FORUM CLASSIFIEDS DIFFLOCK.com Links & Networks
Forum Homepage
Log in
Profile
Search
Private Messages
Forum Members
Register
Classified Ads
Search Ads
Place New Ad
My ads
Place your classified
ads here for FREE
NB: Adverts placed in the general
forum areas will be deleted
Difflock Homepage
Online Shop
Contact Us
FAQ
Calendar
Garage
Facebook
Twitter
Youtube
Advertise With Us - Reach your target market by advertising on the Difflock.com forum.
Click here or call 0845 125 9407


404 clutch

 
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> Mercedes & Unimog
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TigerMog
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Odometer: 88
Location: Marchwood



PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: 404 clutch Reply with quote

I went out for a play day today and got the Mog in WAY deeper than I had intended. Now the clutch is far from happy with me. It just barely works. I have to shut it down at lights, start it up on the green light and go as it is already slipping. If I try to hold it to a stop with the brakes, it dies.

I am a fair hand with a spanner, but I have never dug into the clutch on a Mog before. It looks a fair bit more involved than any I have done before. Any suggestions, tips, or tricks on how to tackle cracking open the clutch? Anyone had to sort out a hyrauliced clutch on one before? Did it sort itself out with time? Or permanently shagged? Any suggestions would be well appreciated.

__________________________________
cheers,
Dan

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TigerMog
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Odometer: 88
Location: Marchwood



PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and yes, by way deeper than I intended I mean my **** was wet in the cab as water flowed through ! But hey ho, once you start in you are fairly committed to try and make it through....
__________________________________
cheers,
Dan

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike97
Guest








PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dan,

Sounds like the clutch is not fully disengaging, if your lucky you might get away with adjusting the linkage rod between the pedal and release arm, how much free play have you got on the clutch pedal?.

Chances are the clutch is on its last legs, they are a bit of a weak point on 404's. It is possible to replace the clutch without removing the cab, but its tricky, I found it easier to lift the cab off then pull the engine.

mike
Back to top
normalbloke
Articulating


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Odometer: 633




PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,have a look if you have a hole in the bottom of the bellhousing( which is supposed to be bunged prior to wading)?I know mine is a U1000 so is quite different, but I had some issues after the deep sandy water of Slab Common.I eventually hosed the clutch housing out with clean water several times with the engine running, and all has been fine since.Mine was not slipping, but the pedal action was getting way too heavy.It may not come to anything but may be worth trying before you rip it apart.
Where did you go to get it in that deep? I do hope you got a few pics!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TigerMog
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Odometer: 88
Location: Marchwood



PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will definitely have a go with the garden hose and fresh water. It certainly cant hurt at this point I think! Hopefully the whole bellhousing is packed with mud and crap and I can flush it out. I kind of figured I would have to pull cab and engine to change the clutch and was not looking forward to that. One peek tells you your not dropping the driveshafts and sliding the gear box back like a normal rig. But I was hoping for an easy fix......so fresh water, a play with the linkage, and hope for the best!
__________________________________
cheers,
Dan

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TigerMog
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Odometer: 88
Location: Marchwood



PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yeah...it was at the Muddy Bottom play site. After last weeks rains it was a real swamp!
__________________________________
cheers,
Dan

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dave404
Gate Opener


Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Odometer: 29
Location: somerset



PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chances are the friction plate is sticking to the splined input shaft of the gearbox, where the water and mud has got into the clutch assembly. Hose out the clutch as Normalbloke suggests, then once your happy all the debris has been cleared, blow it out with an airline. Finally try to apply a little light oil (WD40), to the splined shaft where it goes through the friction plate whist pumping the clutch pedal. Apply it there and nowhere else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theres a bolt on cover on the passinger side bell housing you might be able to get to it you can hose it out from there and might even be able to check the clutch plate
__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TigerMog
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Odometer: 88
Location: Marchwood



PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thing is really frustrating me because it doesnt make a lot of sense....to me at least...in what it is doing. I have taken the access plate off of the top passenger side and flushed it with water, I have readjusted the linkage, and I still have problems. What screws with me, is that the problem is that the clutch is gripping, not slipping. Even with the clutch adjusted out to the top of the pedal it STILL grabs and creeps forward if I am not standing on the brakes. But it DOESNT do this if i engage the transfer case/front axle. If I engage the front end..all works fine. Didnt want to do it...but I think I am looking at having to pull the cab and truly crack it all open for a look inside.
__________________________________
cheers,
Dan

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That indeed sounds very wierd! The 4wd has nothing to do with the clucth. hmm.. My brothers 404 has had problems with the clutch aswell. This turned out to be the hub of the friction plate hitting the springs and arms on the pressure plate! Mercedes quality anybody? Smile
__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats a tricky one! - until you said about the four wheel drive bit - I was going for a partially seized bush in the centre of the flywheel which tries to turn the input shaft regardless of the clutch. I have had this with a lot of mud and water. But the four wheel drive bit doesnt tie up!
Does it make any difference whether you are in the low part of the box (1st 2nd Rev) or the high part 3 4 5 6? and did the box itself get water in?

__________________________________
Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mogmaner
Winch Assistant


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Odometer: 91
Location: NOTTINGHAM



PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:25 am    Post subject: clutch Reply with quote

check your bell housing bolts havent come loose had a simler thing on a van was worse when turning box and engine were going out of alinment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dave404
Gate Opener


Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Odometer: 29
Location: somerset



PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigermog, I was convinced about the friction plate sticking to the splines of the input shaft, but the thing with the FWD puts it in a different light. I'm going to agree with you about lifting the cab. It looks daunting but can take only a couple of hours.
s.frimodt, Re. your brothers clutch. I think you'll find he has the friction plate the wrong way round. The splined hub is offset and the greater portion of it should point towards the engine.

http://www.expedition-imports.com/category/unim...e_plate_failures/


Last edited by dave404 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grease monkey
Gate Opener


Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Odometer: 29
Location: salisbury



PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi dan how did you get on with the 8 speed conversion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TigerMog
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Odometer: 88
Location: Marchwood



PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input. It does help even if nothing more than to convince myself I am not losing my mind here.

Dave: I still think you may be right on the friction plate sticking. I have one thought left and that is that by engaging 4 wheel drive there is more pressure/drag put on everything which forces the clutch to slip as it should. Maybe I am stretching to try to find some logic, but that is all I can think of....more drag on more gears etc etc gives just enough pressure to make things work right. If there is just a bit of mud and crap on the shaft the extra drag is enough to force the clutch to spin through it? In 2 wheel drive the pressure of the mud and crap gives more friction than the drag of the gears.

I have been a wuss to put it simply. I dont have a garage big enough to pull the truck into and with weather as it has been I have just not really dug into it as I should have. I like playing in the mud, but not laying in it!

8 speed conversion is great and loving it.

The gear box was well under water/mud. My **** was under water inside the cab! All flushed out now and new lube put back in.

Maybe if a ray of sun comes out this weekend I will dig a bit further. I know it may not be smart, but I have long favored the "fix it **** it" thought process when things were partially wrong. Hose it out good and drive the heck out of it until it rights itself or has total failure and forces me to tear it apart.

__________________________________
cheers,
Dan

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s.frimodt, Re. your brothers clutch. I think you'll find he has the friction plate the wrong way round. The splined hub is offset and the greater portion of it should point towards the engine.

http://www.expedition-imports.com/category/unim...failures/[/quote]

Thanks for the Input dave, but that wasn't the case. When we took it apat it didn't look as though it had been apart since it left the factory. And with only 24000km. on the clock I doubt it. We checked in my Factory Mercedes Unimog repair manual and it was indeed mounted the right way. But he had the "star" looking type clutch with four independent friction plates. When compared to my old "round" type. The hub looked very different in shape.
So if any of you where to change your clutch, I would recommend the round type as I have no sign of slipping even with my 120bhp engine and 49 inch tires.

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TigerMog
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Odometer: 88
Location: Marchwood



PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S. Frimodt,

OK now you have me curious. What have you done as far as mods to bump your M180 up to 120bhp?

__________________________________
cheers,
Dan

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi TigerMog. I didn't do anything to the bump the engine, I threw in this one:

It's a 2,3Liter M180 with a 9:1 CR, Dual carb's and a different cam profile.

I took apart the factory M180 to use the parts neccesary for the engine swap.
Then rebuild it.

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TigerMog
Winch Assistant


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Odometer: 88
Location: Marchwood



PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the clutch is more or less sorted now. It is working properly although I still get an occasional squeal and complaint. I stuck a pressure washer in the access cover hole on top and just let the water run as I worked the clutch in and out for about 15 minutes then drove the truck for about an hour. I am going to stick with the theory of crap on the splined shaft causing the friction plate to hang up OR crap embedded into the friction plates themselves. Still probably need to pull it apart and have a proper look, but I have decided that when I pull the engine to do the clutch, there will be an OM617A 5 Cyl diesel going back into the old girl.
__________________________________
cheers,
Dan

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
normalbloke
Articulating


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Odometer: 633




PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,
Thats pretty much what happened with mine.The bung hole allows you to fill the bellhousing with water as the engine is running,then work the pedal to flush any parts that may be covered with the clutch engaged.I also tried to lubricate the TOB with a fine pipe attached to a can of coppergrease.Seems OK, now and the clutch has never been lighter.I was paranoid about contaminating the friction plate with lube.What I need to do is buy a cheap boroscope,as I do not have the luxury of an inspection panel on the U1000.
Good luck!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> Mercedes & Unimog All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can post calendar events in this forum
Oil Safe

Facebook

Adrian Flux 2023

Service Kits

Specialist Tools

Join our mailing list for upcoming events, special offers, discount coupons and expert advice on the latest 4x4 products!

* indicates required





    
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group