Which hobby MIG?

11% ORANGE ROVER · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: Which hobby MIG?

I'm facing some welding jobs on the Rangie, and need to buy a MIG. I'll be sharing the cost with a mate who also needs some jobs doing. The MIG will be used on body repair, so does not have to be super powerful, but should be able to run low amps reliably to prevent lots of blown holes in the sheet!

What do you chaps use?

Nigel Head · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:44 am Post subject:

Hi Jim,

I use a Clarke gas/no gas 150 amp which is good for upto 6mm plate and will also go down to 20 amp for bodywork.

I use gas indoors and gasless outdoors.
I tried all sorts of CO2 gas/pub gas etc but there is only one gas that does a real good job on bodywork - either Argon/CO2 mix or best I've used is BOC Argoshield light (needs a BOC contract).
I took out a contract and although it's dear enough, just try the little disposables at Â£10 a pop...new bottle every 20 mins of welding, nah.
I'll not use anything other than the Argoshield now.

Have a mooch over here too:
http://mig-welding.co.uk/

Nigel.

11% ORANGE ROVER · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:03 am Post subject:

Hello Nigel,

Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for the tips.

That site is really excellent, I've just been reading/watching the tutorials and am really looking forward to getting some metal in the car now.

My neighbour can lay his hands on SIP MIG's, do I have to specify that I need one that will do gas and gasless type welding, or do they all do it? I read that the polarity is very different for each type. Have you had issues using gasless wire on your Clarke?

Nigel Head · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:39 am Post subject:

Not sure about the SIP one's - biggest single issue with the cheaper ones seems to be the wire feeds where the pressure roller is only supported on one side instead of both sides of the roller.
My Clarke is just fine and never had an issue with the feeder.

Personally, I'd make sure any prospective purchase is gas/no gas capable.

Gasless does leave a lot of spatter which needs afterweld clean up (can be reduced with anti-spatter spray just before welding), however it is useful outside when welding outdoors in a breeze where the shielding gas could get blown away.
I'll always try to weld indoors and use gas as the finished weld is so much better looking and needs no after weld cleanup other than a light wire brush.

Nigel.

Nathaniel · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject:

We just got a new SIP Welder at work, its a Topmig Turbo 195, got a proper bottle of Argoshield on it and I can fully reccomend it.

At home I have a sealey 180, it welds very well but I have arguments with the wire feed.

Peter R. · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:

Contact a few industry pro gear suppliers. Very often, welding outfits change their gear every few years regardless, and the supplier does a p/e. These old ones are then refurbished and go for a (relative) song. You end up with a fully refurbished pro rig for the price of a good hobby box.

Peter R.

menno · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject:

Nice to see some Belgians on here Peter. Very Happy

Thats where i am originally from.

Ben naar Engeland verhuist 11 jaar geleden. Woonden vroeger in Antwerpen.

Sorry to hijack the thread

jeepmadmike · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject:

i love my kempi but it was not cheap, i got it as a birthday present when i was 14 so its still going well 20 years later and has saved loads of terminally rusty cars.

imatthew · Guest

To weld then metal you need a gas unit. If you look at the specs on the gas/gasless units, the minimum thickness for gasless is higher than gas.

I have looked at MIGs a number of times, but here in OZ you can only higher the gas bottles, you cannot purchase them outright. The cost of renting the bottle has put me off as I do not do that much welding.

What I did buy recently is an INVERTER welder. That is an arc welder that welds in DC rather than AC power. Excellent rig and I have found that I can weld metal below 1mm without burning holes. They are very easy to use and do an excellent weld. They also use a lot less power, which makes them good to work from home without blowing fuses. You can also get an extra lead with them and they are transformed into a TIG welder.

You should be able to get 130 amp inverter welder for a bit over 100 pound.

imatthew · Guest

This welder is similar to mine.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/R-Tech-MMA140M-DC-Inverte...dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

11% ORANGE ROVER · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:19 am Post subject:

Thanks for that Ian.

I've been offered a SIP 150 for Â£120, brand new. Not sure if it is the DP or not, and I want to use gasless for the outside jobs.

I could have the SIP 170DP for Â£204 plus VAT. It is a bit out of our range that one though. I'll check to see whether the 150 is the DP, and if it is, I think I'll go for that.

I looked at invertors, but they are way out of my price range, sadly. I have also heard that SIPs have lots of wire feed problems, but it seems that stems freom poor maintenanace. If you use anti-spatter gel and keep the nozzles clean, you avoid the issues.

Not many of you out there welding though, which surprises me!

Nigel Head · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:26 am Post subject:

I looked at inverter welders too, but decided against one as especially the 'cheap' ones tend to be OK until they go pop, then you can't get it repaired economically + a lot of them are now of Chinese origin and last about 2 minutes past their warranty - even the low end Butters ones are Chinese.

At least with a traditional transformer one I would stand a chance of fixing it myself if needed.

TIG is very nice but under the wing of a somewhat rusty vehicle you can't get a steady enough hand to weld successfully. TIG is superb, but only really suited to bench work or where you can maintain a steady hand, in fact 2 steady hands!

A small MIG unit is perhaps the easiest to get on with and will do all that is needed on bodywork and light fabrication.

The Clarke 90amp gets a good review on the mig-welding forum.
If you can stretch to it, get one nearer 150amp as it will be a bit more versatile and will run on 'normal' UK 13amp plug top mains supply.
Anything bigger will need a 32A supply.

Nigel.

Nigel Head · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:31 am Post subject:

Jim,

Post in the Suzuki forum if you want responses from people who weld a lot Laughing

IMHO bodywork (1mm and less thickness) is best done indoors and with gas. Gasless is just too messy and needs double the after weld clean up time.

Nigel.

11% ORANGE ROVER · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:42 am Post subject:

imatthew · Guest

Jim, even though that was very similar (if not the same) as the welder I purchased. I paid the equivalent of 150 pound and it was imported from over your way. You can often buy things cheaper at proper stores than what you can on Ebay.

If you compare the gasless MIG to the inverter welder, I reckon the inverter would win hands down.

Ian

pitmole · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject:

Hello Jim, you have a pm!

gbaz · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject:

I have got the sip dual purpose 170 and it does weld ok. I was keen to get a dual purpose welder so i could weld outside with no problems, but i have never bothered to use it without gas so far. All my welding is done outside i just avoid doing it on windy days.

AndyH aka Mad4x4 · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject:

Look for something with a good euro torch, Al lot of the SIP ones have a cheap torch which has a very flexible outer that after about 6 months falls to bits. (oh and sip won;t sell a replacement torch)

With a euro torch you can get an off the self replacement.

gbaz · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject:

I thought my sip had a euro torch?? How do you tell?

AndyH aka Mad4x4 · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject:

The euro troch system has a Connector that connect s the gas, control and, wire onto the front of the machine

THis is a euro Torch

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Mtr-Mig-Welding-Gun-Euro-Torch-for-Welder_W0QQitemZ290080176923QQihZ019QQcategoryZ11774QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ad90 · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject:

I have had a Cebora 150 Turbo for years, it was even used at a mates HGV garage while I lived overseas for 18 Months. The Cebora was also sold as BOC an Snap-On machines. I cannot fin the same machine on the WWW but I would recommend Cebora to anyone.

AD90

11% ORANGE ROVER · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:17 am Post subject:

Thanks for all the replies on this one. Excellent.

The goal posts have moved a bit, the SIP 150 was not the DP one, so I have been offered a 170DP with Euro torch for a few quid more. It seems to fit the bill nicely.

Good news to hear it is only windy days that affect the gas welding, I am fairly sheltered here most of the time. It is nice to have the option of going gasless though.

Nigel, I'll be checking out BOC for a contract ASAP, thanks for the tips on Gas. Can you advise what type of regulator I'll need?

Phil-muddyzook · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject:

how much is the 170dp? i'm looking into upgrading my mig set

11% ORANGE ROVER · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject:

Ebay and price compare can get it down to Â£285. My contact is getting it for Â£140......

And no, he does not do deals normally! I can't ask him if he has anymore, and no, it is not nicked, knocked off or bent. Wink

I just got lucky with a supplier he uses who has to get rid of an overstock and this is offered to staff only on a 1st come 1st served basis.

Sorry!

gbaz · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject:

For that price you cant go wrong. It will weld virtually anything you are likely to want to weld. I paid Â£240ish a year or so ago and haven't needed anything more.

jeepmadmike · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject:

I've got a inverter too a cheap one from machine mart its a good tool. nice and easy to carry and runs on long extension leads (100M) without problems too.

maxknight · Just got MTs Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Odometer: 415

My weldings not to good at times, but give yourself the best start and buy a half decent machine, i tried a sip welder and just didn't get on with it, i then bought myself a dana taskmaster which is made by cebora and also packaged as snap on.

when its working well it's very good but wire feed is sometimes a bit rubbish.

As for gas almost all decent welders agree that argon or argon mixes are best, personally i didn't get get on with argon, it seems to produce a really hot arc, sounds lovely but I have ended up with wire welded to my tips on several occasions, so i stick with co2.