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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: Allt-y-Badi LLangollen - probably a silly question
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Ive emailed the ROW office about this lane, seems to have been shut forever, probably due to the grumpy lady at the bottom of the hill. Anyone know whats going on here, is it going to be repaired and reopened? ROW havent replied yet and that was a week ago.
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
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Jimmy Just got MTs
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Odometer: 307 Location: Wirral, Cheshire
1992 Toyota Landcruiser
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject:
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Some councils can be really slow getting back to you. Send a reminder.
__________________________________ Reality is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there |
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paul_humphreys Off-Road Guru
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Odometer: 1272 Location: Oswestry Shropshire
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject:
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We did talk about this lane last night at the CRAG meeting.
It is due to open in December, but we do not know if the TRO will be extended or not.
Paul
__________________________________ LC 80 series 1993. 285/75/16s Cooper SSTs, OME 850s on the front with 25mm packer, 868s on the rear. 4.88 diffs. Winch bumper with 12000lb winch.
http://www.crag-uk.org
http://www.4x4responsewales.org/ |
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adgard Gate Opener
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 Odometer: 6
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:09 am Post subject:
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if you look on the wrexham councils web site it gives you info about it on the high ways page did have a little laugh last night when i saw it on there
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:41 am Post subject:
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Have you a link?
Thanks
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject:
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Won't do any good linking to Wrexham - it's Denbighshire! And check with the Highways Dept, not ROW - it's a road!
Regards,
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paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject:
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Denbighshire County Council seems poorly served in terms of useful stuff on their website, for example unlike many other councils they don't list the current TROs in force. After 5 mins searching I did find this, though, see the small box on page 2:
http://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/www/cms/live/content.nsf/lookupattachments/English~DNAP-79JLLX/$File/July%202008.pdf
As I understood things, the council can only impose a temporary TRO for 6 months, and renew it twice, so they'd have had to renew it twice to close the lane for 18 months to allow the works to be carried out, and no matter if completed or not, either re-open it or apply for a permanent TRO, which would need to go through a process of public consultation and then onto a decision. I am guessing they've not applied for the permanent TRO.....???
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject:
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Thats why i asked for a link John, I'd emailed Denbighshire and wanted to see what was on Wrexhams website as i couldnt find it after someone said it was there.
So does this mean that its been temporarily TRO'd for the maximium now and must either reopen or close forever? I trust it'll have to reopen as theres not been any consultation that anyones been aware of.
Cheers
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject:
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More searching (this time on the Denbighshire website) and I found this:
http://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/www/cms/live/content.nsf/lookupattachments/English~DNAP-7UWKMD/$File/WEEKLY%20BULLETIN%2022-11-09.pdf
Note the 2nd to last entry, for Allt-Y-Badi. It suggests the date of closure is 02/06/09 to Dec 09. You might assume this is the 3rd (out of 3) temporary TROs, and with their max length being 6 months, then the road will reopen on 2 Dec 09.
Unlikely to be online, but temporary TROs often include the wording "or until the works are complete, whichever is sooner" so we might assume that Denbighshire CC didn't plan the works so they took a whole 18 months, but went into the 3rd TRO period (possibly due to delaying starting the works?) so it may indeed be open already. That's unless they haven't actually repaired it and they have until 2 Dec as a closure window to fix it before they run out of temporary TRO time!
I've emailed them too, and a google search shows that a handful of bikers have also emailed them. Nobody's detailed a response from them yet though.
Definitely one worth watching this space on.
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject:
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I'd previously emailed Denbighshire ROW and recieved no reply, so as you suggest John its Highways i should have contacted. I have now emailed Highways and asked about the end of the current TRO, what date that is, and any plans for a permanent TRO and consultation.
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject:
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Thanks Paul, if we all keep at them we might create more fuss than the angry lady at the bottom of the hill lol.
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject:
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jimny_gary wrote: | Thanks Paul, if we all keep at them we might create more fuss than the angry lady at the bottom of the hill lol.
Gary |
Yeah, the only problem being that she lives there so she has a vote; and while everyone who pays road tax has a right to have the roads repaired and not closed for improper reasons, we don't actually live in that Parish council (or county) so our voice tends to get ignored. Politics/democracy, huh.
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject:
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Maybe i should buy a property next door and open a greenlaners cafe..... LMAO
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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Ricardo Articulating
Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Odometer: 797 Location: North Wales
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject:
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I walked up (unlike the scramblers who went before me , an im a biker too so not anti bike) the other week and the Rock steps (which i assume were the area of 'repair' and they were exactly the same as previously (before the TRO) was the lane below them (didnt go right to the top but to be fair there isnt much above the steps)
So the council had better get moving if they are going to do anything.
R
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ne jones Just got MTs
Joined: 03 May 2006 Odometer: 378 Location: Tipton, West Mids
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject:
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Are you sure this lane is into its 3rd temporary tro?
__________________________________ Cheers, Nathan
Former CRAG Membership Officer
http://www.crag-uk.org/forum/index.php |
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Drift Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:50 am Post subject:
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At best Nathan its in its second, but shouldn't that need to be applied for to?
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:40 am Post subject:
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Denbigshires website suggests that its down for drainage repair with a particular company down to do the repairs, we'll wait and see.
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject:
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Not sure why ive not come across this before, but heres some history of the lane Allt-Y-Badi. I can see why the poor lady gets frustrated by trucks and Sat Nav, I'm sure there cant be a problem with the more well behaved of us though in our 4x4's, i can imagine that the sound of racing engines and spinning wheels of std 4x4's that arn't really suitable for getting up there could be frustrating.
http://www.fixmystreet.com/report/16044
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject:
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You've hit the nail on the head, Gary. That's why all the objections arose in the first place. Unfortunately, there's a lot of politics involved in this, and Denbs are doing their best to resolve it. Won't do any harm to remind them that others are interested as well, though.
Regards,
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paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject:
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hoodoo wrote: | You've hit the nail on the head, Gary. That's why all the objections arose in the first place. Unfortunately, there's a lot of politics involved in this, and Denbs are doing their best to resolve it. Won't do any harm to remind them that others are interested as well, though.
Regards, |
There does seem to be a subset of green lanes which get abnormally high internet coverage, and thus get driven more often than others, then seem to be a magnet for complaints and local 'battles' (politics). Its not the residents themselves; its not the 4x4 users, nor the bike users. Its the fact that the network of green lanes is being eroded to a small handful of lanes!
Unfortunately the only real solution is to start by reversing the NERC Act, then introduce a right to roam on common land. But I know this is a bit of a pipe dream and will never happen.
As it stands, even if it does open the mere presence of a grumpy local and the possibility of conflict kind of puts you off and makes it one to avoid, no matter how interesting it is to drive.
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject:
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Quite right Paul, i think that once a lane becomes well known it attracts those who should really be at a pay and play site rather than a green lane and either dont know and/or dont care about the problems associated with keeping the lanes open - they'd drive or ride them anyway as is seen at Allt-Y-Badi with trail bikers still using it - i presume theyre not members of the TRF.
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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Ricardo Articulating
Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Odometer: 797 Location: North Wales
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject:
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The lane is a public road and my opinion is that you should expect vehicular noise if you live next to a road ( i have to) , however i was watching my lad play football on the fields at the foot of the Badi the other week and i can say tha there was a sustained amount of scrabler bike traffic up that lane. Now this is surely fuelling the fire and strengthening any argumants being made by the residents. Like i said earlier i have a bike so this annoys me even more.
Its a very useful lane for me as i use it to get home from the Ceriog Valley. (Always done it down hill to avoid further disruption)
R
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paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject:
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Ricardo wrote: | The lane is a public road and my opinion is that you should expect vehicular noise if you live next to a road ( i have to) , however i was watching my lad play football on the fields at the foot of the Badi the other week and i can say tha there was a sustained amount of scrabler bike traffic up that lane. Now this is surely fuelling the fire and strengthening any argumants being made by the residents. Like i said earlier i have a bike so this annoys me even more.
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Sometimes TROs are generally respected, sometimes not. Any scrambler bikes disobeying a TRO should be dealt with by the proper means - eg rural policing, which is all-too-commonly underfunded these days. Illegal use of a road shouldn't be a valid reason for a permanent TRO (followed by a horse gate and horse only access, etc, or worse) although if the council wanted to, they could argue it is a valid reason and push through the permanent TRO.
I notice that the Denbighshire Local Access Forum hasn't met since May 2008 - which is significant once you realise that it is a statutory consultative body, in other words a legal requirement to have one (to represent countryside access groups). I hope that the council are able to take on a range of views properly and come to the right decision.
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject:
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Just had reply from Highways:
Dear Mr Wrench,
I can confirm that Allt y Badi is currently officially closed to enable safety work to be carried out to the unsurfaced highway, the closure will expire on 2nd December 2009. There are further drainage works planned for the lane but a date has not yet been confirmed for this.
Regards
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject:
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I replied asking wether the signs would be removed for the 2nd:
'Yes, the signs will be removed and a new closure will be set up for the future works if required. '
So, whos up for driving Allt- Y-Badi after 2nd then?
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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paul_humphreys Off-Road Guru
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Odometer: 1272 Location: Oswestry Shropshire
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject:
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Well I have the day off!
__________________________________ LC 80 series 1993. 285/75/16s Cooper SSTs, OME 850s on the front with 25mm packer, 868s on the rear. 4.88 diffs. Winch bumper with 12000lb winch.
http://www.crag-uk.org
http://www.4x4responsewales.org/ |
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:21 am Post subject:
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Correct me if I'm wrong Paul but you seem to be of rather a lot !
Unfortunatley i have to work and I'm off to JP's at the weekend after so cant have another pass out from the wife. I bet it'll be closed by the time i get there again !
I'll shout If I'm anywhere near soon.
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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paul_humphreys Off-Road Guru
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Odometer: 1272 Location: Oswestry Shropshire
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:22 am Post subject:
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Well Gary, I work 4 on 2 off. So the "weekends" come around very quick for me. But on the other hand I have done 60 hours in the last 4 days!!!
The only problem for me is that my "weekend" falls in the middle of the week most of the time. But then again there are less ramblers about on week days .
Paul
__________________________________ LC 80 series 1993. 285/75/16s Cooper SSTs, OME 850s on the front with 25mm packer, 868s on the rear. 4.88 diffs. Winch bumper with 12000lb winch.
http://www.crag-uk.org
http://www.4x4responsewales.org/ |
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jimny_gary Articulating
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Odometer: 588 Location: Crewe
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject:
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Hence volunteers need for repairs usually falls when I'm at work then!
Gary
__________________________________ www.codeav.com
Suzuki Jimny
6:1 Rob Storr Rocklobster
Rob Storr Panhards, rear disc kit, wheel spacers.
3" lift kit, 16" GV wheels and 750.16 Diamonds. |
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paul_humphreys Off-Road Guru
Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Odometer: 1272 Location: Oswestry Shropshire
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:41 am Post subject:
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Well was up there today :p It is now Freelander frendley, even going up.
Paul
__________________________________ LC 80 series 1993. 285/75/16s Cooper SSTs, OME 850s on the front with 25mm packer, 868s on the rear. 4.88 diffs. Winch bumper with 12000lb winch.
http://www.crag-uk.org
http://www.4x4responsewales.org/ |
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