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X-eng handbrakes
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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: X-eng handbrakes Reply with quote

I've been running my X-eng handbrake for a while now but i'm not really that happy with it as i find that the springs supplied with it dont really do a good job of returning the pads and releasing the cable, always resulting in a bouncy handbrake lever! And when it got clogged with mud the pads dont release and quickly wear! when i fitted some new pads I added some washers in with the springs to help space the pads out better, this helped with the slack cable problem but the top one seems to have got caught on the disc and caused uneven wear of the pads that have only been fitted for a week and done one event. when i fitted them I did notice that this might happen, however there was a good few mm of the pads to get through before it would even get close to the disc (well thats what i thought anyway!) so was going to hunt for some better suited washers in the next few weeks as i figured i would have plenty of time, how wrong was I! Evil or Very Mad

what have people done to there Xeng handbrakes to improve them? anyone used different handbrake cables to the one supplied?

At first i was impressed with the holding power of it but now I'm starting to get fed up with it, i spend an hour at a time getting it to work and release well and as soon as it sees a bit of mud it just goes c**p again! I might just spend the £££ on a spidertrax one from DG tuning. The way the cable is routed is just stupid as it ends up getting kinked to clear the transmission tunnel, then its routed in a very sharp circle to reach the lever.

I might just throw it at the neighbours dog! Mad

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4x4rick
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Odometer: 1900
Location: J25 M25



PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richard(rockwatt) is making me a bespoke 1 using a wilwood hyd/ caliper
im going to be using a standard 410 cable with it.........
had a x/eng one and sold it...........


R Cool

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zukenstein
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Odometer: 439
Location: Essex Boy


1993 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in the process of fitting mine Shocked

Was excited...now full of doubts again Rolling Eyes ... Crying or Very sad

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What the fool cannot understand he laughs at, thinking that by his laughter he shows superiority instead of latent idiocy.
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jeepmadmike
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 May 2005
Odometer: 4573
Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon



PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not impressed with mine at all, i will be doing something different soon as its eaten another set of pads in the mud
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Land Rovers are the root of all evil!

Now i have gone and bought a D4!

one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy.
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zukenstein
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Odometer: 439
Location: Essex Boy


1993 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How come it takes one person to say something bad, only THEN does everyone else comes out with their gripes??? Shocked

All the comments I had read on here about them were all good thats why I bought one!!! Twisted Evil

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What the fool cannot understand he laughs at, thinking that by his laughter he shows superiority instead of latent idiocy.
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muddymesser
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Odometer: 7819
Location: preston



PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe they are great when new which is when everyone raves about them but noow they are seeing how fast they wear out ect
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jeepmadmike
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 May 2005
Odometer: 4573
Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't impressed with it when it was new!

No sensible route for the cable and a silly x cut in the bash guard (which as I guessed weakens it and allows it to bend)

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Land Rovers are the root of all evil!

Now i have gone and bought a D4!

one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy.
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Diesel Destroyer
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Odometer: 6921
Location: Under the truck covered in EP90



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too am rather unimpressed..

Ive removed mine totally for time being.. as I get bad transmission vibration at 50-60mph with it fitted..

A million shims dont help either.. (yes Ive fitted the bigger flange too)

Its not a bad product.. just mot developed enough to be fitted to SJ's

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madmike666
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zukenstein wrote:
How come it takes one person to say something bad, only THEN does everyone else comes out with their gripes??? Shocked

All the comments I had read on here about them were all good thats why I bought one!!! Twisted Evil


i agree i must have seen 50 plus posts raving about these, mine is half fitted to my project.
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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not the only one then I see! I think i'm going to now pop it off over the weekend and see if there is anything i can do to improve it. the way i see it is that the main problem is the cable release. all it would take is some longer and stiffer springs between the two pads and it would solve a majority of the problems (might even pull the cable back through the sleeve with the tight bend, you never know!) I will post up anything i have done and let you all know if it has improved it! not the sort of thing you should have to do with £150s worth of kit! but ah well!
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4x4rick
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Odometer: 1900
Location: J25 M25



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zukenstein wrote:
How come it takes one person to say something bad, only THEN does everyone else comes out with their gripes??? Shocked

All the comments I had read on here about them were all good thats why I bought one!!! Twisted Evil


i never said anything BAD! or Griped
after reading ZERO's bld in the "custom section" i contacted Richard....
he is designing/making 1 for me thats incorperated into a rockbucket.......

excess brake wear on x/eng's has always been a problem from the start.

R Cool

PS...after a upgrade this weekend!!! there will be LOCKRIGHTS for sale very soon

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zukenstein
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Odometer: 439
Location: Essex Boy


1993 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4rick wrote:

had a x/eng one and sold it...........


Implied then Wink

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Zuk·en·stein - A monster made from parts of cadavers and brought to life by the power of an electrical charge.

What the fool cannot understand he laughs at, thinking that by his laughter he shows superiority instead of latent idiocy.
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simonr
Winch Assistant


Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Odometer: 54
Location: Horsham



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry you are all having problems / hate it - but in the last 4 years since it was launched - this is pretty much the first negative feedback.

I agree there are elements of it that are not ideal - but much of that comes down to price. Although £150 might seem like a lot, we only make about £12 on each one sold. We could use the same caliper as we use on a Land Rover - which would solve most of the problems but it would add £70 to the price.

We originally offered them at £159.99 - but sold almost none. At £149.99 they sell much better.

Do you think it would be worthwhile making a much more 'engineered' solution and retailing it for similar money to a Defender version? I'm happy to give it a go.

Would those of you who have had problems be interested in an upgrade at the cost difference between the two - £70 ish?

If the lever is not returning, you could try placing a spring between the lever on the caliper and one of the caliper through-bolts. This will be much more effective than changing the springs between the pads or adding washers.

As a gesture of good will - mail me the expanded and compressed length of spring you need and I'll stick one in the post to you.

If it turns out that people are only impressed with the brake initially - but think they are rubbish further down the line - maybe it's time to draw a line under the Suzuki version and concentrate on other versions? Is this a general feeling?

Regards,

Si

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Simon Rafferty
www.x-eng.co.uk
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bigdave
Just got MTs


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Odometer: 455
Location: north norfolk



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i havent got one but will be needing something soon as i run disco axles now, and dont have a handrake at mo, was gonna go back to the 410 drum. i will be contacting you about the 'upgraded version'

and can i say what a decent chap you sound for your concerns that we are concerned, and good will gestures etc

Dave

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4x4rick
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Odometer: 1900
Location: J25 M25



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zukenstein wrote:
4x4rick wrote:

had a x/eng one and sold it...........


Implied then Wink

i think you should read it again....

my truck has steadly cost me a small fortune as i uprate it
now my £300 rock/lobster has a rock/bucket on it already but Richard does 1 that helps relieve the stress out of the casing's ....the blt in hand brake is hyd and a natural progression along with the rest of the truck

as a side note im fitting ARB's this weekend ,and not because my LOCKRIGHTS are no good


PS might be some lockrights in the classified's very soon Wink Wink

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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the reply Simon and thats good of you to offer some replacement springs Very Happy i will probably take you up on that offer as i'll be phoning you for another set of pads soon anyway.

TBH I was running it for a good year without any problems but mostly did greenlaning and only a few pay and play days, it was only when the cable started to get a bit old (caked in mud) did the problems start. Then my truck was off the road for a year being rebuilt so i forgot about it! I think some of the problem is that the supplied cable is quite short and not flexible enough to find a good route for unless you have bodylift. i've got a slightly longer more flexible landy one in the workshop i am going to try over the weekend to see if that improves it.

Instead of a complete redesign i think only a few small tweaks to the design could help make it more reliable in the long run, even slightly moving the location of the caliper mount, so that the cable exits a bit lower and doesn't end up with a sharp kink to avoid the edge of the transmission tunnel would make a big difference. then with slightly longer and stronger springs it will help to push the pads flush to the mount, hopefuly holding them more square to the disc, well thats my theory anyway. i did think about a spring on the arm but thought it wouldnt have the same effect.

I'll have a good look and play over the weekend and see what happens with it.


Thanks

Scott

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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3367
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was getting a bit worried there, having the Xeng on the back of my rover tranny box. Especially as mine has a big rotary spring on it to pull the cable back! But it sounds like there needs to be an 'economy' and 'heavy duty' Xeng zuke H/B kit?
And why not, if the HD is tight for room, most extreme' users have already cut chuncks out of the floor Very Happy

As a thread it just shows how you can get a 'run on the bank' Shocked

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gawxo
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Odometer: 3657
Location: wirral



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too many toys you Rick !!!! ,

If the one made by Rockwatt is as good as Zero engineering it will be fine ,


[ EEE Fireblade??????? ]


JP.
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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and to answer the question i would pay the extra for one with the better caliper Wink Laughing im not sure if all suzuki drivers would though, you know what we are like Laughing Laughing
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4x4rick
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Odometer: 1900
Location: J25 M25



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gawxo wrote:
Too many toys you Rick !!!! ,

If the one made by Rockwatt is as good as Zero engineering it will be fine ,


[ EEE Fireblade??????? ]


JP.


my bro always moans about how much i spend! if i have the money and want it...
your here once JP .......its not a dress reversal Laughing

EEE fireblade YES PLEASE Twisted Evil

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Most sports require only one ball -our sport require's two..........
.........................................................................

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Nobby
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Odometer: 3097
Location: Ty Gwyllt


1989 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there we are guys a answer from the man himself
i hope you get all your problems sorted

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jeepmadmike
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 May 2005
Odometer: 4573
Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon



PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon i'd me happier paying 220quid for something which works, rather than wasting 150quid on something that dont......

not sure if the caliper is the issue its more the location of it and the angle the cable has to exit it. I drilled holes in the floor for the cable route.

I'm thinking of modding it allowing different pads to be fitted and easily changed.

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Land Rovers are the root of all evil!

Now i have gone and bought a D4!

one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy.
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Diesel Destroyer
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Odometer: 6921
Location: Under the truck covered in EP90



PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only problem is with vibration at speed.. and not spring return as some have had..

My friend at work the engineer is going to make me a soild spacer to go on the pulley instead of all the shims being used..

£150 is not a lot.. but most Zuk owners are tight/broke so can see why some think its a lot..

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Diesel Destroyer
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Odometer: 6921
Location: Under the truck covered in EP90



PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and another factor which helps mine movemore easily is that I run a 2" body lift.. so more room for the cable..
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xamtex
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Odometer: 11903
Location: nuneaton



PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine was great when fitted...but pad wear was pretty dramatic...no more than 50 road miles....2 weekend offroad events and pads were deader than a dead thing....not cheap either!!
and it was fitted to the instructions...not dragging...i have a bodylift so the cable was not too bad to fit...without a lift i can see it would be an issue.
reality check.....when new great....but no better than a t/case drum set up when clean and adjusted properly.....works better than the drum in mud....up to the point where the pads wear to nothing.....which is not long.

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Doc
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diesel star Destroyer wrote:
£150 is not a lot.. but most Zuk owners are tight/broke so can see why some think its a lot..


Agreed. It would appear the majority of SJ and Vit drivers do things on the cheap. Would it be fair to say that if we weren't on a budget quite a few of us may have gone down the Land Rover route before we fell in love with The Rhino? The fact is bits for Zuks tend to be a hell of a lot cheaper and people want big lifts and tyres before handbrakes that work.
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Nobby
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Odometer: 3097
Location: Ty Gwyllt


1989 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc wrote:
Diesel star Destroyer wrote:
£150 is not a lot.. but most Zuk owners are tight/broke so can see why some think its a lot..


Agreed. It would appear the majority of SJ and Vit drivers do things on the cheap. Would it be fair to say that if we weren't on a budget quite a few of us may have gone down the Land Rover route before we fell in love with The Rhino? The fact is bits for Zuks tend to be a hell of a lot cheaper and people want big lifts and tyres before handbrakes that work.


but arent handbrakes part of a MOT ?
id much rather have my car in one piece after parking it on a hill than have big lifts and tyres

perhaps im wrong

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rockwatt
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Odometer: 1542
Location: North lincs



PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

after a lenghty phone conversation with Simon (xeng) and a chat at the 4x4 show last year he sent me an xbrake to design a modula bucket mounting arms and brake that all fit together. I relayed the isues with the brake and the fact that it's a semi engineering fit as the flange has to be true within 1 thou so if it's had a bash with a hammer to remove it then it's no longer any good. The cable mounting is also a bit tricky to get the caliper to sit square. but like Simon said above this is all down to cost as to keep the price down then it all needs to be laser cut and press braked for mass production with no welding due to liabilitys involved.
as for pads not lasting that's an issue on any disk brake that's dunked in mud on a regular basis. The nature calipers is that they back off to a minimum clearance that is less than most dirt particals so it's going to grind away even if you don't use it. and remembering that a prop disk runs 4 times faster than a wheel disk it's bound to die much quicker. IMO the only way is to put it in a sealed enclosure and for that your talking silly money.

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Rocklobster gears / refurb cases /rockbuckets/SU manifolds/dual transfer boxes/ sj tcase to jimny cradles and speedo drives/bespoke machining / any thing made to a drawing.
email me for details

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samuraibloke
Gate Opener


Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Odometer: 43
Location: Somerset



PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, I know it's a bit off topic but if you use a 410 T brake for MOT and also fit line locks on the rear you have the best handbrake you can get. Line locks are better than any mecanical transfer brake.
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4x4rick
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Odometer: 1900
Location: J25 M25



PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby wrote:
Doc wrote:
Diesel star Destroyer wrote:
£150 is not a lot.. but most Zuk owners are tight/broke so can see why some think its a lot..


Agreed. It would appear the majority of SJ and Vit drivers do things on the cheap. Would it be fair to say that if we weren't on a budget quite a few of us may have gone down the Land Rover route before we fell in love with The Rhino? The fact is bits for Zuks tend to be a hell of a lot cheaper and people want big lifts and tyres before handbrakes that work.


but arent handbrakes part of a MOT ?
id much rather have my car in one piece after parking it on a hill than have big lifts and tyres

perhaps im wrong


spot on Jason, some are missing the point,
if i went to say Bures, which is a sandy/gravel pit my rear wheel disc/pads will and have worn out in a day. then why not the x/brake?
matainace is key with any thing, how many of you pressure wash under your zuk after a day out?(same day) who oils there x/brake inner cable....( i didnt)
do you have your wheels off and inspect/clean brakes lube uj's and so on
for every 1 that said yes theres 10 or more that dont and you expect stuff to be100% all the time.......R Cool

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