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Alternator emergency

 
 
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ahorton
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Odometer: 243
Location: Western Australia


1988 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Alternator emergency Reply with quote

Hi all,

I haven't been around for a while but an alternator emergency has brought me back!

I had to weld up a few exhaust holes recently so I disconnected the big pink wires at the back of the alternator along with a 2-wire plug, also coming out of the alternator.

I disconnected the battery.

Having finished the job I put it all back together and now my battery isn't charging.

Any ideas what I did wrong?

I've welded to the car this way before without problems.



The only other thing I can think of that might be an issue is that a bit of water probably got in whwn the bonnet was off and it rained. Not actually submerged though and I'm sure it can survive a bit of a splash given what some people drive though normally.

Thanks in advance for any help.

I have 24 hours before leaving on a long Christmas trip so any suggestions are welcome.

__________________________________
88 Lada Niva 1600 Weber Carb with pretty paint job.
94 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces
93 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces

Not got MTs. Got nice smooth sand tyres!
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danno83
Just got MTs


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Odometer: 146
Location: Brisvegas, sunshine state.



PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

have you checked the brushes? I had a similar issue with mine not long back.
__________________________________
peugeot 406 wagon,
Niva 1989 Cabriolet (undergone full rebuild, and absolutely fantastic.)
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nivaman
Articulating


Joined: 24 May 2006
Odometer: 929
Location: New Zealand



PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brushes, bearings, Smile
__________________________________
Lada a little car that takes you far.
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brack1936
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Odometer: 121
Location: Australia



PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was absolutely baffled when my battery wasn't charging once. There is a relay on the right side of the engine bay which a couple of wires had fallen off. That was the problem!
__________________________________
Someday I'll think of something to write here.
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ahorton
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Odometer: 243
Location: Western Australia


1988 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, brushes and bearings sound like I'm actually going to have to get the thing out of the car.

Can do, but not before I have to go away.

Sounds like I'll be charging the battery tonight and driving 300km without headlights or radio.

Then when I get there I might be able to get it out and have a look at it.


I don't suppose anyone could have a guess at why it suddenly stopped working? Seems too unlikely to me that the brushes or bearings just happened to give up the same afternoon I did some welding.

__________________________________
88 Lada Niva 1600 Weber Carb with pretty paint job.
94 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces
93 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces

Not got MTs. Got nice smooth sand tyres!
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gadgetboy
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Odometer: 1947
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland



PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the small connector. It's possible to put it in the hole but it's not actually connected.
__________________________________
Move along. Nothing to see here.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had similar with mine after some work when I disturbed one of the connections, which caused the charge warning light on the dash to stay on. Eventually found the loose connection and re-made it. Can't actually remember which one, or where, but that's probably what you've done as well.
Regards,
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half
Winch Assistant


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Odometer: 72
Location: Palmerston north NZ



PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: electrics Reply with quote

Nothing new there . The electrical connexions on ladas are know for failing for some stupid reason, I did a big replacement job on mine and used good quality spades and plugs.
It seems that muck metal corrodes and then you lose power.
That is a real weak point on the truck
What made me decide to do something was my wipers, they would go one day and not the next ,soIreplaced the connexions and all good, so I slowly went through the truck replacing them. I would start with the charging system
One thing that failed on mine was the voltage regulator, so I fitted an electronic one one to the top of the guard, [They are a lada part]
above the jack, all good
I have been caught, playing with the alternator and burned the wires on the exhaust. that stopped the charge real quick, and it did not take long.
Whats that funny smell ????
Also the small wire that fits on the solenoid on the block side of the alternator could have fallen off. That is the power wire to excite the alty to start the charge process. They are a mission to get to without the aly loose but a good pair of longnose could get it from the bottom
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ahorton
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Odometer: 243
Location: Western Australia


1988 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for replies.

I had triple checked all my connections but still no luck. So I ripped the thing out and got it apart. One of the brushes is almost non existant, so I'll replace the whole thing.

__________________________________
88 Lada Niva 1600 Weber Carb with pretty paint job.
94 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces
93 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces

Not got MTs. Got nice smooth sand tyres!
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half
Winch Assistant


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Odometer: 72
Location: Palmerston north NZ



PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:31 am    Post subject: alternator repair Reply with quote

You local auto sparky should be able to do it up or you can buy brushes and do it yourself.
The lada one only puts out about 55a so if you wanted you could upgrade it, I,m not sure off the top of my head what the upgrade is but I,m sure some member has done this and can point you in the right direction . I have a full set of manauls on PDF format if you need them
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ahorton
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Odometer: 243
Location: Western Australia


1988 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This info might be useful to others:

I managed 230km over 3 hours today without an alternator. I arrived at my destination without seeing any signs of a dieing battery but I don't know how much longer it has got left in it.


Since I wasn't sure how far I'd get, I had 3 spares in the back. 1 good one and 2 old dodgy ones, all charged up.

__________________________________
88 Lada Niva 1600 Weber Carb with pretty paint job.
94 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces
93 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces

Not got MTs. Got nice smooth sand tyres!
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LukeHooper1982
Just got MTs


Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Odometer: 261




PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's hilarious, I've been there many times before. Exact same crap!

Anyways, if you're in North America, like me (Ontario, Canada) get the champion V belt alternator from Part Source / Canadian tire. It's about 80A I think. MAYBE 100.

Apparently in the UK and elsewhere in EU you can get old (new defective) vw passat V belt altys with squeaky rear bearings that put out 200A with 2 stage windings. Make sure you're in mid range revs when you kick in that 2nd winding or it'll likely stall your ride!

I've burnt my main power wires on my exhaust manifold, ripped out wires, broken connections on the alternator, had wires come unplugged... I've done it all! Drive safe!
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LukeHooper1982
Just got MTs


Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Odometer: 261




PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=28466
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ahorton
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Odometer: 243
Location: Western Australia


1988 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reaching 300km and more than 10 electric starts I decided to charge up the battery. It was still going strong and had no trouble starting the car.

I love having a simple car.

__________________________________
88 Lada Niva 1600 Weber Carb with pretty paint job.
94 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces
93 Lada Niva 1600 Carb in bits and pieces

Not got MTs. Got nice smooth sand tyres!
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Giovanni
Just got MTs


Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Odometer: 438
Location: Enderley,Hamilton,North Island,New Zealand,South Pacific.


1988 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all when it arrives.


ahorton ,
First of all check that the fan belt that drives the alternator is not missing,worn out,slipping and or loose.
With the ignition switch turned on check for any blown fuses.
If your charging system is internally voltage regulated check all the charging wiring is in place and terminated.Is there battery supply top the alternator,thick pink wire?

There are basically two types of charging systems,internally and externally regulated.

Generally speaking internally regulated systems require the charging lamp to excite the alternator to get it charging.
With the ignition switch on,with out the engine running,if there is no charge warning lamp showing up on the instrument cluster the alternator will not charge.
At the alternator you should have two small wires,warning lamp plus a voltage sensor wire,in a moulded 2 pin plug.There should also be a seperat thick battery supply wire.


With externally regulated systems,check for ignition supply voltage to the voltage regulator.If none check your fuses.Once you have ignition supply at the regulator test for voltage at the alternator field terminal,the one that connects to the alternator brush box.If there is you have a possible fault in the alternator,worn brushes and or rotor slip ring/s and or open circuit rotor.

Let us know what you found at fault.

p.s.
One year following a Rally of NZ special stage up the far north , I drove 300km back to Hamilton at night time,with no alternator charging and only one right hand head lamp,one right hand tail light and intermitent wiper use. Shocked

__________________________________
"Make love to a Niva owner.We need more of them,OVER!"

73 de 41-HN3800 / CEF-195 / SAS-1173 / ZL1PO / ZMT5152
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rossjools
Gate Opener


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Odometer: 42
Location: Newcastle, Australia



PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy G'day ahorton,
My 1997 Niva 1.7i came with a Holden Bosch 55A alternator that a previous owner had had fitted. You do have to modify the mounting bracket a bit but this is a more reliable alternator than the standard Niva unit. This can also be upgraded with an 80A stator. This mod just replaces the star wound standard part with a delta wound one. The rest of the alternator remains the same. These units can be obtained from Ashdowns or Ingrams for a reasonable cost, although it's about 20 years since I did this mod to my old Commodore's alternator. This can be done to either an internal regulator type or an external type.

Personally I prefer the internal reg type but each to his own. If you decide to do this I can help with the technical side of the mod. In fact, I had to replace the 55A unit with the alternator from my old VB and so it's now an 80A job. Nothing wrong with the unit it came with, just snapped the adjusting bolt while I was replacing a fan belt so I just pulled the old spare unit off the shelf and fitted it. It is important to use a 55A alternator as the smaller rated ones have a smaller rotor (as in shorter with fewer windings)

Cheers,
Ross.
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edmands_3
Gate Opener


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Odometer: 22
Location: Perth, Australia



PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahorton wrote:
After reaching 300km and more than 10 electric starts I decided to charge up the battery. It was still going strong and had no trouble starting the car.

I love having a simple car.


You can pretty much drive as far as you want on an older car with the charging circuit not working as you don't normally use any power from the battery. The only times you use power is starting and lights, indicators etc.

I have an alternator you can have for $20 if that's the problem. It is still in a Lada at the moment, so I guess it is a standard one, but I am not sure.
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rossjools
Gate Opener


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Odometer: 42
Location: Newcastle, Australia



PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy G'day edmonds_3,
This is not quite true, almost but not quite. With a petrol engined vehicle you have to have ignition which draws its power from the battery during starting and from the alternator once the engine starts. With normal points type system that's about 3 amps at idle and increasing as the revs increase. With a high energy electronic system it's about 7 amps at idle and increasing as revs increase.

Cheers,
Ross.
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edmands_3
Gate Opener


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Odometer: 22
Location: Perth, Australia



PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rossjools wrote:
Very Happy G'day edmonds_3,
This is not quite true, almost but not quite. With a petrol engined vehicle you have to have ignition which draws its power from the battery during starting and from the alternator once the engine starts. With normal points type system that's about 3 amps at idle and increasing as the revs increase. With a high energy electronic system it's about 7 amps at idle and increasing as revs increase.

Cheers,
Ross.


Good point, I forgot about that. I have been spending too much time with diesels Smile
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