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4site4x4tyres.co.uk

More on my Edwardian Alldays & Onions
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rhinoman
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Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardD wrote:
Last night was momentous.
.
.
the car is done, complete, restored.


That is momentous, congratulations. With no more restoration articles we'll be needing plenty of event pictures Smile

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2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once I've got the garage cleared up I'll take some photos of the completed work.

Beamish looks like fun, anyone who's in the neighbourhood is welcome to pop by and chat.

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally remembered to bring my camera into the office to upload some pictures.

Last night I was pottering and fettling ready for a test run prior to going to Beamish on the 9th and I happened to take out the spark plugs to clean them. You may remember that I had terrible plug fouling problems which I identified as being caused by flooding the cylinders with fuel when trying to start the car. The plugs seemed to run a touch too cool which meant that they did not burn off the residues from the fuel which ultimately wrecked the plugs and made both running and starting terrible.

There was an odd thing last September; I bought Champion D21 plugs which are hotter than the D16/AB6s I had been using. This meant that the plugs should burn off residue faster and avoid the fouling problems. When the order arrived from The Green Spark Plug Company one of the plug boxes had the wrong plug in it! The replacement arrived too late so I ran with 3 D21s and 1 AB6. Fast forward to last night and I finally got around to putting in the new D21 and took out the 'old' ones and found they were a nice dry brown/black colour and the ceramic was perfectly clean. It seems the carburation is fine AND the residue is burnt off if I do a long enough run. I'll still use brake cleaner to start it from now on but its another indication I've got the settings about right.

Photos










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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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absquatulation
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some awful orange paint underneath there. I'm surprised you haven't painted that out.
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

absquatulation wrote:
There's some awful orange paint underneath there. I'm surprised you haven't painted that out.


There is still but now the big stuff is out the way I can spend nice summer evenings between events getting it all rubbed down primed and painted. Mind you with the amount of oil and grease chucked around just getting it clean is a challenge!

I'm going to be replacing the control rods as I go as well.

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

where do you get the tyres?
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/
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** GED **
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do they perish or wear out first?
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No idea, not had them long enough nor done enough mileage yet.

These ones are 2 years old and have done about 700 miles. They need inner tubes so a bit of side wall cracking is not a problem. The old ones (Firestone) were 30 years old and although a cracking on the side wall they seemed ok until you tried driving in the wet Shocked Shocked Shocked

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can you imagine trying to restore it 40 years ago?

no internet to help find things and no up to date technological breakthroughs in materials
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can and oddly enough it was, in some respects easier.

This is a standard conversation at VCC events where the guys who were restoring 40 or 50 years ago say how much easier it was then.

40+ years ago there were a lot more of these vehicles being restored, they were a lot cheaper/less valuable, parts could still be found and there were loads of guys around with the skills learned in the 40s and 50s.

Apart from the friction material in the brakes and the coil conversion which would not have been needed 40 years ago, there is no modern tech, no modern materials or construction methods. Everything has been done the old fashioned way using traditional styles, materials and methods.

I, personally, would have been unlikely to have managed to restore it without the internet but those with more engineering skills or closer to Club resources did have. My hat is off to the guy in SA who reassembled it using a dodgy old photo and a faxed line drawing.

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, of course, 40 years ago I was 7 years old and too obsessed by The Beatles, Porsches, Debbie Harry and Brotherhood of Man to think about restoring cars Laughing Laughing
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jojo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardD wrote:
And, of course, 40 years ago I was 7 years old and too obsessed by The Beatles, Porsches, Debbie Harry and Brotherhood of Man to think about restoring cars Laughing Laughing


Glad you've progressed from Porsches to decent cars. Debbie Harry, Oh yes, but respect the moderators!, Beatles and BH of M; you takes your choice!!!.

But back to Alldays and Onions, do they make BFGs in that tyre size?

J
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, my mistake, I meant Buck's Fizz ..... When those skirts came off Razz
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Xpajun
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1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardD wrote:
Sorry, my mistake, I meant Buck's Fizz ..... When those skirts came off Razz



Come on man Make your mind up Laughing Laughing Laughing
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Applause Applause Applause Applause

5 stars, sir, at least Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time for an update, and a wee story.

A couple of weeks ago now, when we had that weekend of gloriously warm weather my youngest daughter requested to be taken to a local shopping mall (Silverburn) with a couple of her friends. My eldest was being moody so I suggested to her that we go to the Glasgow Transport Museum for lunch after dropping Jemima and friends off. Perhaps not your normal day trip for a 16 year old girl but Kezia is a car fan, they make a mean mac n cheese there, and we would be going in the Alldays.

First was to get Jemima to get her friends' parents permission to be taken to the shops in "an old car". This was was duly sought and given although neither set of parents quite realised just how old the car was until they saw it Very Happy . And off we went.

The quickest route was down the M77 but the Alldays and motorways are a very bad mix so we pottered our way through Newton Mearns and Giffnock, turned left towards Pollok and on to Silverburn. Lots of the usual waves and stares and all very good fun except for one cyclist who assumed that because he had tilted his head that was enough to protect him from being splatted as we weaved into my lane. A discussion was had and he tried to claim some moral high ground until I told him to drop the attitude and accept he had made a mistake (I saw him do the same thing 3 more times - he was faster than us, mainly due to the traffic, honestly Shocked ) and either way it was his funeral - literally.

Anyway, into Silverburn's car park and off went 3 14 year olds with cash in their pockets and clothes to 'shop' for and away Kezia and I went to the Museum. Not a trip for the fainthearted as I had to navigate the city centre traffic and a 1 mile stretch of 50mph dual carriageway, but all went swimmingly. Into the car park and we found a space in direct line of sight of the security folk at the main door so all was good. I was going to ask if I could park it at the front door for safety but they pointed out that if it was the public would assume it to be an exhibit and fiddle with it!

As we walked in I asked if they could keep an eye on it and then had a 15 minute discussion about the car with all the people working there. Very cool. A walk round the Museum to be disappointed yet again at just how dumbed down it is (a 1903 Argyle with the suspension shackles STILL not sorted and a 'car wall' - why put cars 30m up on a wall!!!) and off for lunch, which was very nice indeed.

The drive home was great fun mainly because the traffic system means the route is much more direct (it took 35 minutes) but also because of a wee incident that just shows how great everyone can be. We were driving towards Thornliebank (about 2/3 of the way home) and the road is nice and wide, straight and slightly downhill with a junction towards the end https://goo.gl/maps/msPP5


I saw the lights change to green from a distance away and thought I'd have enough time to get through without having to slow down, however as I got nearer the lights changed with someone about to turn right in front of me and traffic ready to turn left on to the main road. In veteran terms this is an emergency stop and with me pulling levers and turning handles like a demented thing trying to stop I realised there was no chance whatsoever of stopping in time. Luckily the other drivers also realised it and they all just sat there, arms folded and waited as I panicked. The car did stop but with the back of the car some 4 feet over the white line and as it did everyone cheered and applauded before driving on their merry way with big smiles on their faces.

On a technical note, the car now starts really easily from cold, without any choke, using bake cleaner as starting fluid, once warmed up (after 5 miles or so) it runs brilliantly. From Thorniebank to my house is ~100m elevation and on even some of the biggest climbs it pulled 3rd gear. The last 3 mile run was in 4th gear all the way including a nasty wee rise which was a 1st gear struggle before the engine rebuild and 2nd afterwards.

This coming weekend (16th May) we're in Dumfries and area so look out for us all if you're in the area.

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very fine weekend driving around Dumfrieshire.

The normal VCC event format is as follows

arrive at a nice hotel/B&B and settle in before meeting everyone for drinks and a nice dinner.
Up promptly and have a full breakfast before heading out.
Drive for around an hour or so and stop for coffee and cake then drive another 90 minutes before stopping for a nice lunch.
After lunch (and possibly a tour of where you've stopped, you drive for another hour or so before getting back to base and having more tea & cake in anticipation of drinks and a very nice dinner.

Repeat for 2 - 7 days

This weekend was just brilliant; great company, great cars, virtually no rain and no mechanical problems whatsoever. I made a few discoveries, first was that I don't need to use any choke to get the car started even from stone cold and using either petrol or brake cleaner it fires up 2nd time (first time just pulls fuel through the carb). All it needs is the throttle held open so it catches. My current thought is to re-purpose the choke assembly as a fast running device or remove it altogether (its a recent cobbled together thing that is neither authentic nor pretty) in favour of a brass clamp affair on the hand throttle ring.

I'll have some fun making a clamp and see how that works before I make my decision but I also have to get on with making a sprag brake for hill starts - I need 3 hands and 3 legs to do a proper hill start at the moment. Sprag brakes started off as rods that dug into the ground like a shooting stick to prevent the car from rolling backwards. They caused a huge amount of damage to cobbles and tarmac and are not supposed to be used any more. The Alldays has a toothed ring around the transmission brake onto which a rod is lowered which jams against the teeth and prevent the car from rolling backwards even in neutral. As you drive forwards it bounces off the teeth and clacks until you lift it up. I have a design in mind but I need to get it finalised and made ready for July.



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RichardD
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a separate but related subject, one of the joys of these events is the chance to get hands on with some of the most arcane, unusual and oldest cars in the world.

I know a statement like that can be seen as pure hyperbole but at the weekend there were about 10 cars including mine (one of 4 remaining), a De Dion Bouton which is the oddest thing ever conceived to drive, a Swift 6hp which has been had the same owner for 59 years and 1902 Benz which should not exist! It is this car that has fascinated me since I first saw it last September.

Bought from the stand at the 1902 Paris Motor Show, it was cobbled together to showcase the new innovation from Benz - front mounted engines. Up to that point they had rear engine/rear radiator configuration which did not work well for obvious reasons and in 1902 moved the engine to the front but kept the radiator to the rear which was better but they also moved the radiator to the front to stop overheating problems. This particular car is the ONLY front engine, rear radiator car to be built and it was a conversion from rear/rear.

It's got a complicated story that someone else can tell but it is not, as one might imagine, a very reliable vehicle and has not been restored (at all!) and has a host a minor problems that the owner, David, is working on by himself. Like most of us he a determined and rugged individualist and is not keen to accept help but after a couple of silly reliability issues at the weekend a wee team of us help him and his daughter (a mechanical engineer) identify potential solutions to problems that have plagued the car for years. The unadulterated joy of being able to get 'hands on' with such a car and, even better, help keep it on the road. It is an honour.



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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently figured out, more by chance than design, that my Alldays starts perfectly from stone cold without any choke whatsoever so I can either repurpose the choke lever (nasty home made affair) as a fast runner or make a clamp that I can use as a 'stop' for the hand throttle lever. This needs to fit around the brass ring and clamp in place using a thumb screw affair so I can adjust its position. And it needs to be brass.

Obviously I will need to make it myself but I'm looking for design ideas.

The ring is 2cm wide, 4mm thick and the stem for the throttle lever needs to be about 2cm high. Ideally it should also fit totally around the ring so I don't lose it too easily!


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RichardD
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A recent discovery ...

I was cleaning the car ready for the Strathmore Vehicle Extravaganza at Glamis Castle and after a serious washing session The valve caps (the castle shaped plugs at the top of the engine) were filled with water. I reckoned that the most efficient way of drying them out was to run the engine. Imagine my surprise when I turned the engine over to hear bubbling sounds.

It turned out that the engine was losing a lot of compression simply by the spark plugs failing to seal properly. I tried tightening them, using different washers and even using different plugs with a slightly wider base which were better but still not perfect.

Once I looked closely I realised that the threaded hole for the plugs was tapered at the top so they were unlikely to ever have been sealing perfectly. Cue a visit to my favourite machine shop to get 4 new valve caps made.

Photos once I get the new ones back

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on the 'recent discovery' .....

The things one learns on the way through one's mechanical life; spark plugs are meant to be single use, you can buy replacement crushable washers for them and machine shops (precision engineers) get very excited when you tell them you expect to do some fitting to any new part you have made.

Forrest Precision Engineering have again seen me right with a fantastic job on making the new valve caps out of phosphor bronze. When I dropped in the old ones, Scott noticed that they seemed to be just a shade under the standard imperial size (about 0.8mm under) so we agreed that he should make them to the standard diameter and I could turn them down a touch, if needed, in my lathe at home. Sure enough, when I started working on cylinder 2 (Cyl1 is fine, making 65psi, which is very good) I had to turn the thread down by a bawhair (Bawhair: def'n the smallest unit of Scottish engineering measurement. English equivalent is approximately 0.678 of a gnat's chuff) to make a nice tight fit to maximise the chance of a gas tight seal. This had a knock on effect on the copper washers that I'd had made last year at great expense (7p each!) and I had to turn them down as well until I found I had standard ones to fit!

So Cylinder 2 took a decent amount of work to get a proper seal but eventually I got the compression up to a decent 55psi. Cylinder 3 was more of a faff and I couldn't get more than 25psi but after lots of diagnosis and fannying around with copper washers and testing it came up to 50psi which is close enough. Cylinder 4 proved that I was right to get the caps made to standard size because it needed no fettling whatsover and I got an immediate seal and 55psi. All good so far and a pleasant and successful few hours in the garage, but you might sense that this was far from the end of the story.

I popped the spark plugs back in and poured water into the valve caps to test the seal around the plugs and to my horror I saw that is was worse than ever. I even started the engine and by revving it I could cause the water to be sprayed out like it was a wet whistle. ******. I spent hours taking the plugs out, swapping over the new valve caps, taking them in and out and trying to see what the problem was and eventually resorted to fitting a set of brand new plugs and ....... they sealed perfectly!

The engine now makes proper compression you can feel, it runs more quietly and certainly feels like it has more power although it has not stopped raining enough for me to want to take the car out for a proper test drive but it certainly won't be worse.

I'll admit to being a stingy git and not wanting to bin 8 otherwise perfectly good spark plugs, even though they only cost 1.50 each, but I gathered them all up and dumped them so I have a fresh start. I'd ordered 2 sets of Champion D21s which are hotter plugs (ie they dissipate the heat more slowly so they get hotter and burn off residue better) which arrived today. I called The Green Spark Plug Company and spoke with Tim, their plug guru, and he confirmed that the washers are easily damaged when used on a sealing face which is not totally square but for 1 I could buy 10 new ones or 4 copper ones. Good news, so I bought 40 steel and 20 copper ones Laughing as well as proper plug box spanner and some other goodies as a reward.

I'll admit to being a little peeved that I can't get 65psi on all 4 cylinders but it's a truism for really old cars that they get better with use so I'll check the compression after this weekends 140 miles day and see what the results are.

As ever, photos once I download them!

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rhinoman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I read of all these new discoveries I wonder how it ever ran at all.
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2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhinoman wrote:
When I read of all these new discoveries I wonder how it ever ran at all.


I suppose it can seem that way but really it's just part of the learning curve of running and maintaining an archaic engine. They are so simple and low stress and compression, modern engines can make 200psi, even 1970s cars should make 170+, that they will run with settings way out, almost no compression and oil leaking everywhere. All that's needed is fuel, air and spark and not even much of each! I had this one running with way too much air (slow flow) massively over fuelled and with barely a spark. Sure, it didn't drive anywhere, but it ran. Getting it spot on, oddly, doesn't make it faster, it simply means it pulls better up hills and uses less fuel.

When I got the engine rebuilt, exactly a year ago, it was making great compression on the starting handle but the carburation was massively out. Part of the process or sorting that out involved checking the plugs to see how the combustion was changing which, it turns out, was wrecking the crush washers on the spark plugs. I didn't know that the valve caps didn't leave a flat mating surface for the plugs so after taking them out 3 or 4 times they were all but knackered. By coincidence, the only rally left last year was the VCC main event and I'd fitted the new, hotter, D21 plugs and didn't remove them!

6 months later and I've forgotton what the engine should feel like as I turn it over, I've taken the plugs out a few times to check stuff and there we have it! This shouldn't be a problem again now I know.

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gadgetboy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always found with older engines the less fiddling you do the better.

My business partner's father was an atrocious fiddler. I can't count how many internal combustion devices have been discarded only to find that the reason for the failure was excessive fiddling. Removing cylinder heads for no reason type fiddling and torquing spark plugs until sweat appeared on the brow accompanied by a "NNNRRRFFFF" sound - yes, that tight! Engine discarded a month later because the "they don't make them like they used to" spark plug snapped leaving the threaded portion in the head.

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RichardD
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

absolutely, but fettling is different from fiddling, and it depends on whether you actually know enough not to be dangerous. Opinions vary as to my level Shocked Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D'you know- I really need to put an hour or 2 aside and read this thread Cool
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gadgetboy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should. It is both entertaining and educational.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a wee idea this morning. As I've taken a few days of work I had the morning to take a few wee videos of the car and upload them to youtube. The last one is a 5 minute video of me starting the car from cold ... yes, it takes 5 minutes to get it started!!


Link



Link



Link



Link



Link



Link



Link



Link



Link



Link

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