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Haynes

Patrol vs Shogun/Pajero vs Landcruiser

 
 
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calum1981
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Odometer: 8




PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Patrol vs Shogun/Pajero vs Landcruiser Reply with quote

Ok, this isn't so much a VS thread, as just a bit of a question from a potential buyer.

I used to own a completely stock jeep cherokee 4L, and regularly took her offroading wherever i could.
With no mods, no lift and standard tyres she used to do better than most other offroaders I came across. the only problem being the long wheel base.
Onroad the cherokee was very thirsty, but powerful as hell, and handled like an average car.

Now its a few years down the line, and i'm after another offroader.
I've been looking at short wheel base pajeros/shoguns as my 4x4 of choice, owing to offroad ability, onroad perormance size and cost etc.

question is, how will the shogun compare to my experience in the cherokee if it is totally stock.
though i would like to get some good offroad tyres on, and a bit of a lift, I just want to know if the shogun will be as good as the cherokee when it is completely stock.

Calum.


Last edited by calum1981 on Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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paul_humphreys
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
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Location: Oswestry Shropshire



PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Jeep would have had a LSD in the rear and it helps a lot. A LWB Shogun will have a rear locking diff and a import will have a LSD. If it was me I would go for a Shogun.

Paul

__________________________________
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paul_c
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Joined: 17 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I bought my Pajero, I looked at a Jeep too but dismissed it because it didn't have a separate chassis (was unibody construction). Whether this actually makes any difference is arguable, but I felt that underbody damage to a unibody car is more serious and harder to put right, whereas a chassis could cope with it.

In terms of ground clearance etc they aren't that different, standard. So I modified mine straight away by removing the steps, which makes it much better (those steps are vulnerable). Recently I've fitted a suspension lift kit and its make another big improvement. No longer does it scrape on stuff I was scraping all the time.

So, stock, they are equal, but with a few simple mods to a Pajero it can be made very effective. I don't know what similar mods are available to the Jeep so I can't say which is better or worse.
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calum1981
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

The power in the jeep really made it i think. 200bhp meant i could get up anything i could get traction on, though it did mean around 17mph on the roads.

i'd only be looking for a SWB shogun I did once or twice get the jeep grounded, though luckily was able to get back down again Smile

as for the engine on one i'm not too sure, diesel or petrol, something i will think about next anyhow.

how expensive is it to get a 2" lift on a shogun? can you do it for a reasonable price?
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paul_c
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Joined: 17 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends if you want to do it properly or not....a suspension kit is £400+, but this includes 4x dampers, 2x rear springs and 2x new torsion bars. If you didn't bother with the replacement torsion bars and used spring blocks instead of replacement springs, or used LWB stock springs in a SWB, it would be cheaper. And if you didn't even bother to replace the stock dampers (thus denying you extra articulation at the rear) it would be cheaper still (just the price of the rear springs). But then it would be lifted, but actually worse due to less flex due to the combination of stock shocks & spring blocks. All the above would give you more ground clearance though.
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bk
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Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Location: On one long non stop trip to oblivion



PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 4 litre jeep which has a 3" lift on and mud tyres etc and my mate who I go laning with has a bog standard swb shogun with no lift with 31" muds on,I can quite honestly say that they are both good offroaders but the only thing that lets the shogun down is its lack of ground clearance on the front axle and underbody,it just digs in all the time,however if you were to put either a body lift or suspension lift on with say 33" tyres on then I dont think there would be any problems with ground clearance on the shogun.The jeep suspension lifts can be very expensive depending on how high you lift it,I love my jeep and its been the most reliable offroader I have ever had,also my mate hasnt had any problems with his shogun either so its a case of ya buys what you like!!!
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jojo
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Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you did well with a Jeep then it seems that the person in the driving seat was doing OK. If that is the case then get a Disco, preferably automatic, and with some MTs, and if you really want it for appearance, trick it up a bit with lifted suspension etc, you will be able to beat them all.


J
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bk
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Location: On one long non stop trip to oblivion



PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the original question was whether it would be a jeep or a shoggie not a disco and a disco has even less below the diffs than a standard cherokee about an inch to be exact Very Happy...not everyone wants land rovers(not meaning to be funny)
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paul_c
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Joined: 17 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't really compare Disco and SWB Shogun - they're significantly different in terms of interior space, overhang and wheelbase length.
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Paul McCleary
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Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Odometer: 1994
Location: Junc 8 M53 Ellesmere Port.


1978 Volvo Torslanda

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shogun will give you less grief in the axle department if you lift it and run bigger tyres. The Jeep Cherokee with the Dana 35 on the rear can be troublesome on bigger tyres and suffer vibration broblems if not lifted correctly.
I've owned both and they both have there good and bad points.
Don't expect a Diesel Pajero/Shogun to be much more economical then a Petrol Jeep. My old 4.0 Stealth would average 18mpg round town and 24mpg on a run. My wifes 2.5TD SWB Pajero does 19mpg round town and 22mpg. Admittedly the Pajero in on 33" rubber but it only lost about 2mpg when compared to the standard size tyres.

The Shogun/Pajero has much better seats. than the Jeep as they offer far more support. I'm 6'1" and found the Jeep seats to be far to low on the back giving poor shoulder support. The rear bench in the jeep is quite low and makes you feel like you have your knees up by your ears.

The 4.0 Jeep motor tends to be bomb proof if serviced correctly. but the rads are weak and a blocked or deteriorated rad will eventually spell disaster for the motor.
The Pajero 2.5 has head cracking problems and is considered quite a weak engine by some. The 2.8 is regarded as a better and more reliable engine, but its not without its overheating problems!

Theres two schools of thought really. As you have already had a Jeep and variety is considered the spce of life then go for the Mitsubishi....However, sometimes it's a case of better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't, so maybe you should get the Jeep????

Either way they are both good cars if serviced and looked after correctly.Wink

Hope this helps.

Paul.Very Happy
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calum1981
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your replies guys, great stuff

as it turns out, i think i'm going to need a bigger vehicle anyhow... we already have two kids and there may be a third one on its way shortly Confused

whats it like getting in and out of the rear of a swb shogun, or would you just have to suck it and go lwb?
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paul_c
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Joined: 17 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

calum1981 wrote:


whats it like getting in and out of the rear of a swb shogun?


Rubbish! The seats tip and slide but even then, there's not much room to get in-out. And the seats IN THEORY should go back to the same position because they're supposed to have a memory. But in practice, they don't, and you need to readjust the seat to your preferred position each time. I'd not recommend one to anyone with more and 2 people to accommodate except for only very occasionally.
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idratherbesurfing
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

get something with a solid front axle. front end suspension and flex on shoggy/pajero is a joke
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calum1981
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul_c wrote:
calum1981 wrote:


whats it like getting in and out of the rear of a swb shogun?


Rubbish! The seats tip and slide but even then, there's not much room to get in-out. And the seats IN THEORY should go back to the same position because they're supposed to have a memory. But in practice, they don't, and you need to readjust the seat to your preferred position each time. I'd not recommend one to anyone with more and 2 people to accommodate except for only very occasionally.


cheers paul, swb shogun is out of the picture at the moment then.

my daily driver at the moment is an r33 skyline, so my kids are used to climbing in an out of awkward cars, but babies tend not to be quite so considerate :/

so then, how does a lwb shogun compare against a jeep?

I would prefer not to get a jeep again, though i really loved it, i would really like to try something different this time, plus the mrs always complained that the interior of the cherokee was "out of the 80's"!!!
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bk
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Location: On one long non stop trip to oblivion



PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres a thought,what about a GRAND cherokee??,coils all round,beam axles,same engine as a cherokee,four doors,very cheap to buy,lots of room for a pushchair Very Happy
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calum1981
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

had thought of a grand cherokee before tbh, but i really enjoyed how well the cherokee went offroad, so i'd probably just feel like i'd been conned into getting a very similar vehicle, with a bit less ruggedness.
never driven one though, so this could be completely wrong!

BK - please take your profile pic down, you're really tempting me into getting one again:/



i've also attached a pic of me in my old jeep, and yes it was really that steep! later on that week i had to help pull out a landrover 90 who got stuck at the base of that hill!!!
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bk
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Odometer: 405
Location: On one long non stop trip to oblivion



PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice one mate,just go get another jeep,you know you want to!!!! Laughing Laughing....oh and the facelift cherry(post 97) isnt as 80,s stylie on the dash as the older cherry...and there arent as many rust issues,jeep did summat to the body when they were built(galv i think??)....when mine dies I think ill just go and get another one...great motor(I cant afford a landcruiser or a TJ Laughing )
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k4
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Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a lifted grand is the way to go,its all steel bumpers now
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calum1981
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damn that grand cherry does look nice. how much did that lift-kit and those wheels cost you?

was looking at a newer jeep cherokee the other day as well, though the interior is much nicer, the Mrs still doesn't like it :/
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calum1981
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so one more question to ask...

It's been decided by the mrs that we need a 7 seater...

so that rules out a jeep really, now then, i've been looking through loads fo forums and the like, and the options seem like;

Nissan Patrol, Mitsubishi Shogun/Pajero or a Toyota Landcruiser.

From what i've read, the Patrol isn't very reliable and the Landcruiser is a bit overpriced and not great off road.
is this about right? would the best of the bunch be a shogun, or is there another one i've totally missed?
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paul_c
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Joined: 17 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The obvious one you've missed is a Discovery. I think LWB Isuzu Troopers also come with 7 seats, maybe as an option.

If you can cope with the looks, I'd seriously consider the Trooper, otherwise, Pajero. An outside option might be a Toyotal Land Cruiser Prado, they were never available in the UK but its a station wagon luxury version of the 70 series Land Cruiser, which have a justified reputation for good off road ability and ruggedness. The overhang is quite long though, and also they are rare and (secondhand) parts might be a problem to find.
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Overlander
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Joined: 12 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not know where you get your info on the patrol. Except for the very early 3.0 patrols they are pretty bomb proof with the added advantage that the chassis and gearbox cannot be touched, beam axles all round. Personally my own patrol has covered nearly 50,000 miles with nothing but oil changes.
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calum1981
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul_C>
to be honest I don't really like the look of the disco, nice car though it is, it just doesn't do it for me.
I'd also heard bad things about the trooper offroad, though not sure how accurate this is.

Overlander>
I heard that the ZD30 engine was prone to failure around 1998-2000. Love the look of the patrol, even the earlier model around the 1995 mark.
sauce:
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=40505...0d85d58fb911e936a


Landcruisers from what I have seen do seem a bit overpriced, not sure how the overhang on a patrol or shogun would compare, would expect them to be less. Overhand was probably the only problem I had on my old Cherokee, (other than turning into a see-saw once or twice Razz )
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dodewalker
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, i read your opening post. Still not sure about what kind of offroading you need it to do.
How often & how serious, & is the onroad ability & fuel consumption more important than the off-road ability?
I would rather have a Jeep than a Mitsubishi.
& a Izuzu Trooper is not much different purchase price or parts wise.

You seem to be reading that the probably most reliable offroader in the world have engine problems, the Nissan Patrol, & the Toyota Land Cruiser is too expensive.
Any make of vehicles can have problems, but i look for ones that have had the repairs done.
Do you mean models made around 1998-2000 are prone to failure now in 2009? or they used to fail?

well dont get one of those then, or get one that failed & got an engine rebuild.
Its not something i have ever come across, surely they were recalled,
& whatever the problem was, got rectified.

There are examples of every model in all price ranges on
www.autotrader.co.uk
Toyotas prove to be a good purchase because you can often get your money back if you buy well.
There is lots of bargains everywhere. Cash is king.
george
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Overlander
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the UK all the early 3.0 engines were replaced. Seems madness that one of their larger markets australia they never done it and let them fail. But on saying that there are many early 3.0 models running around with 300,000K + on the clock with no problems. So if you buy a Uk car you should have no problems but also remember that 98-99 could have the 2.8 in it and not the 3.0.
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Terranosaurus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landcruisers come in 2 flavours Amazon (live front axle) and Colorado (Torsion bar IFS) - worth bearing in mind if you're not a fan of IFS, that said IFS trucks can be made to work, you just need to allow the front to roll and have the flex in the back end.
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