is car derived it had a sump with the bulk at the front which as we found out is right in the way of the upper links for the suspension on the front so off it comes and it will be replaced with a more conventional looking 4wd type sump more on this later.

You can see here the engine and box lowered in to somewhere close to where they will live. The front chassis rail is mocked up once again much bracing and triangulation to come before anyone worries about strength.

The chassis rail is drilled out ready for a nice spot weld to go with the external welds at the end

More to follow

Hope you enjoy the work so far

Thanks for looking

Danny

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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drool Drool Drool Drool Danny, this looks like it's going to be an awesome build! i'm looking forward to seeing it all come together.
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www.suzukiclubuk.co.uk
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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks Scottie. Im very excited to this time im building it right first time well thats the plan no more bodged motors to suit what im trying to do.

Here is the bracket for the uper links on the front which im really pleased with. As you can see they are at the same angle as the arm will point as against having angled bushes this should all help keep the 4 link sturdy and give no sideways movement.

At the axle end we have gone for a good seperation to keep the axle wrap and distress at bay. the other side will be mounted very close then the two mounts will be tied in and braced.

Here you van see the nice shape of the bracket and also the threaded bar being used to make dialing the front axle easier. 27mm bar should be strong enough i think.


Thats it for now guys but more to come next week maybe even some flex pics to give us some idea on shock positions etc.

Danny

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Roofus
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Odometer: 171
Location: Dublin, Ireland


1992 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We Sir....are truely not worthy! Cool
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www.leinster4x4.ie
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Rizla 1
Articulating


Joined: 21 May 2007
Odometer: 656
Location: Berkshire



PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm impressed fella Applause

With the lexus engine how come you went the route of using the lexus box and conversion ? I ship a good few of these lexus 400's to Scandinavia as they can't get the engines or the cars there and they use surf auto ? bolts straight on so they say makes cheap power.

There's a lexus in my garden if anybody wants one Cool

Look forward to seeing more Danny
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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments guys.

I used the conversion so that i got the stronger case and had the choice of loweing the t/case also have the option to double up if rock crawling or serious winching ever takes my fancy.

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the boo crew
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Odometer: 345
Location: BOLTON, LANCASHIRE



PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is a Lexus engine really a direct fit to a Surf auto box? It looks like its going to be a fair bit of kit Danny looking forward to seeing the finished article. Keep up the good work.
__________________________________
Old enough to know better
Not too old to give it a try anyway
'98 2.8 hilux crew cab, '97 Colorado RIP and another '97 Collie sorted
'01 hilux 2.4td crew cab
Boo!
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VERY Nice work, keep up the quality and eye for detail, should make a nice motor
__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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steve_m
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Odometer: 107




PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny,
You say the engine and box is a little lengthy, do you have an actual measurement? If you do it would be appreciated, I like the idea of this combo but doubt I could fit it in to the truck I have.
Regards,
Steve
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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the surf gerabox will fit the engine and the t/case will fir the box so there are two good options. Although the lexus box has 5 clutch packs to the surfs 2 so i would recomend keeping that.

I did have a measurement but i will remeasure for you. You can make it shorter by using the surf t/case.

Danny

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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catching up with threads like these reminds me what a wealth of talent we have here.

Lovely work and makes me even more desperate to get my garage built and my projects back under after almost a year

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Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him.
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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your kind words. Although the car is my brain child I cant take the credit for the outstanding level of fabrication that goes to James Sunderland of Sunderland 4x4. I currently share his trials vehicle and im going to return the favour once this motor is finished.

There is some more progress but you will have to wait until tomorrow when i have chance to write it up.

Danny

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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This really does make me want to start a ground up buggy build once the SJ has been finished Cool

So you're going 4 link front and by the way you have purchased an X-joint I presume 3 link A-frame on the rear? Any reason for this set up over 4 link front and rear?

That's if i've guessed right anyway Laughing

Scottie

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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this to be honest i was not going double triangulated at first on the front it was going to be 5 link with panhard. Then i took the decision to buy the lovely shocks off Paul at macsport this meant steering joints were not going to cut it with the amount of travel. The joints had already been bought for the 5 link so with some rethinking to be done it was the double triangulated 4 link that was the obvious choice. I prefer the three link (a-frame top) as its simple and strong with less worry about getting the angles and geomotry right. But on the front i had the joints already and i doubt an x-joint would have fit in the room we had. So i didnt bother buying another joint and having two spare johnny joints we just used the stuff we already had.

If you get me

Danny

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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I get you! I think you're better off with the triangulated 4 link anyway as there was a guy called Timmy on pirate who did a 5link panhard set up and it didn't flex at all! They have the same problems associated with radius arms and act against each other under articulation. more of an on road set up IMO.
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Odometer: 7480
Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScottieJ wrote:
Yeah I get you! I think you're better off with the triangulated 4 link anyway as there was a guy called Timmy on pirate who did a 5link panhard set up and it didn't flex at all! They have the same problems associated with radius arms and act against each other under articulation. more of an on road set up IMO.


the rear of my fourtrak is a 5 link panhard set up and that flex's nice antill the bushes bind and the links are short

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Angry parrot fabrications,check me out on Facebook
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Rich.
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Odometer: 1165
Location: Newcastle


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScottieJ wrote:
Yeah I get you! I think you're better off with the triangulated 4 link anyway as there was a guy called Timmy on pirate who did a 5link panhard set up and it didn't flex at all! They have the same problems associated with radius arms and act against each other under articulation. more of an on road set up IMO.


It was Timmy that made the 5 link to be fair! Very Happy That truck was pretty bad!

Rich

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SwiftFab - Custom built Vehicles, Modifications and restorations, get intouch for details.

Lifes simple, You make choices and you dont look back.
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big_patrol
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Odometer: 2620
Location: Rossendale


1998 Nissan patrol

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we have progress so here are a few pics to catch up with.

I took a better photo of one of the top links and the adjustment.


Next you can see the lower link bracket is fully welded and the chassis leg is tied into the centre box section through the spot welds and with the bracket.


We then flexed it up to make sure there were no issues. Around 30 inces of difference in hub height Shocked so combine that with a similar figure on the rear and i dont think we will be struggling for travel.


There was doh! The pinion nose was gong to be very close on full articulation to the upper link. Not wo worry as the sump clearance is what we were worried about and it turned out there was loads of room. So we have just moved the axle mount for the top link up around two inches. So James decided to incorperate a nice box section brace to do the job.


one from the other side


A nice little brace.


Then he has braced the lower link brackets on the axle with sheet and some sexy dimple dies.


The centre cross member and gearbox mount is all braced up and triangulated. We like strong.


A picture of the welding.


Lastly we offered the wings and bonnet up just to get straight in our heads some of the size and shape its taking. Give you a little idea of the size i think. The bonnet is yet to go under the knife and the grill will be a little different but you will have to watch this space.


Hope you carry on enjoying the build.

Danny

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Stal1878
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Odometer: 3320
Location: Somerset


1990 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good, very nice welding.
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Rich.
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Odometer: 1165
Location: Newcastle


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful work mate

Rich

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SwiftFab - Custom built Vehicles, Modifications and restorations, get intouch for details.

Lifes simple, You make choices and you dont look back.
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will4x4
Articulating


Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Odometer: 705
Location: Surrey



PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking good re the - nice box section brace to do the job.

i would definitely add more bracing here like a plate all the way along, so more weld to the axle casing as there is a huge amount of force here - people do rip them off.
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Diesel Destroyer
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Odometer: 6921
Location: Under the truck covered in EP90



PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me like!! Applause
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Link to my current project build thread

http://muddybuggy.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=45&start=80
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G Wizz
Just got MTs


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Odometer: 356
Location: left a bit, little bit more, just there, you found me.



PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must be very satisfying being able to build your own truck, as well being talented enough to do it, envious am I
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