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Towing Info
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normalbloke
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Odometer: 633




PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathaniel wrote:
DENT wrote:
paul_c wrote:
DENT wrote:
the the landy hand book it says 2000 kgs braked
400kgs close coupled brakes but as a landy has hydraulic drakes how would you comply with that or is it impossible


??????


From the Discovery owner's handbook off RAVE:

Quote:
Maximum permissible towed weights V8i & Tdi On- road Off- road
Unbraked trailers 750 kg (1653 lb) .................................................. 500 kg (1102 lb)
Trailers with overrun brakes 3500 kg (7716 lb) ................................ 1000 kg (2204 lb)
4 wheel trailers with coupled brakes * 4000 kg (8818 lb) ................. 1000 kg (2204 lb)


thats what i mean but the 2000 is as i was lookling at series vehicles
how do you achieve coupled brakes on a landy as its not air like trucks


There are systems out there, I've seen it done.
Can't remeber how it worked tho.

Not forgetting you need it on a Ring hitch as Towballs are max 3500kgs...


Wrong..

"80mm ball is good for trailers up to 32 tonnes (32000kg) with an imposed vertical weight of <4>50 tonnes with am imposed vertical weight of up to ~10 tonnes"

Bigger toys etc....
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DENT
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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1964 Land Rover Series IIa

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

normalbloke wrote:
Nathaniel wrote:
DENT wrote:
paul_c wrote:
DENT wrote:
the the landy hand book it says 2000 kgs braked
400kgs close coupled brakes but as a landy has hydraulic drakes how would you comply with that or is it impossible


??????


From the Discovery owner's handbook off RAVE:

Quote:
Maximum permissible towed weights V8i & Tdi On- road Off- road
Unbraked trailers 750 kg (1653 lb) .................................................. 500 kg (1102 lb)
Trailers with overrun brakes 3500 kg (7716 lb) ................................ 1000 kg (2204 lb)
4 wheel trailers with coupled brakes * 4000 kg (8818 lb) ................. 1000 kg (2204 lb)


thats what i mean but the 2000 is as i was lookling at series vehicles
how do you achieve coupled brakes on a landy as its not air like trucks


There are systems out there, I've seen it done.
Can't remeber how it worked tho.

Not forgetting you need it on a Ring hitch as Towballs are max 3500kgs...


Wrong..

"80mm ball is good for trailers up to 32 tonnes (32000kg) with an imposed vertical weight of <4>50 tonnes with am imposed vertical weight of up to ~10 tonnes"

Bigger toys etc....


i think he means the standard 40 or 50mm on ifor trailers
they have 3500 stamped on alot of them
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normalbloke
Articulating


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Odometer: 633




PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DENT wrote:
normalbloke wrote:
Nathaniel wrote:
DENT wrote:
paul_c wrote:
DENT wrote:
the the landy hand book it says 2000 kgs braked
400kgs close coupled brakes but as a landy has hydraulic drakes how would you comply with that or is it impossible


??????


From the Discovery owner's handbook off RAVE:

Quote:
Maximum permissible towed weights V8i & Tdi On- road Off- road
Unbraked trailers 750 kg (1653 lb) .................................................. 500 kg (1102 lb)
Trailers with overrun brakes 3500 kg (7716 lb) ................................ 1000 kg (2204 lb)
4 wheel trailers with coupled brakes * 4000 kg (8818 lb) ................. 1000 kg (2204 lb)


thats what i mean but the 2000 is as i was lookling at series vehicles
how do you achieve coupled brakes on a landy as its not air like trucks


There are systems out there, I've seen it done.
Can't remeber how it worked tho.

Not forgetting you need it on a Ring hitch as Towballs are max 3500kgs...


Wrong..

"80mm ball is good for trailers up to 32 tonnes (32000kg) with an imposed vertical weight of <4>50 tonnes with am imposed vertical weight of up to ~10 tonnes"

Bigger toys etc....


i think he means the standard 40 or 50mm on ifor trailers
they have 3500 stamped on alot of them

I know what he meant, but that isn't what he typed!
I was making a point! In a subtle non keyboard warrior stylee.
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Nathaniel
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Joined: 13 May 2003
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1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, 80mm ball is deffo in the "big toys" department.

We were talking about towing with Landrovers
Surprised

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Nat

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Llanigraham wrote:
New Dept of Transport publication on one of our favourite subjects:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/info-dollies.pdf

Others:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/info_trailers.pdf

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafe...fo-reflective.pdf

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LlaniGraham
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Joined: 06 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all those towing in France from now on, the following will be of interest:

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/5582430/fren...peed%20limits.pdf

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MSA Radio WORCESTER 1
4x4 Response Wales
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mmgemini
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Joined: 26 Dec 2004
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Location: Stockton on Tees



PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could somebody tell me what the towbar noseweight is for a Defender110 station wagon. GVW of 3.050kg and that of a Defender 130 please
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mike FOAK

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excossack
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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Location: Somewhere



PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to here is 75kg
http://landroveroneten.com/index.php/history-an...d-specifications/

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mmgemini
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John
It's not in the Paynes book The 109 is though

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mike FOAK

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TarkMalbot
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Odometer: 394
Location: Carlisle


1996 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always seem to be disputing with people about towing with a licence issued after 1997. Everyone keeps telling me you CAN'T tow anything unless you have the B+E but the DVLA document says that with a B licence:

"Motor vehicle with a MAM of up to 3,500kg, no more than eight passenger seats with or without a trailer – weighing no more than 750kg.

As category B but with a trailer weighing more than 750kg. The total weight of the vehicle and trailer together can’t weigh more than 3500kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle."

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Modified at www.bloodredoffroad.com
If it has wheels, I'm in!
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LlaniGraham
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Odometer: 2701
Location: Llanidloes



PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since towbars/balls are now part of the MOT test, this might be useful to people:

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_660.htm

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4x4 Response Wales
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mighty_zuke
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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Location: Sibbertoft, Leicester



PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First point that towing on an A frame or dolly is illegal is wrong......

It is illegal unless you are recovering a vehicle to a place of safety. This means no A to B journeys, recovery only, and the vehicle on the dolly/A frame has to be road legal so have full tax/mot/insurance. Also it has to comply to the towing weight of the tow vehicle.

Also it is legal to use on an A to B journey if all wheels (Dolly and towed vehicle) that are in contact with the ground are braked on an overrun/hydraulic system from the tow car. This then complies we trailer law on braked trailers. Obviously the trailer laws then have to be followed as stated in the previous posts!

Regards

Mike
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TarkMalbot
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Odometer: 394
Location: Carlisle


1996 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having bought a 2.8 Ton hourse trailer I have booked my B+E test for August. I read on the site that it only involves 10 minutes driving on the road and then some safety tests and a reverse off road. They still want £115 thogh for the test and I have to supply my own vehicle, trailer and additional mirrors. Rolling Eyes
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If it has wheels, I'm in!
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MartinL
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Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Odometer: 11
Location: South East England



PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TarkMalbot wrote:
Having bought a 2.8 Ton hourse trailer I have booked my B+E test for August. I read on the site that it only involves 10 minutes driving on the road and then some safety tests and a reverse off road. They still want £115 thogh for the test and I have to supply my own vehicle, trailer and additional mirrors. Rolling Eyes


I don't know where you read that there is only ten minutes of driving. Look at the Difflock article on the B+E test and you will see the test is normally an hour and a half long and involves a one hour road drive, a question and answer session and an uncoupling and coupling up exercise.

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http://www.trailerinstructor.co.uk/
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Madfish
Just got MTs


Joined: 15 Apr 2011
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Location: Feck knows! Mostly S.Wales!


1994 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinL wrote:
TarkMalbot wrote:
Having bought a 2.8 Ton hourse trailer I have booked my B+E test for August. I read on the site that it only involves 10 minutes driving on the road and then some safety tests and a reverse off road. They still want £115 thogh for the test and I have to supply my own vehicle, trailer and additional mirrors. Rolling Eyes


I don't know where you read that there is only ten minutes of driving. Look at the Difflock article on the B+E test and you will see the test is normally an hour and a half long and involves a one hour road drive, a question and answer session and an uncoupling and coupling up exercise.


And a reversing exercise

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MartinL
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Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madfish wrote:
And a reversing exercise


That goes without saying Wink

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TarkMalbot
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
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Location: Carlisle


1996 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinL wrote:

I don't know where you read that there is only ten minutes of driving. Look at the Difflock article on the B+E test and you will see the test is normally an hour and a half long and involves a one hour road drive, a question and answer session and an uncoupling and coupling up exercise.


I got that information from the http://www.direct.gov.uk website.

Copied directly from the site:

The car and trailer test (B+E) is based on the lorry driving test and lasts for approximately one hour. Please note that B+E tests are conducted at vocational (bus and lorry) driving test centres.

The towing test (B+E) includes:

vehicle safety questions
an off-road reverse manoeuvre
a controlled stop
uncoupling and coupling of the trailer and driving on the road

Your practical driving test will include approximately ten minutes of independent driving. This is designed to assess your ability to drive safely while making decisions independently.

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Modified at www.bloodredoffroad.com
If it has wheels, I'm in!
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TarkMalbot
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Odometer: 394
Location: Carlisle


1996 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I got confused with the ten minuite statement and the 10 min independant driving is just one section of it.

Although with the test being about an hour long it can't be an hours driving on the road.

I guess I will soon find out when I go for my test in August! Anyone have any tips? I am not planning on any lessons mainly due to the fact I have driven in the past with a caravan in tow (with a combined weight of car and caravan less than 3500kg etc etc) for about 30,000 miles!

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Daihard. F78 Fourtrak Fieldman TDL.
Modified at www.bloodredoffroad.com
If it has wheels, I'm in!
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MartinL
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Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said before the test is an hour and a half long and as the DSA say it is based on the C+E test for LGV vehicles. There is a one hour road drive and as mentioned there is a ten minute independent driving component in this. Also there is no longer a controlled braking exercise as braking is assessed throughout the test.

Advice?

Take a look at the Difflock article http://www.difflock.com/magazine/overland/Car_Trailer_B_E_driving_test.shtml

The only part that is out of date is the reference to the braking exercise which was removed from the test on January 1st this year. This was removed from the test mainly because ABS is now fitted as standard under construction and usage regulations.

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aniesigh
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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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Location: north devon


1991 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you are taking your test i would deffinately do at least a days training but i would probably recomend a full course, i tow caravans for work and have done alot of towing previous to doing my B+E but still found the 3 days usefull, stupid things like you have to hitch and un-hitch the trailer in exactly the right procedure otherwise you will fail, and loads of other silly things. think i did about an hour of driving, the rest of the time was the reversing exercise, hitch and un-hitch and show me tell me Q's,
cheers

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TarkMalbot
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Odometer: 394
Location: Carlisle


1996 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks. I will ask about my local instructos and have a lesson to see what he thinks.

Cheers,
Mark.

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Modified at www.bloodredoffroad.com
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ben_uk
Just got MTs


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Location: Previously shropshire, now Melbourne Australia!



PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did my trailer test and hadnt had much experience before. i did a half days training and then had the test the next day.

it isnt easy, especially after passing my driving test 7 years ago, im sure ive picked up bad habits since then. it is as strict as the normal driving test, but youve got a trailer on the back.

theres a lot of stupid things you can fail the test on. like when your asked to unhitch the trailer, if you unhitch it correctly, but dont ask the examiner if hed like you to remove the number plate from the trailer, you will fail.

you also have to watch your speed and make sure you only do 50mph on 60mph A roads, and only do 60mph on 70mph duel carriageways.

my work colleague who was also put through the test, failed on the reversing manoeuvre as nerves got the better of him, and he hadnt done much reversing with trailers. Smile
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trailer guy
Articulating


Joined: 19 Feb 2009
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Location: Hampshire


1994 Land Rover 110

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject: Torque Settings for popular wheel nuts & bolts Reply with quote

Some trailer wheel nut and stud sizes and their recommended torque settings, may be of use to some of you.

Wheel Nut Size - Torque Setting
3/8" UNF - 42lbft / 57Nm
7/16" UNF - 50lbft / 67Nm
1/2" UNF - 56lbft / 76Nm
5/8" UNF - 85lbft / 115Nm
M16 - 85lbft / 115Nm

Wheel Bolt Size
M12 - 55lbft / 74Nm
M14 - 60lbft / 81Nm

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matstar89
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Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldnt aggree more with needing lessons!
A quick note with regards to dollys, I work for a leading breakdown/recovery company,we recover cars on the vrs (basically a braked dolly) not only to a place of safety but 100s of miles to save on the costs of putting them on a truck.
The only requirement is that the vehicle is actually broken down or not safe to drive, which i suppose rules out using it to transport from a to b but then i suppose as long as you stop your car/truck/whatever you have on the dolly from starting then whos to say where that place of safety is??
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TarkMalbot
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Odometer: 394
Location: Carlisle


1996 Daihatsu Fourtrak

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I did my test earlier this month and now have B+E status! Wink

I used a triple axle cattle trailer which was massive for driving around on the tight roads of the inner city but was actually good for reversing.

One main tip for anyone thinking about doing it is make sure you look in the opposite mirror to where you are turning just before you do it as your trailer kicks out slightly and if you don't look you will fail as there is a potential for your trailer to hit a car on that side.

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ROG.
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Joined: 06 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained Reply with quote

First post - hope it helps...

Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained


I have extensive knowledge on this issue and already have a trailer towing clinic HERE

Trailers over 3500 kgs plated MAM weight come under different rules which is why all the trailers towed by B class vehicles , those of 3.5 tonnes and under, are not plated at more than 3500 kgs or 3.5 tonnes MAM

Trailers without plates use the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS to determine the MAM.
A rating of 66 on 4 tyres would give a MAM of 1200 kgs.

Vehicles in the B licence category will have the following information on a plate in the vehicle, in the handbook or on the V5 form.
Information can also be found on many internet vehicle specification sites.
Unladen or Kerb weight - although there is a slight difference in the two it is not that much
GVW - the max weight the vehicle can weigh when fully loaded
GTW - the max weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
Towing capacity - this is the ACTUAL weight that can be towed by the vehicle - it does not mean the trailer MAM weight.
None of the above weights must be exceeded

Some vehicles have a GVW, a towing capacity and a GTW. In such a case the GTW takes priority over the GVW and towing capacity when added together

FOR B+E LICENCES

Where a towing capacity is listed then this would be a legal example:-
CAR has GVW of 2000 and a towing capacity of 1800
TRAILER has a MAM of 3500 and an unladen weight of 1000
The trailer can be loaded with a maximum weight of 800

Where there is not a towing capacity listed then the GTW is used
GTW minus the GVW does not give the towing capacity unless the vehicle is fully laden
EXAMPLE: -
VAN has GVW of 3500 and GTW of 6000
TRAILER has MAM of 3500
The van and trailer can weigh 3000 each and be legal

FOR B LICENCES
The Gov sites are not that good at explaining this so I have managed to find a simple way of determining whether a driver can tow something on a B only licence -

To tow over 750 kgs with a B licence you need to say NO to the following:-
Is the plated MAM of the trailer more than the UNLADEN/KERB/EMPTY weight of the towing vehicle?
Does the GVW of the towing vehicle plus the plated MAM of the trailer add up to more than 3500 kgs?
Is the ACTUAL weight of the empty trailer and its load more than the listed towing capacity?

Example of legally towing over 750 kgs with a B licence - made up figures but not that far from what can be found....

Towing vehicle -
Unladen/empty/kerb = 1500
GVW = 2000
Towing capacity = 1800

Trailer -
Unladen/empty = 800
MAM = 1500 (Perhaps originally a 2000 MAM but downplated by manufacturer so it conforms to B licence towing)

Load trailer with 700 max

Reasons it is legal for towing on a B licence -
The 1500 MAM of the trailer is not more than the 1500 unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
The 2000 GVW of the towing vehicle plus the 1500 MAM of the trailer is not more than 3500
The towing capacity/actual weight being towed does not exceed 1800

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing rule

I hope this helps those who are unsure of the rules
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cleggy
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Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Towing Reply with quote

So i want to buy a VW transporter so the unladen weight is 2000kg the GTW is 5200kg the pay load is 1224kg my trailer is 550kg my offroader is 1800kg the trailer marked up at 2700kg so would it be legal i just cant get my head around it and yes can tow this weight as i am old.
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Xpajun
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Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Transporter = 2000
Plated weight of trailer = 2700

Gross Train weight = 4700

Allowing you a payload of 500 in the transporter

But

Plated weight of trailer = 2700
Weight of trailer = 550
Gives a 2200 payload
weight of offroader = 1800
give an additional payload allowance of 400 on the trailer

you could have the trailer down rated to 2300 which would allow you an extra 400 in the transporter making a max 900 payload but you can't use the max Transporter payload and tow the trailer and be legal - even if the trailer was empty
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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
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Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp?make...orter%201.9%20TDi

It also depends on which model, just to muddy the water slightly.

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cleggy
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Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: towing Reply with quote

Thanks for the replay as the van will be for pleasure(campervan) do the laws applay the same
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