View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
traily Gate Opener
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Odometer: 4 Location: Elgin, Scotland
|
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: water cans
|
|
|
I have just acquired a couple of black plastic MoD water cans and was wondering the best way to disinfect/clean them. Also what is the best way to store them when not in use i.e. lids on or off, full or empty.
Many thanks...
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
spannerman69 Mud Obsessed
Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Odometer: 2807 Location: st.helens
|
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
i found the best way to clean out my water bottles is to use the same stuff you`d use on a baby`s bottle ,, those sterilizing tablets . 6 in each and give them a good shake and then leave to stand over night , give them a good rinse out and store with the tops on.
__________________________________ member of the dcjc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SimonWH Guest
|
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Hi
we'll be covering this subject in the next magazine. Black plastic containers are perfect for water, never be tempted to use jerry cans or white/transparent containers.
As for cleaning you can use milton which is a safe disinfectant they use for baby bottles etc, or you can use chlorine in some water and swish it around a bit. Or if its just for cleaning put some baking soda in water and swish that around. If you don't happen to have baking soda you can use dishwasher tablets which are obviously safe to use for eating/drinking utensils.
Store them with the lids ON. The only way to stop mould forming is to keep light out, mould and other nasties can't grow without light, which is why you should always use black containers.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
traily Gate Opener
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Odometer: 4 Location: Elgin, Scotland
|
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: Thanks
|
|
|
I had thought about Milton solution, but must admit dishwater tablets sound like a good idea. Many thanks guys.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Anthony Off-Road Guru
Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Odometer: 1640
|
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I have 4 Black Plastic NATO Jerry Cans which I guess I have had around 15 or so years or their about. They are far safer than white as said or clear plastic, because of microorganisms. I used a similar product to most or lots of boiling water and well flushed out.
__________________________________ Anthony |
|
Back to top |
|
|
rhysman1 Gate Opener
Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Odometer: 13 Location: Haverfordwest
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Hi, i have recently left the army, we used to clean the black army jerry cans with chlorine tablets, just make sure you wash out thoroughly afterward as you may get a small amount of taste.
We used to store cans empty, with lids on too stop dirt getting inside after cleaning.
Tip - place a small piece of plastic bag under both lids before closing to stop leaking as the cans don't have rubber seals! saves your kit and equipment getting damp!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
sprout Gate Opener
Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Odometer: 15 Location: county durham
|
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:47 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Yes, i use the milton tablets. pop 6 tablets in and leave for half an hour.
However, a word of warning. Many places are now stocking milton fluid. this does do the same job ( only you use 12 capfull's of fluid ) but be very carefull,when neat, this fluid will bleach anything that it comes into contact with, so keep a damp towel handy, and dont wear expensive clothing when using it. like i did!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
ooky_123 Just got MTs
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Odometer: 236 Location: Andover, Hampshire
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:34 am Post subject:
|
|
|
you can also use bleach .. dilute 1:100 the cheap you can buy from yoru local store and make sure you rinse it thoroughly.
I always rinse with hot water / washing up liquid first to remove any non-ionic debris, then rinse well, before sterilising.
It may be sterile, but no one wants to have a mouthful of anything except water !!....
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:58 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Im bemused by the fact that so many have said not to use transparent water carriers.
UV light is a fantastic bacteriacide
it is taught regularly to survival students and aid agencies as a simple low tech way of cleaning water.
as for closing the water containers, i leave mine open , a dry container conatins no media for the bacteria to grow, whereas an closed one forms condensation.
as for bacteria needing light to grow . nonsense
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:02 am Post subject:
|
|
|
should have added that the military make black and green containers to blend with the kit.
no hocus pocus involved.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:13 am Post subject:
|
|
|
If you want some chlorine, drop me a PM, have loads of the stuff for the swimming pool. Can pop a tiny amount in an enveople for you.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
jmpc Gate Opener
Joined: 27 Oct 2009 Odometer: 29
|
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
terence bantha fodder wrote: | Im bemused by the fact that so many have said not to use transparent water carriers.
UV light is a fantastic bacteriacide
it is taught regularly to survival students and aid agencies as a simple low tech way of cleaning water.
as for closing the water containers, i leave mine open , a dry container conatins no media for the bacteria to grow, whereas an closed one forms condensation.
as for bacteria needing light to grow . nonsense |
Is this thread now going to stop here!!!??? Simon - what about what terrence has just said? He has totally contradicted you. I have no idea who is correct, but seeing as youre going to be doing an article about this very topic are you not now concerned you may be misleading readers.
I suppose those who read the article imagine they are writtin with some authority of research or knowlege?
Lets see a reply to what terrence has said.
Which is is, transparent or black cans??
__________________________________ all the best
JMPC |
|
Back to top |
|
|
northumberlad Guest
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I thought NATO water cans are black to stop Alge growth as they might have to be stored full outside in the sun for a while.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
excossack Mud Obsessed
Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Odometer: 2903 Location: Somewhere
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Why cant you use white water containers like the type you buy in camping shops etc.
With black containers if they get exposed to sun doesnt black attract heat and therefor give you warm water, if so wouldnt that increase the chances of things growing??
__________________________________ Thanks - John |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
algae maybe because it inhibit photosynthesis, but it wont stop bacteria
they are black because they blend with the kit
injection moulded plastic made from recycled materials is cheaper and easier to produce when black in colour.
UV water filters are used on household domestic supplies, if the darkness theory had any merit they would be a waste of time.
As for clear water containers, seems the BS kitemarks on the ones i saw in the chandlers the other week must be magic ones....
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Let Luce Mud Obsessed
Joined: 11 Dec 2002 Odometer: 4018 Location: Derbyshire
1977 Land Rover 101
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Clear or translucent containers turn green after a while with algal growth, black ones don't.
I've not researched this but I strongly suspect that the UV from sunlight is not strong enough to function as an effective disinfectant method. If it was why do folk get sick drinking river water, as that's exposed to sunshine all day, and this often occurs in countries with far stronger sunshine than we get in the UK.
I suspect that the clear vs dark plastic choice has more to do with the uv resistance of the material and it's longevity.
I have 4 black ones myself, they worked fantastically for the year long trip down to Cape Town.
Disinfect with a bit of Milton, or cheep own brand equivilent before you use them and leave them with the lids on so they don't get lost.
__________________________________ Landrovers; a full time occupation
www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
people get ill from drinking river water because they arent clever enough not to wash, **** ,and **** in their water supply.
UV doesnt kill cysts and protozoa
the expose to strong sunlight is used in countries with lots of it, and it proves effective
black water containers attract More UV light and solar radiation than clear ones so would degrage quicker if that theory were tested.
a little known fact that a barrel filled with layers of gravel and charcoal, then allowed to stand in sunlight for 4-6 hrs proved 100 % effective in trials
my inner conspiracist believes that the aid agencies dont want the locals learning this because their ceramic water filters and chemicals have value and stand to make their sponsors quite wealthy...
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
i forgot
another plus for the transulscent containers is they dont heat up in the sun as quickly.
warm water can harbour legionaires disease and pontiac fever
especially in plastic containers
depends where you are in the world really.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
ed Mud Obsessed
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
OK.
Black stops algae growth - not bacterial
White or clear plastic containers will remove most of the UV rays (not light - that is visible spectrum only) so that in even the sunniest parts of the world it will not have any disinfection property.
Sunlight will not kill alot of bacteria in water - the water itself stops a lot of the UV to start with. It might work in limit parts with small shallow samples. The act of the water getting upto >60C in the back of a car etc will have as much effect as sunlight.
UV water disinfection normal uses 2 uv sources one at around 250nm and the other at 180ish (if memory serves me right). Both of these are delived at greater intensity than in natural solar sourced UV. The UV knackers (scientific term that you know) the DNA of bactria and virus stopping them from reproducing/replication/what ever you want to call it - it does not kill them outright (mostly).
However, it isn't so good against cysts fromers as the coating protects the DNa from the UV - though by tweeting the frequency and delivery ther is some success on Crytpo and Giardia - not really practical for travel though.
__________________________________ So let's not talk of love and flowers
And things that don't explode |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ed Mud Obsessed
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
terence bantha fodder wrote: |
a little known fact that a barrel filled with layers of gravel and charcoal, then allowed to stand in sunlight for 4-6 hrs proved 100 % effective in trials
|
I be suspcious of these claims - the ACTIVATED charcoal may well help. In a barrel filled with gravel and charcoal the bacter etc are going to get very little exposure to UV. THe barrel wall, the gravel and the charcola are going to provide UV shade form the wee beasties.
1 part rough oak aged red wine to 4 parts water works quiet well - the alcohol to a limited extent but hte tannin in the wine works.
Or drink tea - boiled water and loads of tannin. As adviced by me and I should know as I deal with drainage for a living - and work for the council where tea is a compulsory drink.
__________________________________ So let's not talk of love and flowers
And things that don't explode |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
yes i wasnt very clear the charcoal filter is the first stage , the filtrate is allowed to stand in lexan tubes in direct sunlight.
another method is simply to bubble oygen through a mtarix on which the bacteria live, to allow nature to do what its does best
then add salt
then add sunlight , then evaporate and condense ...
just as mother earth does
if we didnt fill our atmosphere with junk ,rainwater would be the way forward.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
White or clear plastic containers will remove most of the UV rays (not light - that is visible spectrum only) so that in even the sunniest parts of the world it will not have any disinfection property.
water containers are usually HDPE which is a very simple composition and will allow a signicant amount of a large range of frequencies through it.
lexan allows 10 % which was enough for the water aid trial i was watching with interest.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
ed Mud Obsessed
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
terence bantha fodder wrote: | yes i wasnt very clear the charcoal filter is the first stage , the filtrate is allowed to stand in lexan tubes in direct sunlight.
another method is simply to bubble oygen through a mtarix on which the bacteria live, to allow nature to do what its does best
then add salt
then add sunlight , then evaporate and condense ...
just as mother earth does
if we didnt fill our atmosphere with junk ,rainwater would be the way forward. |
Makes more sense.
Bubble oxygen - just like and activated sludge sewage works or BAF/SAF package plant on smaller scale. Plus pure oxygen is pretty toxic to most organisms, for more than a short time.
Why add salt and bubble O2. O2 is very emergy intensive method and require kit.
If you got sunlight jsut go straight for a solar still and evapourate & condense. Simple no moving parts. But does requir lots of intense sunlight.
Rainwater? Depends where you are - anywhere with active volcanoes can be pretty nasty. Lots of sulphuric acid from the SO2 spewed out to start with.
^th floor office in Bradford this pm - can still my head out of the window and look down on the clouds.
__________________________________ So let's not talk of love and flowers
And things that don't explode |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
ed my model was based on the natural cycle from human waste to clean rainwater , the salt was the sea , evaporation then rainfall
PH and temperature are two factors that need further discusion as well
mother earth continually tries to tell us where its safe to live but we humans keep defying her
the sulfuric acid helps dissolve the rocks, releasing minerals, im certain humans werent part of that grand plan.
solar stills are fantastic but arent very efficient or portable , well in a size large enough to be of any practical use.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
LandyAndy™ Off-Road Guru
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Odometer: 1488 Location: Lancashire
1995 Land Rover Defender
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I use clear water container for my caravan water supply. They get locked away in the 'van, stored out of direct sunlight, usually empty (but not dry)with the lids on. They never get disinfected and have been in use for about four years.
Am I going to die?
I don't want to die.
I don't think I would like it.
Please help me.....
__________________________________ STOLEN----Defender 90 N195PAX-----0300hrs 13/9/12. Please contact Lancashire police with any info
Last edited by LandyAndy™ on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
LandyAndy™ wrote: | I use clear water container for my caravan water supply. They get locked away in the 'van, stored out of direct sunlight, usually empty (but not dry)with the lids on. They never get disinfected and have been in use for about four years.
Am I going to die?
I don't want to die.
I don't think I would like it. |
can you **** though a keyhole?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
LandyAndy™ Off-Road Guru
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Odometer: 1488 Location: Lancashire
1995 Land Rover Defender
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
terence bantha fodder wrote: | LandyAndy™ wrote: | I use clear water container for my caravan water supply. They get locked away in the 'van, stored out of direct sunlight, usually empty (but not dry)with the lids on. They never get disinfected and have been in use for about four years.
Am I going to die?
I don't want to die.
I don't think I would like it. |
can you **** though a keyhole? |
Err, never tried.
Could have a go and let you know if you like.
So, am I going to die if I can?
__________________________________ STOLEN----Defender 90 N195PAX-----0300hrs 13/9/12. Please contact Lancashire police with any info |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ed Mud Obsessed
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
LandyAndy™ wrote: | I use clear water container for my caravan water supply. They get locked away in the 'van, stored out of direct sunlight, usually empty (but not dry)with the lids on. They never get disinfected and have been in use for about four years.
Am I going to die?
I don't want to die.
I don't think I would like it.
Please help me..... |
Tough, you will eventually.
Although it could be that nasty 4x4 of yors killing the planet that does for you.
__________________________________ So let's not talk of love and flowers
And things that don't explode |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Let Luce Mud Obsessed
Joined: 11 Dec 2002 Odometer: 4018 Location: Derbyshire
1977 Land Rover 101
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
terence bantha fodder wrote: |
my inner conspiracist believes that the aid agencies dont want the locals learning this because their ceramic water filters and chemicals have value and stand to make their sponsors quite wealthy... |
Fair point well made, they have to pay for their brand new Land Cruisers some how don't they.
__________________________________ Landrovers; a full time occupation
www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ed Mud Obsessed
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Odometer: 4312
|
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
terence bantha fodder wrote: | ed my model was based on the natural cycle from human waste to clean rainwater , the salt was the sea , evaporation then rainfall
PH and temperature are two factors that need further discusion as well
|
along with dilution factors, turbidity and COD & BOB.
Facinating stuff.
As for small scale rural sewage treatment - reedbeds are great. However, they are very labour intensive to maintain.
And them sludge to land (as long as not from a heavily industralised source) - used to to that for a living.
__________________________________ So let's not talk of love and flowers
And things that don't explode |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|