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Cheap winches

 
 
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nivapilot
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Cheap winches Reply with quote

Right. I know it's my own fault. I bought a cheap? winch off of e-blag, and well to be honest it was great...I didn't need it to use all day every day...and when it came to get me mobile again, it did the buisness.

Managed to pull a luton transit, sideways across a dirt driveway, pulled a van up an incline of 40degreees for a distance of 200yds, pulled a few stumps out, quite large ones, and then it packs up pulling a small bush out of the ground.....well to be perfectly honest it pulled the bush out a treat...but when I let the cable out to release the hook, it went bang and refused to power in or out again.

Well I finally pulled it off and apart today and found the brake mechanism? all in pieces in the drum. bolts had come off, so a good clean up, re seal and put back together, should see me through another two years...
Laughing

Wonder what colour to paint it?
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shaggy
Articulating


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Odometer: 560
Location: Manchester, UK


1961 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 404 Doka

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto, just took ours apart yesterday

The "cog" of top should be pressed into the obvious place in the planet carrier. I bought it repaired, and I suspect it wasn't pushed in properly. I am half tempted to weld it.

Does your brake look like this


Very strange thing - I assume it must be the brake.

jim

__________________________________
Bright Orange Unimog 404 DoKa
www.foodfight.org.uk/mog
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nivapilot
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine looks exactly like that, except mine is in three separate parts now.

Ordered the new bolts for it though and they should be here pretty quick, then rebuild, pump full of grease and re mount.
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nivapilot
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! what fantastic service... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Ordered bolts yesterday, they arrived in this mornings post...well chuffed.

Now all I need to do is rebuild and refit. Shall be using plenty of grease in the gearbox this time to try and stop the water coming in. Although the gearcase end is sealable, the drum ends aren't, they only have a plastic washer and it doesn't seal it.
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Roger
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2050
Location: Redditch Worcestershire



PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bearings at each end of the drum on a Warn are simple plastic rings ans as such are not water proof. To at least try to improve this situation, I drilled the two flanges to take grease nipples with small bore brass tubes long enough to reach through the plastic bearings. A quick squirt before a laning trip and I stand a chance of keeping the water out. Another idea is to fit a suitable rubber "O" ring at each end but note that if they work the downside is they make pulling the cable out more difficult due to the drag from the rings.
Nothing is ever that easy!

Roger
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nivapilot
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plastic/nylon rings on my cheapy winch as well Roger.
Just come back from the shed, I was looking at them thinking "what could be done here" and now you have just given me a couple of ideas....thanks mate... Wink

I was thinking of a couple of leather washers, and then wondered if they might be "picked up" by the drum and jam it up?

Only thing was, I was surprised at how little water residue was in the motor, but the grease in the gearbox has deffo been contaminated, I intend to fill the box up with grease when I rebuild.
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Nathaniel
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use waterproof grease such as that used on Outboard motors.

I think DIFFLOCK sells some, deffo worth the investment, perfect for front wheel bearings too.

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Nat

If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out
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Roger
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2050
Location: Redditch Worcestershire



PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's be realistic, the basic design of the Warn is crap. My motor gave up from corrosion caused by water and that was after sealing it with RTV etc. I bought a cheapo motor for £85 and the unplated brush holders rusted and locked the brushes solid!
The drum brake needs regular servicing and the g/box lets water in because the drive shaft can't be sealed properly. All in all a poor job from a company that considers itself to be the best.
I bought a Champion winch but had to take it back because it was too long to go between the chassis rails.
Leather seals, even if greased may not work, because the leather wont squash down like rubber. If you prove me wrong, please let me know.

Roger
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nivapilot
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hoorah! winch rebuilt.
Motor brushes freed off, rebuilt and sealed with silicon.
Gearbox cleaned and rebuilt, full of waterproof grease, courtesy of the local boat chandlers, everything filled with grease and silicon sealed.
All I need to do now is refit and test.
Not too bad for a cheap winch and not touched for two years.

Sounds like my winch might be about the same design as a Warn then Roger?
Plastic bearings and unplated brush holders, I cleaned them up with a file and "painted" them with some of the waterproof grease, should hold the rust at bay for a while, and stop them siezing up?
Decided against using a sealing ring between the drum and outer housings, I am just going to rely on the grease I have filled it with.
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nivapilot
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have now been reviewing the winch before fitting back on the car.



my brake? looks like above and has a roller pin mounted in the groove, there are three grooves and pins.
How and when do they operate?
The centre section of the unit rotates about 5deg, and I assume the pins jam onto the inside of the drum? The motor drives one end and a hexagonal shaft transfers power through the drum to the gearbox, mounted on the opposite end.
Would, or should I have mounted the brake unit greased or dry? Sprayed with a bit of silicon spray lube?
When I stripped the unit down it was partially seized with rust, since been cleaned up.
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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3350
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am looking at buying the 'goodwinch TDS12 Goldfish winch' to replace the sad old X6 I finished off at the weekend. (Yet to pull it apart for a smell test). Relatively speaking the goldfish is a cheap winch, so I thought best to post in this thread.

Has anyone any expirience of these units? Its to do challenge events mounted on the rear, so it will have a sedate life compared to the front winch Very Happy

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Anthony BathMat Rushton
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Odometer: 3749
Location: Wigan Near Manc



PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its the same winch as a champion tds
and also a come up winch i believe

__________________________________
D6 - Remember Folks, It Takes 8 Hours To Take A Front Diff Out On A 90...The Engine Has To Come Out As Well!
D8 - Skinny Dipping At D8 - Chief ****-Inist!
D9 I Pulled Pussy At D9
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shaggy
Articulating


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Odometer: 560
Location: Manchester, UK


1961 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 404 Doka

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nivapilot wrote:

How and when do they operate?
Would, or should I have mounted the brake unit greased or dry?

It's an overrun brake. There's a bit of slack between the two parts, if the motor is turning the drum, then the middle bit is turning in the "easy direction", if the drum is trying to turn the motor, it takes up that bit of slack, rolling the pins out against the drum - the "ramped bits".

Kinda hard to explain!

Ours was a bit wet with grease when we reassembled it, but is working fine now. I can't imagine a bit of grease doing much good as the rollers are crushed into the drum.

jim

__________________________________
Bright Orange Unimog 404 DoKa
www.foodfight.org.uk/mog
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jeepmadmike
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 May 2005
Odometer: 4573
Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon



PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've just bought a goodwinch TDS for my new trailer, its ok but has typical "far eastern engineering" ie it needs stripping and assembling by someone with skill. solenoid pack is a albright copy, but again badly assembled (the seal was hanging out of the side) all the electrical connections needed remaking.

but as all winches apear to be made in china theres not much option, at least if you buy a goodwinch you will have a man to help you with bits in the future.

My old X9's are still going strong, the one which gets most use has never been apart!

__________________________________
Land Rovers are the root of all evil!

Now i have gone and bought a D4!

one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy.
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madmole
Articulating


Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Odometer: 615
Location: Surrey


2001 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one of the cheap 12 tonne radio controlled £250 winches. So far its been dunked and muddied repeatedly and has worked longer and better than the very expensive WARN 8000 it replaced

It is better made, has water seals internally and even the solenoid is waterproof

ALL the winches are made in china, for the price of this one I could afford to bin it a replace it every year and it would still work out cheaper than the less powerful warn

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Disco II TD5, modified a bit! dented a bit more!!
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lift man
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Odometer: 2200
Location: glasgow


1994 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just fitted a goodwinch on the landcruiser,seems to perform ok,
i have a warn on the front of the vitara which is starting to run slow after a year.

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liftman@scottishmudcub.com
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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3350
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. Very Happy
I did scare myself by looking at the big Warn 8427, as a refrence price and its as much money as the type 'R' milemarker/pump/clutch that we have on the front! And we did consider a standard milemarker as a second winch, but the split charge gear only went in the other week, and the redundancy of a totally seperate system still holds true.
So I hope to pop an order in for a goldfish TDS1200 with dynamee conversion this morning. Buying a winch off 'the man' is certainly a selling point. So much stuff now is 'seller unavailable' as oposed th eold 'buyer beware'. I like some product backup Very Happy

Looks like the job for the weekend is; pull old winch, sniff test/inspect the motor, cut home-made rollers off the back, as they are going to kill a plasma rope Very Happy


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BlackJim
Gate Opener


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Odometer: 48
Location: North Yorkshire UK



PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having difficulty identifying which "cheap winches off Eblag" you are talking about.

Is there some distinguishing feature other than cheapness and being on Ebay that would help me spot a good en?

Thanks

BJ
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madmole
Articulating


Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Odometer: 615
Location: Surrey


2001 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the cheap radio controlled £250 12 tonne winches are the same, no matter who sells them and what labels they have on them. They all come from the same factory

Which is exactly the same factory that half of the "Branded" manufacturers get their low end winches from, stick stickers on them and triple the price

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Disco II TD5, modified a bit! dented a bit more!!
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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3350
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except with this one I can ring someone up and go "do me bits". Confused I hope............

It's imposible to tell what quality of cogs or motor have gone into it. And I suspect you can say what you want in the casing when you order two hundred. The company on the paper work is 'Kingone Winches'.

I mean it could be crap, but if David Bowyer sells it, and Difflock advertise it, I've got to be in with half a chance at a sucesful 'low end winch'?
With a rangy based buggy on a challenge event we'll soon know Very Happy

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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3350
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting there Very Happy



We need to sort the rear fairlead out next. Terry Winch Man is machining some ally rollers!

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madmole
Articulating


Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Odometer: 615
Location: Surrey


2001 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kingone is also the make of my el cheapo one
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