View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: Tyres Tyres Tyres
|
|
|
Hi guys,
Seriously considering investing in a set of brand new tyres rather than keep juggling out of round re-cut specials!
So, whats the maximum size that can be fitted to a standard mog 404 without too much fouling?
Im currently running 12.5r20 with no fouling issues at all and the gearing is fine, I would like to go to 14.5r20 purely for the width, does this cause any front fouling or clearance issues on diameter?
I only have 9" rims but I will be bead locking.
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
|
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
What's it going to be used for?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
|
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
The largest with no mods are supposed to be 12.00r20's or so I was told when I got mine.
They are 44". I've a feeling that the poor old engine is going to be a little lacking once they are fitted.
There's a guy either on here or benzworld who's got 47's or something fitted with a cab lift.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
paul_c wrote: | What's it going to be used for? |
98% Off Roading - The rest is just getting to and from site[s] - going along the Supreme [bkt] mpt569 route I think, I have them on the back and they grip very well.
dxmedia wrote: | The largest with no mods are supposed to be 12.00r20's or so I was told when I got mine.
They are 44". I've a feeling that the poor old engine is going to be a little lacking once they are fitted.
There's a guy either on here or benzworld who's got 47's or something fitted with a cab lift. |
Hmmm, for once I am going to try and avoid the mod route! [famous last words!] so I dont really want to do a cab lift.
At the back of my mind I know the 12.5r20 I am currently wearing are just about right on diameter - engine is relatively happy. Its just the width Im after - recently when off roading when a mate who has a CJ Jeep hybrid with mog404 axles and 44" boggers that are 16" wide - we were side by side on some boggy ground - I was sinkiing in about 7" - he was just leaving tread depth marks - ground pressure was his best friend.
One desperate justification for the bigger tyres is that im about to fit megasquirt to it (got the bits ready and I have done about 5 squirts previous) so in theory I should see some slight power gains.
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
|
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
What kind of off roading? Agri or just playing around?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
paul_c wrote: | What kind of off roading? Agri or just playing around? |
Im one of the directors of KORC (Kirton Off Road Centre) so it does a lot of running around in an old cement quarry, marshalling and recovery with a few days of pure playing around.
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
|
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
istruggle2gate11 wrote: | paul_c wrote: | What kind of off roading? Agri or just playing around? |
Im one of the directors of KORC (Kirton Off Road Centre) so it does a lot of running around in an old cement quarry, marshalling and recovery with a few days of pure playing around. |
No worries, I thought you were using it for agri, in which case many Unimogs are used more for high speed transport than in the field. For tractors, there's about 5 different styles of tyre regularly used for different field work operations, plus a few manufacturers do tyres designed as a compromise between road haulage and field work. Agri use typically demands tyres which are long lasting and cause minimal soil compaction, traction is assumed and normally a non-issue.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
normalbloke Articulating
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633
|
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:59 am Post subject:
|
|
|
If you are just using it for pay and play work, I'd look at something more aggressive than the BKT.
I bought a U1000 a few years ago, and had BKTs put on.I was a little nervous about running a full bar type agri tyre( ignorance).When the BKTs ran out,I managed to find a cheap and cheerful new set of TVS Eurogrips(405/70/20). They have been brilliant.The grip is amazing,and on road they perform better than the BKTs ever did,running cooler and quieter.They are G speed rated for the Mog (90kph).I got on so well with the TVS tyres that I bought another full set to keep in the garage for when my current ones run out.
Good luck.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am Post subject:
|
|
|
normalbloke wrote: | If you are just using it for pay and play work, I'd look at something more aggressive than the BKT.
I bought a U1000 a few years ago, and had BKTs put on.I was a little nervous about running a full bar type agri tyre( ignorance).When the BKTs ran out,I managed to find a cheap and cheerful new set of TVS Eurogrips(405/70/20). They have been brilliant.The grip is amazing,and on road they perform better than the BKTs ever did,running cooler and quieter.They are G speed rated for the Mog (90kph).I got on so well with the TVS tyres that I bought another full set to keep in the garage for when my current ones run out.
Good luck. |
Thats interesting normal bloke, thanks for the heads up, I am more than happy to go Agri if they behave something like ok on the road
Any more cheap and cheerfull sets knocking around?
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
normalbloke Articulating
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633
|
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:05 am Post subject:
|
|
|
istruggle2gate11 wrote: | normalbloke wrote: | If you are just using it for pay and play work, I'd look at something more aggressive than the BKT.
I bought a U1000 a few years ago, and had BKTs put on.I was a little nervous about running a full bar type agri tyre( ignorance).When the BKTs ran out,I managed to find a cheap and cheerful new set of TVS Eurogrips(405/70/20). They have been brilliant.The grip is amazing,and on road they perform better than the BKTs ever did,running cooler and quieter.They are G speed rated for the Mog (90kph).I got on so well with the TVS tyres that I bought another full set to keep in the garage for when my current ones run out.
Good luck. |
Thats interesting normal bloke, thanks for the heads up, I am more than happy to go Agri if they behave something like ok on the road
Any more cheap and cheerfull sets knocking around? |
Not that I know of! If I had a quid for ever PM asking where I got mine from! It was just right place right time,hence buying a second set when they came up.They are never available when you need them.
Atkinson Vos have a set of Mitas AG for £834. Those are 405/70/20.
They are almost too cheap for AV,and I suspect they may not be speed rated.Send Simon there an email and he'll clarify.
http://www.unimogs.co.uk/sparesphoto.asp?ch=5&ref=TY0015
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
s.frimodt Just got MTs
Joined: 08 Sep 2009 Odometer: 170
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Hi Rog.
If you REALLY don't want to lift your cab you will not be able to fit anything wider than the 12.5 BUT the perfect tyre in my mind for a 404 is the Agri style 405/70-20". You have to lift your cab a tad, but not much otherwise they will destroy the underside of it! I have mate who runs these tyres on his 404 and they perform very well compared to the 12.5. But again nowhere near my 14.00
You can see his Mog here as it is currently for sale:
http://www.dba.dk/404-aarg-1967-unimog-min/id-65613942/billeder/1/
__________________________________ Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.
'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades |
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:02 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
s.frimodt wrote: | Hi Rog.
If you REALLY don't want to lift your cab you will not be able to fit anything wider than the 12.5 BUT the perfect tyre in my mind for a 404 is the Agri style 405/70-20". You have to lift your cab a tad, but not much otherwise they will destroy the underside of it! I have mate who runs these tyres on his 404 and they perform very well compared to the 12.5. But again nowhere near my 14.00
You can see his Mog here as it is currently for sale:
http://www.dba.dk/404-aarg-1967-unimog-min/id-65613942/billeder/1/ |
Hi SØren,
I have to say, on cosmetics they look the part, the width just "looks" right. You have raised a few questions now!
What wheels does he have?
Are they offset at all?
Does he lose any steering lock?
How much of a lift?
Thanks for that, how good does that mog look - all blinged up - thats me busy this coming winter!
What engine is he running, I saw the intake plenum - some merc diesel?
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
s.frimodt Just got MTs
Joined: 08 Sep 2009 Odometer: 170
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Hehe yes it does look cool, but you should see it in the flesh to really appreciate it
Right on to your abundance of questions
First off wheels. Those are the 11" wide ones from the drumbraked 406/416, my standard 9" with beadlocks share the same with of 11"
So the offset is the same as the 404 9" wheels
No you loose no steering lock, actually there is quite a lot of room for tyres when at full lock. My 14.00 barely scrubs the chassis.
Well.. as far as I know he has lifted the cab a bit more than me. But that is not necessary and there are a good reason why I did not raise mine as much. I raised mine so that the plate under gearstick barely rubs with the gaitor. If you raise it as much as him you have to cut this plate up and put some sort of cloth under it in order not to just have a big hole.
That is what he did and it doesn't look pretty at all.
So what you basically do is: Loosen the six bolts that holds your cab to the chassis. lift it vertically until the gearstick rubs. measure how high you can go. Now afterwards you will have to tilt the steering column back up (easily done) and take out the cover plate and gaitor at your pedals. This have to be modified slightly because the clutch pedal moves in an arc. If you don't do it your clutch will either stay down, or not be able to be pressed when you flex the chassis. (trust me, been there)
And engine, yes he is running the standard poke-less OM617 and running it on ripes-oil? is it called that? just to absolutely take out every last bit of power
Not a conversion I would make, atleast not without having a turbo on it.
Was that answer enough?
__________________________________ Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.
'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades |
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
s.frimodt wrote: | Hehe yes it does look cool, but you should see it in the flesh to really appreciate it
Right on to your abundance of questions
First off wheels. Those are the 11" wide ones from the drumbraked 406/416, my standard 9" with beadlocks share the same with of 11"
So the offset is the same as the 404 9" wheels
No you loose no steering lock, actually there is quite a lot of room for tyres when at full lock. My 14.00 barely scrubs the chassis.
Well.. as far as I know he has lifted the cab a bit more than me. But that is not necessary and there are a good reason why I did not raise mine as much. I raised mine so that the plate under gearstick barely rubs with the gaitor. If you raise it as much as him you have to cut this plate up and put some sort of cloth under it in order not to just have a big hole.
That is what he did and it doesn't look pretty at all.
So what you basically do is: Loosen the six bolts that holds your cab to the chassis. lift it vertically until the gearstick rubs. measure how high you can go. Now afterwards you will have to tilt the steering column back up (easily done) and take out the cover plate and gaitor at your pedals. This have to be modified slightly because the clutch pedal moves in an arc. If you don't do it your clutch will either stay down, or not be able to be pressed when you flex the chassis. (trust me, been there)
And engine, yes he is running the standard poke-less OM617 and running it on ripes-oil? is it called that? just to absolutely take out every last bit of power
Not a conversion I would make, atleast not without having a turbo on it.
Was that answer enough? |
That certainly was answer enough, thank you!
Im converted to the 405/70/20's route
Now to answer your question - Rape Seed Oil
Thanks again.
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Well dont say I dont listen to you guys!
One set of 405/70/20 Mitas 01's courtesy of ebay £220 for all 4 - happy at that.
Just need some new tyre levers now!
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
|
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
although its probably too late, what about a set of twin wheels. ive got them on my tractor and it floats over anything (nearly) 16.9 R24 and then 18.4 R38 on the back.so the front is about 36" and the back about 42"
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
|
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Twins are great but you need to watch total vehicle width stays within the regs. Also some USA tractors (different laws on weights there, and vehicle widths on public roads) are running triples on the rear for high draught work.
In the UK, where width is an issue and heavy/wet land is often an issue too, there is a subtle trend towards tracks rather than wheels/tyres. This is becoming commonplace on combines, and no doubt will filter gradually to (initially top spec, 300hp+) tractors.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
|
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
yes, true, but duals are easy enough to drop off for road use(especially R24's) and put back on for hardcore offroading
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
normalbloke Articulating
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633
|
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
istruggle2gate11 wrote: | Well dont say I dont listen to you guys!
One set of 405/70/20 Mitas 01's courtesy of ebay £220 for all 4 - happy at that.
Just need some new tyre levers now! |
They look much better! Be sure to post when you have them on.
Spookily I have just removed 4 military tyres this morning from a set of disc rims that I am changing the offset on.That was harder work than mounting my 405s.All done with tyre levers etc.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:53 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
normalbloke wrote: | istruggle2gate11 wrote: | Well dont say I dont listen to you guys!
One set of 405/70/20 Mitas 01's courtesy of ebay £220 for all 4 - happy at that.
Just need some new tyre levers now! |
They look much better! Be sure to post when you have them on.
Spookily I have just removed 4 military tyres this morning from a set of disc rims that I am changing the offset on.That was harder work than mounting my 405s.All done with tyre levers etc. |
Will do normal bloke, went round to a mates today (on the forums as King CJ), we got one on the spare wheel - same as you, tyre levers, lump hammer, sledge hammer and a lot of sweat!
As beggars cannot be choosers and patience is something I do not have, we fitted it to a 9" rim! Surprisingly it does not look too bad, not perfect by any means but useable - or having a go until I find the funds to get some bead locks laser cut.
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
normalbloke Articulating
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633
|
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
If you have managed to squeeze them onto a 9" rim I doubt you'll debead them easily, as they will always be pushed hard up againts the rims.I had 14.5 BKT on 11" rims and was always running into issues with foreign objects in the beads and de-beading.That has yet to happen with the 405s on 11"
Can you give me a bit more info on the Mitas?How many plies?What letter speed rating are they?Were they new?.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mr Tyre Mr Tyre
Joined: 17 Jun 2002 Odometer: 4957 Location: Darlington Co Durham
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:30 am Post subject:
|
|
|
normalbloke wrote: | If you have managed to squeeze them onto a 9" rim I doubt you'll debead them easily, as they will always be pushed hard up againts the rims.I had 14.5 BKT on 11" rims and was always running into issues with foreign objects in the beads and de-beading.That has yet to happen with the 405s on 11"
Can you give me a bit more info on the Mitas?How many plies?What letter speed rating are they?Were they new?. |
Sorry to butt into you posting, but i hope this helps:
MPT 01
14 ply rating
B speed rating (50 Km/h app 31 mph)
If you want G rated ones the ones to look for are the Mitas MPT 03.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
normalbloke Articulating
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:24 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Thanks Mr Tyre,I thought they might be lower speed rated.Not knocking the o/p, but thought they were a stonking deal at that price.Normally anything 405 sized with a G rating fetches silly dosh.I suspect for what he has planned for them they will be fine.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mr Tyre Mr Tyre
Joined: 17 Jun 2002 Odometer: 4957 Location: Darlington Co Durham
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:08 am Post subject:
|
|
|
That size is used on teleporters and Terex,Fermec and Case industrial tractors, my guess is that someone has bought one and had new tyres fitted on.The top speed on most of the above isn't that high thats probably why the B rated ones were fitted or someone wanted to keep the price down, being that there is a big difference in price as you stated in your post.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
s.frimodt Just got MTs
Joined: 08 Sep 2009 Odometer: 170
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:02 am Post subject:
|
|
|
These are 405's on 9" rims aswell. Seen this IRL and it doesn't look silly at all! ofcourse 11" looks way cooler, but this still is a great visual upgrade.
http://www.unimog.dk/billeder/soerenrs/404.4.l.jpg
Good work, remember to show pics when they're under it!
__________________________________ Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.
'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades |
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:02 am Post subject:
|
|
|
If you have managed to squeeze them onto a 9" rim I doubt you'll debead them easily, as they will always be pushed hard up againts the rims.I had 14.5 BKT on 11" rims and was always running into issues with foreign objects in the beads and de-beading.That has yet to happen with the 405s on 11"
Can you give me a bit more info on the Mitas?How many plies?What letter speed rating are they?Were they new?.
Back to top
Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 3465
Location: Darlington Co Durham
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:30 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
normalbloke wrote:
If you have managed to squeeze them onto a 9" rim I doubt you'll debead them easily, as they will always be pushed hard up againts the rims.I had 14.5 BKT on 11" rims and was always running into issues with foreign objects in the beads and de-beading.That has yet to happen with the 405s on 11"
Can you give me a bit more info on the Mitas?How many plies?What letter speed rating are they?Were they new?.
Sorry to butt into you posting, but i hope this helps:
MPT 01
14 ply rating
B speed rating (50 Km/h app 31 mph)
If you want G rated ones the ones to look for are the Mitas MPT 03.
Back to top
normalbloke
Just got MTs
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Odometer: 391
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:24 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Mr Tyre,I thought they might be lower speed rated.Not knocking the o/p, but thought they were a stonking deal at that price.Normally anything 405 sized with a G rating fetches silly dosh.I suspect for what he has planned for them they will be fine.
Back to top
Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed
Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 3465
Location: Darlington Co Durham
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:08 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That size is used on teleporters and Terex,Fermec and Case industrial tractors, my guess is that someone has bought one and had new tyres fitted on.The top speed on most of the above isn't that high thats probably why the B rated ones were fitted or someone wanted to keep the price down, being that there is a big difference in price as you stated in your post.
Guys, all the above is correct, tyre information etc.
Has anybody seen these?
Just spoken to the guy, he wants offers over £450 which is still pretty good as it includes wheelshttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/unimog-wheels-tyres-x4-portal-axle-405-70R20-landrover-/190392686603?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarParts_Acc_Wheels_tyres_Rims_Car_Wheels_ET&hash=item2c5449d80b
__________________________________ Rog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
normalbloke Articulating
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:58 am Post subject:
|
|
|
That is one hell of a quote! What happened there?
Well, £450 is a bargain.The rims would cost you that from most indies.The XM47 are regarded as the best bar tread agri tyre for Mogs, fullstop.I think they are £600+ each new.The only thing I don't know about is how worn they are(ie how much tread they had to start with)
I think you also asked me about Mitas in that elaborate quote.I never had Mitas on mine, I had the BKT with the same tread pattern as the Mitas MPT 03.They were 14 ply( drom memory),G rated and yes I had them from new,fitted by the dealer I bought the truck from.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mr Tyre Mr Tyre
Joined: 17 Jun 2002 Odometer: 4957 Location: Darlington Co Durham
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
They don't look that good to me as in 90% worn.2@20mm,2@15mm.Perhaps Vaculug would recap them for you.As normalbloke has said the XM47 are the best, lovely flexible radial casings used to fit lots of them.They would have come with 35/32nd's of tread depth when new.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
istruggle2gate11 Gate Opener
Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Odometer: 21 Location: Barton On Humber
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
normalbloke Articulating
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633
|
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:26 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Yes, my chum bought them to go onto one of his U1300s.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|