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404 Diesel
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mike97
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:30 pm    Post subject: 404 Diesel Reply with quote

Hi folks,
I've been offered a Merc G wagon diesel engine - 3L 5cyl OM 617 i think. and been wondering how well it might fit into a 404? After a quick search on the net I found a guy in Germany who sells a conversion kit, but its over two grand for the special bellhousing - ouch. too much for me.
So i'm thinking more about a home brew conversion plate/ adaptor?

Has anyone else fitted this engine?? what pros and cons might i be up against?
Many thanks in advance
Mike
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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

try doing a search this has been done quite a few times and theres plenty of info in what fits and the probs with the mog bell housing
__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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mike97
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep the engine i have been offered is a non turbo, Im not looking to make the mog any faster, but I like the benafits of a diesel when off road ie, more torque at low revs, smooth running at any angle, and some better economy would be nice bonus too?
Ill do some searching through the old forums to see what others have done.
all good fun Rolling Eyes
mike
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dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not use the d240 clutch and graft input shafts? hell of a lot less mess than turning fly wheels?
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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres a idea the 411 uses the 636 engine could it be swaped out for any of the bigger merc deisel engines im not worried about body work there isnt any but would like a bolt in solution
that way if you found the 411 bell housing you could fit that directly to a 404 and fit the diesel lump in

__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried and tested then Wink
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Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, I have also been looking around for a viable Diesel for the Mog, The problem is that most of the decent and available diesels – like the landrover 200 tdi have the manifolds on the LHS – just where you legs want to be. Now nothing is impossible but shifting manifolds over is a lot of work.
My possible salvation – and I say possible because it is not running yet!! Has come by way of an Iveco/ Fiat 2.5tdi 8140.47 motor from a Ducato 3.5 tonne van. This engine is mounted transversly and has nothing on the front bar the fuel pump. All the manifolds are on the back or right hand side. I have a big issue with this because my previous engine was a Ford York with LHS exhaust which melted my boots when pulling timber!
The Iveco gearbox when emptied of its gears makes a nice spacer and with a bit of ingenuity spigots via an ally bush to pick up on the plate which bolts to the Mog engine. This plate in turn bolts to the Mog box and we all live happily ever after – I hope!
The only thing that was “difficult” was making the Iveco input shaft mate to the Mog – See Pic.
I have lots of phots which I will post when /if up and running!

__________________________________
Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
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mike97
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats some usefull info, cheers, well im now the proud owner of a 617 engine with G wagen flywheel clutch and gearbox. Plan is to use G flywheel, clutch and bellhousing and make an adaptor plate between bellhousing and 404 gearbox. Dennis - any pics of this setup please? Did you rotate the engine to help clear bodywork?

Also thinking that when engine is fitted, if I find the n/a is lacking horses, its not too much bother to then swop to the 617a (turbo) at a later date!

Mike
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mike97
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dennis,
Yep some photos would be really helpfull, thanks. I assume for the clutch linkage you do away with the mog set up and go hydraulic using the merc. release arm, bearing and slave cylinder and fit a new master cylinder linked to the pedal?

Turnip - That conversion using the Iveco engine looks great, like you say its tricky to fine an engine with inlet/ exhaust on one side. Let us know how the conversion goes, looking forward to seeing the pics.

Mike
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mike97
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Work in progress....
G wagen gearbox, bellhousing removed and offered upto mog gearbox..


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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any progress Mike?
__________________________________
Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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mike97
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
yes making slow progress. The engine needed a bit more work than i hoped, re-bore, new pistons and a crank re-grind. Just in the process of putting it all back togeather. With that done I can get on with the bellhousing / gearbox adaptor, will post pics when made more progress.

Dennis, any pics of your set up please?

cheers Mike
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mike97
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi gents,
Some progress, engine is almost finished, just need to fit ancillaries and its ready to go.
Started to make g.box adaptor today, I don't have access to any machine shop gear, so this is home brew engineering at its best! Next is to make a steel plate to bolt to the back of the bellhousing and then lots of carefull alignment/ measuring before it gets welded to the g.box plate. Also plan to tilt the engine 13degrees to help bodywork clearence.
Dennis, I was planning on using the stock G wagen tube to support the clutch release bearing, and then use the G release arm and slave cyl, hopefully keeping the whole clutch system standard G wagen?



regards Mike
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Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress on the Turnip Mog - I have now got the engine in and running. The results look promising. I have since found that this engine is common to the Fiat Ducato, Peugeot boxer and Citroen relay, It is called an 8140. 47 and depending on who you believe it dishes out about 120 bhp. Initial tests have been off road but the improvement is staggering (over a 4 cyl York thats not hard!!) The sump is well baffled and I have had approx 45 degree up and down and side slopes which make my **** twitch and no loss of oil pick up. The truck was always in 1st or second when off road and now is happy to do most places in 3rd. It is happy to pull away up hill in 3rd too. I havent a rev counter fitted yet but when the turbo chimes in I can hook 4th and it really flies.
Road tests soon! The engine fits a treat and the pics show the Ford adaptor by the Iveco, I have shoved the motor forward 7" so that the front is where the original would be. The body work on my Mog is a one off so I dont know what would happen on a std unit?

__________________________________
Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
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Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did the first road test with the Iveco 2.5 tdi motor in my 404. I went collect some IBC containers and managed to sneak on the weighbridge first! With this engine in and an ally tipper body she is spot on 3000kg.
So far this coversion seem to be really good, it goes like stink on the road now. I can pull one and sometimes 2 gears higher than I could with the previous Ford engine. I will venture further soon, but the indications are that I could refit the 12.50 x 20 tyres with this much power?
If anyone is looking to go diesel this really is worth consideration. I have all the pictures as I went along and drawings of most parts, the gearbox housing from the engine mates well with the Mog engine plate and perfect alignment is quite easy to achieve.

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Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
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mike97
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe its over a year ago when I started this thread, how time flys! Anyway got my **** into gear again and Im cracking on with the diesel conversion.
Cab off, petrol engine out, bellhousing off, custom adaptor fitted and G wagon bellhousing fitted.....



more soon
Mike
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you do some serious bracing and reinforcement of that bellhousing you've made, you will need some other connections between engine and gearbox. There's a loong way from the engine mount to the gearbox mount. How are you going about making the clutch hydraulic?, ie how are you planing to fit a mastercylinder?
__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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mike97
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soren,
Yes I am planning to fit some bracing bars that go from the bottom of the gearbox flange to the back of the engine. I cant fit the braces untill I get the engine in position and see what room there is by the round crossmember.
The clutch as you can see will be hydraulic, I think it will be strightforward mount a master cylinder next to the brake master cyl. and use the existing pedal - with reversed lever so it pushes on the new cylinder as opposed to the old pull system, hope that makes sence!

mike
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes perfect sense Smile Looking forward to the progress
__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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BEERBELLYKELLY
Gate Opener


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Odometer: 14




PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

really good info rich thread-makes me miss my mogs!im just going down the repower road with a cummins to a SUMB trans,im nowhere near,but threads like these and freely given info from folk like dennis and turnip are a real encouragement-keep hacking!
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mike97
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit more progress this weekend, got the engine in and bolted up to the bellhousing, then spent several hours making the front engine mount.


more soon
mike
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good, yes it can take an enormous amount of time, just to make a bracket Smile That is what people tend to forget.
__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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mike97
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Folks,
Some more interesting 617 conversion photos, courtesy of Dennis - lindenengineering.









mike
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mike97
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No trouble Dennis, and yes got mogpox Laughing

More progress, cab is back on, and it fits - just.

Drivers side, is good, no cab mods needed, might have to mod the cover slightly to clear the oil filter housing? (the looped oil pipe is only a temp arrangement)

Passenger side not so good, no chance of the standard G wagen inlet manifold fitting, unless I cut the whole floor out! So need to source a different manifold for the job.

more soon......
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THE DIGGER
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Odometer: 186
Location: Co wicklow, Ireland



PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike97 wrote:
Passenger side not so good, no chance of the standard G wagen inlet manifold fitting, unless I cut the whole floor out! So need to source a different manifold for the job.

more soon......


try get a 617a inlet manifold..turbo version of the engine you have, best bet is in the states via ebay as this is where most of these engines where sold

even better get the exhaust maifold and turbo aswell when your at it as they bolt right on.
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what we did on my brothers 404 when we did the swap:

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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mike97
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soren, yes that was my first thought, to cut n shut the manifold, but I don't have access to a Tig welder or similar Crying or Very sad
Is that engine upright or tilted over??

Mick, yep I like that idea, the turbo manifold sits nice and close too the engine. Hopefully I have a 617a manifold on its way soon over the pond - thanks Dennis Wink

mike
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mike97
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bit more progress, a huge thanks to Dennis for shipping a 617A manifold over from the States - it fits perfect, with very little cutting of the passenger floor. The other bonus is using the inlet pipes from the old petrol engine, just had to cut down the metal pipe, easy.

The bolt in the top of the manifold is just a temp blank so I could get it running. Getting close now, just lots of small jobs left. Which is good, I've spent way too much time spannering and need to get out into the mud and play Rolling Eyes

more soon mike
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good Mike!
__________________________________
Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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mike97
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, its still got its Colorado muck, just the poor mobile photo makes its look better? Anyway soon to be covered in Dorset dirt! and don't mention VAT grrrrrrr.

Question for someone in the know - I noticed when connecting up the throttle linkage, on the back of the injector pump (between the pump and block near the throttle arm) there is a small threaded hole which goes right into the pump, looks like somthing was fitted there? but I don't know what. I can only guess its for a breather pipe? Anyone know? or shall I just plug it with a bolt and forget about it?
thanks
Mike
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